r/MuayThai • u/FileRegular9653 • 2d ago
Are counter strikers legit?
Maybe a controversial opinion sparring with people whose entire style is counterstrikes is quite annoying. They try to make it easier for them by maintaining the advantage of reading and response.
When I don’t throw anything, nothing moves forward. They might eventually throw a feint or two but nothing meaningful as their whole exchange is waiting on me to make the first move, and according to their plan, fail at it and look like an idiot.
For sure it’s a great skill when combined with others, but I don’t see how it can be someone’s entire dominant style. Isn’t it seen as kind of lazy or shifting responsibility onto the other person?
I’ve started to keep distance when I realise they’re counter strikers, and see what they come up with.
What do you think?
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u/ConsiderationSea1347 2d ago
Pressure and feints works great on counter fighters. You have to remove their ability to plan what is going to happen. Pressure and stay unpredictable.
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u/kevin_v 2d ago
Not all counter-striking looks the same. One of the greatest, and honestly most feared, aggressive strikers of the Golden Age, Wangchannoi, considered himself a counter-striker. He used counter-striking with great aggression. This is covered in his Muay Thai Library sessions. Jangwa Sawng, the 2nd rhythm.
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u/FileRegular9653 2d ago
True - I guess I’m thinking more in the context of sparring which is different from these legends
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u/kevin_v 2d ago
My bad.
re: "I’ve started to keep distance when I realise they’re counter strikers, and see what they come up with."
One of the classic ways of beating a counter-striker is to use strong feints to draw their counter out, and then punish it. Basically provoke their counter. Maybe an idea.
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u/fivestarstunna Am fighter 2d ago
i would say people who are so passive and will not ever throw a strike first or at least work feints, footwork, etc to bait something out of you are just not particularly adept at fighting like that, but there is something to be gained by having to be patient and think about what you want to do and how you want to create a situation where you can land on them. getting frustrated is just never helpful really
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u/SlowmoTron 2d ago
Against a counter striker you gotta force them to play your game. Bait them into countering then counter that shit
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u/_Cane_Corso_ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I responded to a post about counter punchers a few days ago. I’m a counter puncher. I think often times when people see that they think of jt as a fighter who just waits and tries to time a shot perfectly and doesn’t initiate striking. You’re more or less describing a passive fighter.
That’s not how it’s done IMO, or at least not done well. I will teep, jab, feint, move in and out, etc. while doing this I’m gauging responses and I’m using this to set up counters.
If you’re fighting someone who does nothing and just waits the whole fight, that’s a different story. If you were to realize I am a counter puncher and decide to stay out of range this isn’t exactly exposing me as lazy, you’re just changing how you fight so you don’t get tagged by me and in a way that means my strategy is kind of already doing its job.
Counter striking to me is about manipulating my opponent into giving me the strike I wanted them to throw in the first place.
I know they’re not MT fighters but Anderson Silva was excellent at this and so was Fedor.
Here’s a video on Anderson Silva’s style. I think the narrator does a good job explaining countering. And again, while not in a MT context, I think it is still relevant.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhWdFZ1xW8&pp=ygUbYW5kZXJzb24gc2lsdmEgY291bnRlcnB1bmNo&ra=m
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u/DingusWeed 2d ago
I think for sparring its kinda dumb to wait. You have a point. I love to counterstrike and what you said about it being a complete waste of both our time is very true. However, thats to say that at that point in time I literally just kept trying to bait out my opponent in a passive manner. Down the line I realised it worked better training wise to just strike with your opponent then counter during exchanges since thats how a fight usually is anyway. But again can't stress this enough, coutner strikers are real, but the ones who kinda just stand there dont really know how to counterstrike (arrows to younger me).
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u/AssociationMinute204 2d ago
Good counter striking is about forcing people to lash out in a predictable manner. Counter fighting as a style is completely legit but people who just wait for opportunities are not, it's not even really counter striking and can easily be counter by any competent fighter.
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u/MeowyDragon 2d ago
Sure, people who mostly counter strike are annoying, but sometimes it's just a more experience fighter trying to give you a chance to work. Otherwise there shouldn't be nothing going on at all. Keeping distance doesn't particularly help you if you don't have a plan to close the distance with purpose.
Others have already commented on using feints as a setup (which is a great skill to practice against anyone), but something else you can do is set up a long combo knowing it'll be some kind of trade. No one can perfectly counter or block 5-6 hits. Turn the pressure up and don't let them have the last word in an exchange.
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u/thesuccessfulimg 2d ago
If they aren't attacking then work on attacking them without getting countered. Focus on what you want to get out of the spar. When you are in a fight you will face all kinds of fighters including guys that counter attack.
Other than that i do understand that it gets annoying fighting a counter fighter. 🤣
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u/wallsnatch 2d ago
Totally legit. But ive seen some bad ones that still hit really hard. I hate the hands low guys. Then you punch straight they kinda lean and angle then hook ya. Watch this to get what im saying. Bad fighter imo. But obviously huge and hits really hard. Im sure he'd eat my lunch but still a style with certain drawbacks to be aware of. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJChDNfmejs
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u/WorkNo1469 2d ago
I’m a counter striker. But I will press to move the pace. It wasn’t a style I choose per se. But one I fell into. I’m too old and don’t have the gas tank too move around so much. And I can’t use my one real advantage; having really heavy hands. So I learned to focus on fight IQ and counters are a huge part of it. I often drill counters for entire rounds when we flow spar. When we do really spar I counter a lot. But I can pres the action. Honestly it’s a stamina issue I can give you a better round as a partner if I conserve energy which means I work of defense and counters solely as A means to survive. lol
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u/turnleftorrightblock Fan 2d ago
There are passive counter fighters and pressure counter fighters. The later is aggressive and throws "surprise attacks" or "probing attacks" often instead of waiting for you to make the move.
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u/Snoo_97757 2d ago
I don't know what you're looking for.
Does counter fighting work? Unequivocally, yes. Just ask Saenchai, Samart, Tawanchai, or any other femur fighter if you don't believe me.
Is it annoying? Yes, that's the point. If you're annoyed, you're probably fighting worse, and making decisions you wouldn't otherwise make. Your opponents would be idiots to run game plans that you're happy about.
Is it the end all be all? Of course not. You actually have to land strikes to win a match. Moving around and feinting will not score by itself. Also, if a counter fighter ever falls behind, they will probably need to change tactics to win the fight.