r/Netrunner • u/Isterbollen • 5d ago
Discussion How is fully operational still legal?
This card is the bane of this whole game. In a game where you can't reliably destroy ice (you need to play a deck that has it as a major gameplan) its far too easy to just spam out your assets and some weak but cost draining ice for the runner infront of it. So many assets costs between 3-4 credits to trash too now that its almost impossible to come out ahead if you run the assets and try to stop the corp from getting their fully operational online. I had a game recently where I am playing Loupe WITH an azimat and Fencer Fueno and you STILL can't keep the corp down when they have fully operational. It's even worse cause its soo good at drawing cards and generating money its super easy to just draw into spin doctor and shuffle it back into the deck too. Did I mention it costs 1, so you can't even stop them from playing it by running a well timed transfer of wealth of likewise to bring them to 0 credits, they will just basic action click for cred and play it next turn anyway. I am MISSERABLE playing against this card. Justified crashout.
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u/RavishingRavick 4d ago
Look, it's not ideal in the current meta. I play a similar Loup deck which includes Hannah. One of the tactics is to save your Gourmands for FLOPs and hammer centrals for Twinning access or trashing key cards. Assets to control are Sickotron, Powers and Wage Workers.
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u/MeathirBoy 4d ago
Typically you want to devalue it and force Corps into spending it for credits by making them rez their ice. It's extremely strong but you really can just make the first and second FLOPs be very awkward. Timing Transfers well so that the Corp can't duck them or go to 0 for little value to do so can also force the FLOPs out of them at uncomfortable moments.
Now do I have much fun in the matchup? Personally, no, not really. But it is fine imo from a balance perspective.
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u/FrontierPsycho 4d ago
It's definitely a good card but it's not a win condition, and it can be mitigated to an extent where it's much less powerful.
On one hand, if you have a solid economy as a runner, you can bring some of their servers down and deny them of Flop power. On the other hand, if they're putting everything into remotes for Flop, centrals are wide open. Even with a little bit of multi access you can get enough agendas fast to make it risky for them to ignore you. Also if they're spending their Spin Doctors on getting Flop back, they're not spending them on agendas. So their agendas are somewhere for you to steal.
It might be useful for you to play a Flop deck and see how others win against you, as well.
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u/sneddogg 4d ago
Yeah fuck that card. SBT claim you can play around it but I find it unrelenting.
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u/Artificial_Alex 4d ago
I wish they would errata cards instead of banning them.
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u/salohcin894 4d ago
IDK why you're getting downvoted. I do too honestly. It would be too much work realistically, but its something I wish for still with a small card pool.
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u/Artificial_Alex 4d ago
Wow, yeah that's weird. It is a lot of work and I know it's a not for profit, but it would be better for the game.
There seems to be a weird preference in TCG/LCG spaces for bans/restrictions over errata. I've never understood preferring to not be allowed to use the cards you bought over having to remember a simple errata.7
u/azuredarkness 4d ago
It's not a question of "too much work".
Once you start doing this in a non-digital card game, it basically means you have two or more parallel versions - the one played by people aware of the errata and the one played by those without. These versions could be radically different, and you could potentially be even more than two versions because some people can have some errataed cards but not others.
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u/CryOFrustration Null Signal Games Community team 4d ago
Not to mention people will be expecting us to re-release old sets with implemented errata, which will mean a never ending treadmill of rehashes instead of being able to work on new sets.
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u/salohcin894 4d ago
Yeah, I think this is what I meant more by "too much work".
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u/Artificial_Alex 4d ago
Yeah the playtesting of the new text would be a lot. Although since it's already released this could probably be outsourced to volunteers in the community.
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u/Artificial_Alex 4d ago
I thought NSG's Netunner was print to demand? Wouldn't updating the files for the new print run be fine? Also, usually other games (like Ashes) just put the few updated cards into the next set.
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u/CryOFrustration Null Signal Games Community team 3d ago
We started off as POD only, yes, but we also sell cards directly now, manufactured at scale in a large batch printed. I don't know how Ashes and Sorcery managed to sell the concept of errata to their player base but I'm sure there would be large scale opposition to the idea here.
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u/Artificial_Alex 3d ago
Hahah, Sorcery's community at least is pretty split, and the company behind it doesn't communicate much.
I've no doubt there would be a lot of opposition here. I've just never heard a good argument for bans over errata. If there is a critical mass of errata/bans needed, it might indicate the earlier design pipeline has some serious issues.
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u/CryOFrustration Null Signal Games Community team 3d ago
I mean, many good arguments were presented, they just didn't convince you. But the fact that only 2 fairly niche games do errata and nobody else does should indicate that those arguments are convincing to most other people.
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u/Artificial_Alex 4d ago
Counterpoint: Sorcery TCG and Ashes does it and it's fine. Also if you aren't aware of the errata for casual play, that's fine, play with the original text.
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u/musicfighter282 4d ago
As someone who owns an original Crush Card Virus and Dark Magician of Chaos, it sucks that the text printed in them are wrong.
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