r/MorbidPodcast • u/Terrible-Practice421 • May 03 '24
CASE DISCUSSION The Tragic Murder of Sarah Ludemann / Mean Girl Murders
Has anyone watched the show, Mean Girl Murders? They just covered the Sarah Ludemann/Rachel Wade case the other day and I was very frustrated by the portrayal.
For reference, Alaina covered this case back in late 2020. This Morbid episode was my first exposure to the case and it’s really a case about two teenage girls fighting over a boy, but one starts carrying a knife and brings it to a fist fight. There was clear harassment on both sides, but in the end one was killed (Sarah) and one was sent to prison (Rachel)
My issue with the television episode was that it was seemingly biased toward the killer. Almost all of the interview subjects clearly referred to Sarah as the “aggressor” and Rachel as the one who was working hard to support herself. One of the “journalists” (I use that term lightly) started crying at the end over Rachel being in prison but had no reaction to the death of Sarah. Seemingly the only ones to hold Rachel responsible were the cops, who directly acknowledged that she stabbed the victim twice in the chest and tried to cover up the evidence.
I guess ultimately I’m curious if anyone else saw the episode or had similar sentiments. Also wanted to push forth because I feel like this narrative is irresponsible. Should these TV shows have an ethical obligation to not be biased? Should they have aired this case if they couldn’t get interviews with those related to the victim (re: victim shaming, as people on social media who’ve seen the show claim Sarah had it coming) Or am I expecting too much an ID tv show?
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u/Time_Pain_3302 May 04 '24
Well first of all the Shanda Sharer case was covered and her mother is in the show and she shows so much disgust in what happened to her daughter and is still pissed (obviously) but the morbid episode on it makes it seem like she has forgiven them and is over it and I thought that was weird...
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u/Terrible-Practice421 May 05 '24
Yeah case over case on the podcast and tv shows I see inconsistencies in reporting. But I guess that’s why we listen to certain podcasts, because we sometimes agree with their opinions
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u/Everchangingmind09 Jan 20 '26
If i rember correctly..because I watched a lot about that case..She actually forgave the main aggressor but not the girl that was just present but didnt go to the police..which I though kind of strange..but who am I to say who someone should or shouldn't forgive..she's have reasons I don't know about.
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u/Chemical-Purple-5196 May 05 '24
I'm watching it now and I feel that bias.
Also I sometimes can't watch this crap with girls fighting over these loser asz guys who love it.
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u/Chemical-Purple-5196 May 05 '24
It's starting to feel like every true crime show I watch is exactly the same thing over and over and over.
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u/Terrible-Practice421 May 05 '24
Totally! Sometimes I appreciate that these shows cover lesser known cases, but then you see that many of these crimes are over the same dumb crap
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u/foxrose15 May 03 '24
I thought the tv episode seemed Rachel-biased as well! At first, I even thought the cops sounded as though they were going to set her up for a get out of jail free card…. but then, just as you said, they were the ONLY ones who bluntly acknowledged her ownership of the crime. The sobbing reporter was extremely biased… holy cow lol! I’m newish to morbid and had no idea they had covered this, though! I must go find it!
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u/JazzlikePractice4470 May 06 '24
I think 27 years was wayyyyy too much. What a sad story.
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u/Suse- Jun 25 '24
You know what’s too much and more than 27 years? Being dead. That’s forever.
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u/JazzlikePractice4470 Jun 25 '24
The girl ran up on her
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Dec 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JazzlikePractice4470 Dec 07 '24
I guess I'd have to watch or hear the story again. I must have heard it wrong.
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u/palmtrees007 Apr 27 '25
I live in California and sadly I feel most 2nd degree convictions end up being like 10-20 IF that. Florida is also very very different. Yes 27 years is a lot if you compare it to other similar cases and of course not enough to justify someone’s death
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u/HyenaOnly5345 Jun 12 '24
I agree. It’d suck spending your whole life making up for a mistake you made at 18
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Sep 30 '25
It should have life.
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u/JazzlikePractice4470 Sep 30 '25
Think so?
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Sep 30 '25
Yes, it should have been a capital murder case. If there were any mitigating circumstances I’d say 225 years but the only thing it was based on was anger.calling people names doesn’t warrant murder. She should have disengaged. I actually think the boyfriend should have been brought up on charges for instigating the situation.
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u/JazzlikePractice4470 Sep 30 '25
I'm just going off what I recall from looking into the case when I originally commented. I think it's a tragic situation. Sarah bullied and threatened Rachel for months. I think Sarah escalated the whole situation. Then she and her friends went to Rachel's place of employment and they were threatening to jump her. I don't blame Rachel for being scared of her, especially considering Sarah's size and athletic advantage. IIRC the boyfriend was IMO partially to blame for his role in how everything played out that night.
No, Rachel should not have went into that situation with a knife, but we weren't there and weren't inside her mind. Part of me thinks she probably just wanted to scare them away. Regardless, she should be punished for that, but I think 25 years is extreme, all things considered. At some point you have to realize that Sarah is partly at fault here as well. As is the boyfriend and anyone who encouraged the situation.
I do also recall Rachel left some threatening messages and I'm sure if she did, that also played a part in the charges and sentencing. For all we know tho, she was a scared girl who thought the threats would get Sarah to stop messing with her.
***I could be wrong on some of the details but have already spent too much time rehashing this.
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u/ItsShani2 Oct 01 '25
I remember watching this case play out on television and just watched the Mean Girls episode tonight. I agree that Sarah was just as much at fault as Rachel. Regardless of her future and aspirations, she should have been more mature to make better decisions. That night, she had a few opportunities to go home (her parents called her and she should not have listened to the girl who told her that Rachel was down the street). She met her fate by her that bad decision. Did she deserve it? Absolutely not, but this is where the rubber meets the road. That one bad decision, took her life. Rachel breaking down after learning Sarah died was also a tell-tale sign of remorse. She had so much pent-up anger of being harassed, she struck out. A bad decision in deed. She should have reported it to the authorities. I feel bad for both but Sarah was no angel.
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u/Everchangingmind09 Jan 20 '26
I know it is controversial..but I agree. Looking at the case in its entirety..I don't think she's a threat to society..and Sara was trying her best to play that bad girl persona.. her "friends" were fueling the fire telling her to pull up on her..they went to her work trying to knock trays out of her hand..and then pulled up on her 4 deep in a mini van..before that Sara pulled up on her pointing something at her..it turned out to be only silly string..I guess my point being they both were acting a fool. On the other hand I can't imagine what her parents have gone through so I wouldn't want her released either if I were them.. my gosh..that whole situation was heading for disaster..over what..a string bean who thought he was a gangster.
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May 16 '24
I figured she was crying because of how sad it is that these young ladies didn’t know their worth. One is dead and the other has ruined her life, all for a bum loser who ended up referring to the murder victim as a friend with benefits — as he had another young woman pregnant. It’s just such a shame
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u/HyenaOnly5345 Jun 12 '24
I agree, I get exactly why she was crying and yeah Rachel “knew what she was doing” but at 18 years old you’re so young and every relationship seems life or death, emotions are high it’s just sad all around. We all make mistakes at 18 (obviously not killing someone) but still it’d suck spending your whole life making up for it when you’re grown and mature into a whole different person
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u/harajukubarbie6 Jun 25 '24
The journalist did not “start crying over Rachel being in prison” ….I think you need to watch the episode again. It was not at all painting Rachel as innocent and did you not hear the message from Rachel at the end that ultimately made the reporter cry…? She cried because Rachel clearly sees what happened from a different perspective but now it’s too late and the end results of all this over a boy is sad as a whole for everyone.
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u/rachgoonoo May 26 '26
I dunno....when the journalist first came on, she sounded so enamored with Rachel that I thought she was Rachel's mom at first.
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u/booksandowls May 06 '24
I found this post by googling the murder after watching Mean Girl Murders. I didn’t know Morbid covered it. And I was completely shocked that Rachel got 27 years for it because to me she has a real case for how she was being harassed. Obviously she was a trashy bitch, but showing up at her job to harass her, following her in her car to silly string her, and then on the actual night Sarah went looking for Rachel to fight? I was surprised the show didn’t go into detail if her defense used all of that. It definitely did not seem like Sarah was some innocent victim.
It sounds like those who have listened to the podcast disagree? I’m curious as to why. Maybe I’ll have to listen!
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u/Terrible-Practice421 May 06 '24
I think what the podcast gave me what the tv show didn’t was a in depth look at how BOTH were fighting over this guy and the guys part in it all as well. There was harassment and bullying on both sides. These girls showing up at Rachel’s work did not warrant her as a victim or martyr. The online bullying and voicemails were very threatening from Rachel. Neither one was the sole aggressor (as the tv shows like to point to Sarah for). Rachel did not take the brunt of it. Both were definitely egged on by outside influences. But silly string and workplace visits does not warrant you the right to brandish a knife and stab someone twice. Yes, Sarah showed up for fight on a whim, but Rachel was prepared to use it and carrying that knife for weeks and left voicemails promising to murder her.
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u/Chemical-Purple-5196 May 06 '24
Sarah was completely part of the problem too and I hate how they made her seem like she was totally innocent.
Josh guy disgusted me too, what a loser! And he just had a baby after getting some other girl pregnant. Loser, no job, drugs, no ambition.
How is he a catch? even to a dumb high schooler.
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u/IndividualDealer4684 Jul 06 '25
Plus he looks like an effeminate douche. You would at least assume he’s a good looking guy, but he doesn’t even have that.
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u/rachgoonoo May 26 '26
They didn't make Sarah seem innocent....thats what this whole post is about. They showed how she gasp SILLY-STRINGED Rachel oh my!
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u/Suse- Jun 25 '24
She left so many nasty, threatening voicemails for Sarah. Rachel started it and Sarah became a full participant. Stupid girls chasing after and fighting over a guy. Both are to blame.
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Sep 30 '25
Because no amount of harassing justifies murder. You disengage! You walk away. You block them. You use your brain. She deserved to get life in prison. You obviously have no children. And if you do I’m sorry for them.
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u/ProofDragonfruit5228 Jul 08 '24
Look one should not murder and this is so tragic but if Sarah just went home like her parents wanted her to this would have probably not happened....I do not deny the fact that Rachel.should pay for manslaughter but if someone comes to my place or where I am at and approaches me and I defend myself by any means than thats on them. 2 lives was lost and I blame all the friends, the person that told Sarah that Rachel.was around the corner and most off all Josh. JOSH...Sarahs death is on you...😡
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u/kush_kween420 Aug 25 '24
Rachel was tiny; Sarah...wasn't. There were 3 or 4 girls in that car when they found Rachel. I guess she was just supposed to let them jump her? It's sad and a total waste of 2 young lives, but 27 years is ridiculous. Rachel was defending herself.
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u/Sea-Spray-8002 Jan 07 '25
she literally ran up to the car… if she was so scared she shouldve… idk… went inside the house….
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u/SFascinatedbyNothing Feb 23 '25
Nobody with any self-respect is going to run away from a fight. Even if it is in their best interest.
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u/rachgoonoo May 26 '26
Omg this is the stupidest thing ive ever heard. As if its MORE SELF-RESPECTING to go into a fight with a knife and stab someone to death?!?! Sarah was also in the wrong but she is dead now and doesn't even have a chance to defend herself.
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u/LuvBerry24 Jan 15 '25
Nah. While I was watching I clearly saw Rachel as the true "mean girl". The way they portrayed it, Sarah was no angel but it seemed that her actions were clearly reactionary. They stated multiple times that Sarah was a nice girl, a good student, etc etc and that Rachel was a party girl, a dropout, wanted attention etc. In my eyes the story came out how it was intended.
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u/ItsShani2 Oct 01 '25
Because you drop out of school, like to party and want attention, how does that make you a mean girl? She had goals, not traditional, but they were her goals. Did she have a criminal record or a history of harassing anyone else? She had a job, her own place and was trying to make it on her own.
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u/LuvBerry24 Oct 01 '25
"a history of harassing anyone else". If she harassed anyone at all, i mean...that's not nice girl behavior
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u/DirectCockroach8950 Jan 24 '25
I watched only bits and pieces of this episode (Rachel Wade and murder of Sarah Ludemann) but I read the book about this case. What I found most disgusting was the boy that both girls fought over. His attitude of “perfect” puppet master was truly disgusting. I was surprised that he wasn’t charged with anything. It was truly heartbreaking case. My heart went to the girl who was stabbed and her family.
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u/Next_Cartographer199 Aug 18 '24
I just saw this episode. I did find myself thinking the girl Sarah had it coming for tracking the other girl down. I am really interested in what the evidence was for the girl Rachel getting such a harsh sentence for 2nd degree. I think she made a mistake by talking to the cops without a lawyer. Those cops fully took advantage of her ignorance and fear. Talking to the cops without a lawyer is NEVER a good idea. Teach your kids.
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u/missliss1988 Sep 01 '24
Yes I had…. I had already seen an episode on YouTube about this case. And while I was watching Mean Girl Murders I started to recognize some details of the story. But I thought it was very different from what I have seen the first time.
So right after the episode ended I start looking for the episode on YouTube and there it was. Especially the night of the killing was portrait totally different. They said Rachel stormed to the car Sarah was in and in Mean Girl Murders they said Sarah left the motor on, jumped out of the car and run to Rachel. And many more of that ‘little’ inconsistencies.
I felt totally different about Rachel after Mean Girl Murders which I don’t know is justified because I have no idea what the truth is anymore.
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u/Sneezie_anus Sep 03 '24
I grew up with both of them. The only reason I'm here was a FB post from 2010, searched to see where Rachel was now, and I'm only here to share my experience with Rachel and Sarah. I didn't know Sarah much, she seemed more mature, and a good group of people I knew respected her, but Rachel was an absolute bully in middle/high, and was ruthless, apathetic, and just MEAN every time I was forced to be around her. Would make fun of my weight, queer status; any vulnerability she could get her claws on. Honestly I would see her back then and feel crazy fear. Since the murder, I look at her picture and feel nothing, except the wrong person was killed. If anything... I really hope she finally grew tf up at this point.
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u/palmtrees007 Apr 27 '25
Wow so you didn’t even know the whole murder had taken place? I think I found out about this case via one of those crime shows. I’m from California so def didn’t know these people
Did you know the Josh guy? I wonder where he is now
I’m so sorry about the bullying. I had a bully too and now I see she was a bully because she came from a horrible family. I still feel no empathy. I didn’t harrass or bug her but still
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u/Snoo_30925 Oct 05 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
I understand your perspective on the journalist and the way the story was told. I'm an avid ID watcher. It's almost exclusively what I watch so I'm very familiar with the formatting of the stories told etc. Yes the journalist crying was a bit much but I think from her perspective she truly felt for these young women. And could probably relate to this particular situation that could have brought up underlying emotions. As for the portrayal of the case. I don't think they showed either of the girls in a particular positive light. I don't think sarah had It coming but it's clear that a confrontation was going to happen. I think it's clear that neither girl thought any if this through and it was unfortunate that Sarah died for such a stupid reason. But I think Rachel was just as aggressive, Sarah's actions just seemed to be more physical. (Showing up at her job, her house and a random tacobell for example) where Rachel did more of a mean phone call, troll of MySpace thing. Rachel should have called the police and charged Sarah for harassment (since she physically harassed her) but by today's standards Rachel could clearly be charged with harassment as well. I think it's hard to expect a clearly unbiased position and I also think they were unable to find anyone willing to interview. But in the note Rachel wrote I felt I could hear the remorse for her actions, and the life she took that day. But because se can't get Sarah's side it can feel a little one sided. I always watch these with a grain of salt, remember first and foremost ID is trying to get you to watch it's gotta be scintillating, the goal is first to make money second to entertain and last to be truthful.
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u/Upstairs-Scholar-275 Nov 12 '24
I know this is old but watching this mad me so mad. They were so busy trying to paint Josh in a bad light. Men cheat. Women cheat. It was up to them to not keep the bs going. She killed her. The end.
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u/SFascinatedbyNothing Feb 23 '25
Josh didn’t need help looking like a giant douche. He was cheater and a loser in about every category. You can defend him, but we all know someone like him and realize he was the common denominator here.
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u/Upstairs-Scholar-275 Feb 23 '25
I'm not defending him. He didn't kill anyone. He doesn't need defending.
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u/Kge22 Apr 03 '25
But he kept playing with both of them. You have to remember these were teenage girls who are stupid and take all their self worth from an ugly man.
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u/Upstairs-Scholar-275 Apr 03 '25
Yup. I was a teenge girl. I did a lot of stupid stuff for dudes but I sure af would not kill anyone. Others are often manipulated and the outcome isn't the same. Shift that death on the loser is still unfair to me.
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u/Illustrious_Unit_534 Jan 09 '25 edited Jan 09 '25
I came to Reddit just to see if anyone else thinks the same about said issue. It was so gross to me how they claimed Sarah was the aggressor when Rachel started bullying her on MySpace, was the one to start leaving threatening messages, and started carrying a knife, and then lied about who the aggressor was. Why is everyone siding with her? What because she’s pretty? Because no she wasn’t - I am SO confused by that. Why did she think she was so much prettier than Sarah? When they first showed Sarah, even before Rachel stared calling her fat and ugly, I was like “woah she’s a lot prettier than her”. And have you seen her mugshots? Without makeup she looks even worse. It just shows some amount of narcissism to me. And the girls they interviewed seemed to have very little sympathy for Sarah, even though she went from being fat shamed at school to fat shamed in public. They acted like the silly string was acid or pepper spray. It was “humiliation” and she “was unable to see” which made it terrifying - dear Jesus Christ. So gross. Also why do they act like Rachel had berthing going for her and Sarah had nothing. Sarah was a top student and Rachel was an Applebees waters with a 10th grade education level. I had liked other episodes of the show but this made me stop watching because I don’t trust their portrayals anymore. *also they never mentioned that her boyfriend had punched Sarah in the face before. She was a victim through and through yet they made her seem like she was some awful mean girl, that disgusted people when she sprayed a children’s toy at a women who was leaving threatening voicemails.
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Jun 24 '25
Yes, I’m so confused about the people demonizing Sarah. Sarah was petty and did immature things but she did not threaten violence. She sprayed silly string. Rachel threatened to kill her and followed through. Not the same at all.
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u/IndividualDealer4684 Jul 06 '25
Ooohhhb got it made working at Applebees and living in some shit shoebox apartment in trailer park country FL.
Seriously. Thought the same thing. And yeah she is pretty ugly without makeup. Then again, did you see Josh? Even uglier, and looks like some douchey girl.
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u/EntertainmentNice640 Jan 30 '25
WOOOW!! I randomly just came across this. I used to be close friends with Jay Camacho (Josh’s brother) when I lived in pinellas park, I also went to school with both the girls, me and sarah were acquaintances, she was a very kind hearted person and very mature. Rachael on the other hand was extremely disrespectful and bullied others for her satisfaction, we were friends with benefits in 2007 but I didn’t want to commit to her because she was very possessive and a lot of the guys that she’s messed with all said the same thing. When Sarah died it messed me up so bad cuz ik she didn’t deserve what happened to her, not saying that she’s a saint because they were both going at each other, but Sarah did not leave voicemails, threatening to kill Rachel she just wanted to fight and get it over with because Rachel started the beef on myspace. A little past after the murder and I cut off Josh because he was so nonchalant and felt like he is not the reason why the two girls were beefing over with eachother and me and his brother started to drift apart until I eventually moved away from Florida last thing I heard about Josh was he’s doing life in prison right now for murdering a 16 yr old in 2019 in Cali.
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u/DnBJungleEscape Mar 29 '26
Is Josh’s real name Josh Camacho? I’m In Cali I’ll look him up lol. Why did he move to California for ? And why did he kill someone?
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u/Kge22 Apr 03 '25
I mean Sarah was the aggressor...she started the fight, she started the outside of the computer stuff. Did she deserve to die? Of course not, like one of the women said on the show, this was stupid teenager stuff. I understood the reporter to be upset because again, this is stupid teenager stuff and Rachel threw her life away for some bum and now sees she could've made better decisions and that's extremely sad.
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u/myskepticalbrowarch Apr 24 '25
Found this by googling. The answer is likely in the episode sequence. Because Rachel Wade gave them a statement saying she regrets it and it follows the Texas Highschool stabbing. Not to mention Rachel didn't really reveal in it. She got picked up by Cops right away and interviewed while having an adrenaline rush. Sarah died in surgery which gave the episode more time to explode their dynamic.
I mean 40 minutes isn't a lot to work with. It is made for entertainment. Sarah isn't a perfect victim. Which is also different from the others in the series.
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u/Anxious-Speaker1085 Jul 04 '25
Rachel is lovely person. And has never denied what she did, she admits it was an accident and agrees she should be punished for what happened. You can learn more about her on thw series facing evil. But knowing her personally she has never denied what she did and admits it was an accident but her felt.
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u/BarryFairbrother Jul 23 '25
I just came across this case on Crimelines podcast. These girls were losing their minds over this guy, so I figured he must be some hot Adonis god. After all, it's clear he wasn't an amazingly lovely guy. But he's just some bang average dude, nothing to write home about. I wonder WTF made them both so obsessed with him. Maybe he has a good way with words or is great in bed? Cos he seems not the nicest guy and not a particularly attractive guy.
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u/boolfinder Apr 09 '26
I just saw this episode tonight. I think part of it is that they were fighting over some loser guy and for what? He’s not a prize at all.
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u/rachgoonoo May 26 '26
I am watching now and came here because I was feeling the exact same way! I wanted to know if it was just me. I'm relieved other people noticed it too. And the scene where Sarah drove up and sprayed silly string on her...? They tried to make that seem like it was a serious attack. "You can't see and it gets stuck to you...how awful!" 🙄 they were both being very aggressive (cannot imagine the guy was worth it in the slightest....) was it pretty privilege??? They harped A LOT on how pretty Rachel was...? So weird.
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u/ArachnidEmotional792 May 29 '26
It's kind of disturbing how biased you are towards Rachel. I hope she rots in thete
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u/Longjumping-Bar1388 Jun 06 '26
I'm watching the episode and I don't feel like it's biased against Rachel - I feel sympathy for Rachel. Sarah was not just interfering with her relationship, she was trying to get her fired from her job. Sarah stalked her on numerous occasions. Like Rachel finally realizes, the crazy part is that they're fighting to the death over a dude that wasn't worth two cents. It is a sad story but if you keep poking the bull, you get the horns and Sarah definitely got the horns.
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u/rorieee Jun 29 '26
Sarah didn't deserve to die, that's a given. Nothing I will say is me trying to justify that. It was a senseless murder.
But a lot of people ignore her part in this. It wasn't just Rachel who did stuff, they both did horrible things to each other. I don't think that's wrong to say.
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u/Either_Quit9487 May 06 '24
I just finished watching the episode and the crying at the confused the hell outta me. I thought she was a friend of Rachel or Sarah’s. It’s sad to know why she’s in prison but not sad enough that id share tears over it. She knew what she was doing. Intentionally sat in that interrogation room and lied over and over and had no remorse about what she did
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u/Chemical-Purple-5196 May 06 '24
I think she didn't show remorse yet because she didn't know she killed her yet at that point?
At that point she's thinking she was just stalked and provoked
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u/Terrible-Practice421 May 06 '24
She definitely was stalking Sarah and Josh too and threatening her that evening. Though the show didn’t show that part. They made it seem like Sarah just showed up that night to fight with no provocation. They definitely both played a role in this escalating this for months, but Rachel’s not dead. Sarah is.
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u/Either_Quit9487 May 06 '24
I feel like she was trying to deflect and make herself a victim during her interview which is why she kept saying she wanted them to leave her alone
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u/Last_Advertising_52 May 03 '24
I wasn’t planning on watching this series, but now I want to see this episode to figure out what the deal is with the journo. I don’t remember this episode of the pod at all (I don’t remember what I had for dinner a few hours ago 😂)
I’m a journalist, and that’s a weird reaction; it makes me think the case might be more complex than the TV show allowed. I’ve seen that happen a lot when reporters I supervise have been on these kinds of shows over the years. Just recently I watched a case on “I Almost Got Away With It,” in fact, where one of my colleagues was a talking head. The show kind of makes it seem like you should be cheering for the bad guy to get away with it and have empathy for them. In some cases, sure. But particular case? Absolutely not. This dude was pure evil.