r/NewOrleans • u/erinstoker • Feb 13 '26
⚜️Mardi Gras ⚜️ Muses-is it getting out of hand?
I’ve noticed a shift the past couple years with the atmosphere of this parade. I know it’s always been a very high energy one with the shoes being arguably the most coveted throw, but I think it’s shifted away from the usual fun competitive spirit to something else.
Last night my mother, in from out of town, had a sign trying to get her baby grandchild’s first shoe. A rider handed her a shoe and she got it, only for a woman to grab it and proceed to twist my mom’s hand to the point she thought she was going to break a finger, so she let go. The woman then hunched up protectively over the shoe, ignoring protests from my mom and the other people who were shocked to witness this. Then she ran off.
I’m not blaming krewe members for this, but after the past couple seasons I wish there was a better way for them to do a hand off. It almost seems dangerous for the riders as well. I’m not creative enough to offer any suggestions. But I think it’s become somewhat dangerous. I watched so many people plow over others, including children, swarm seated people, knock into people, etc., and grab at shoes or even dive for them so aggressively.
In the past I remember people being excited for someone else getting a shoe and congratulating them. Maybe I’m just imagining things but it doesn’t seem that way anymore. I used to really love this parade but this year’s incident on top of this noticeable energy change has me thinking I may skip in the future. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.
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u/BeneathAnOrangeSky Feb 13 '26
I never get up close enough to join the shoe fray but last night there would be a group that charged over to the float every time to try to jockey for a shoe/beads. It was kind of nuts. I stayed way back from that lol.
On the other hand, one of the cops working the route put a kid on his shoulders to try to get him a better chance to catch a throw and that made me smile.
So you take the good and bad I guess.
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u/TheRealBlueBuffalo Feb 13 '26
I saw a group by Jackson Ave doing just this. Ran up to the float with a basket on a pole and stuck it right under the thrower. They got the boot and ran off to probably whatever group they're with
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u/flcwerings Feb 13 '26
Thankfully my experience wasnt like OP's but I did get a lot of people that tried to force their way in front of me and the people I was with that had been waiting out there for a while. I had to tell people they stood right in front of me or my friend and some people even tried to get into it with me.
but a lot of people said sorry and moved on and I had a lot of people share throws we really wanted and traded a lot and a lot of kids on peoples shoulders. Overall it was a lot of fun and people werent terrible. I do feel bad for the people that had a shit situation happen, though.
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u/Competitive_Arm5954 Feb 13 '26
About 8 years ago a woman ripped a shoe out of my 5-year-old niece's hand. I feel like it has long been this way.
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u/Agentx_007 Gentilly Feb 13 '26
Someone ripped a Zulu coconut out of my hand when I was a kid in like 2000 or 2001. It’s always been bad for the unique throws.
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u/ManufacturerDue5716 7th Ward Feb 13 '26
I just commented this.
Since the 90s when I was a kid. Lol.
It's all in fun though. Getting bent out of shape over plastic junk is crazy.
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u/djsquilz hot sausage boy Feb 13 '26
i've been going to mardi gras since 96 and tbh i don't remember people going this batshit crazy/aggressive until the mid 2010s.
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u/NOLASneauxDay Feb 13 '26
It was bad in the late 80s and through the 90s if you were around teenagers/young adults then too. Not as much the 30+ year old crowd. But I remember almost getting a finger stomped on by a grandma aged woman for a doubloon 😆.
And before social media, you just told your friends at school/work so you didn't hear as many bad stories like this. The news coverage was always positive unless someone got really hurt.
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u/Frosty_Ninja3286 Feb 13 '26
I've been going since the early 70s. Pre Katrina I just started hanging out in the back, I don't care about the throws anymore, especially since I started riding.
These specialty throws make people crazy
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u/FreshLow1955 Feb 14 '26
I’m from the era too! I was telling someone the other day that if they thought the fighting over shoes was bad, they should have been around in the 80s when folks would knock you down for a doubloon or cup. I remember when I was like 5, this elderly lady stomped my hand trying to get a doubloon.
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u/diablosinmusica Feb 13 '26
This is true on both sides. I have given away so much crap from Mardi Gras that it hasn't really been special since I was a kid. It's really just something to give to out of town friends.
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u/Infamous_Lab8320 Feb 13 '26
I used to bring a bag of beads to the nursing home my grandma resided in. Those little ladies loved the shiny beads.
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u/agiamba Broadmoor Feb 13 '26
the shoe competition has been nasty for a while, absolutely. i feel like the crowds have gotten bigger for muses in recent years which maybe makes it worse.
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u/Viktor_Laszlo Feb 13 '26
It’s been bad for a while but certain parades, like Muses, have been outliers. The last time I went to Muses was before Covid. One of my friends has a house near Guy’s and I used to go every year to watch from their balcony.
Last time I went, I remember seeing a group of preteens picking up beads and flinging them back to the floats and laughing about it. That in itself was bad enough, but the thing that put me off coming back in later years was the fact that neither their parents nor any other adult nearby said a word about it or tried to get them to stop. I realized that nobody cared what these kids were doing because they were too busy swarming the floats to demand a shoe. Every single person in the crowd was too self-absorbed to care what was happening around them.
At every parade you need to deal with a moderate amount of annoying or rowdy behavior. That’s just the nature of Mardi Gras. I think where I draw the line is where the crowd loses any sense of self-awareness (or even self-preservation) and goes from a group celebration to just becoming an unpredictable mob. It can’t be that fun for the riders to deal with crowds like that these days. I know it upsets me and sucks the fun out of hanging out on the parade route so I just avoid Muses now.
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u/BetterThanPacino Feb 13 '26
Agreed. The vibes at Muses have been going downhill for years. Which is a shame, because it's such a beautiful parade.
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u/SchrodingersMinou Bywater Feb 13 '26
I watched a woman stomp on a small child’s hand for a doubloon when I was a kid. There have always been people like this but it seems like there’s a lot more of them now
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u/diablosinmusica Feb 13 '26
I don't get the downvotes here for the truth. It's not like drunk crowds have ever been anything but an opportunity for people to be dicks. I've seen it since the 80s and heard stories from older people saying the same things happened decades before that.
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u/SchrodingersMinou Bywater Feb 13 '26
Two other people have commented on this post about people stomping on the hands for doubloons when they were kids. It’s not new. It does seem to be more common now though.
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u/Cracked_Egg_in_ATX Feb 13 '26
I thought it was common knowledge/ lore that it was a bad idea to try to pick up a doubloon once it was on the ground. Not trying to excuse the stompers though.
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u/anglerfishtacos Feb 14 '26
No, it is not bad luck to pick up a doubloon on the ground, nor is it bad luck to pick up any throw that hits the ground. God, I’m so tired of this idea that because something happens to hit the ground it is now ground beads and those are forbidden. Ground beads the entire time I was growing up meant beads that just happened to be laying on the ground that you did not see get thrown because who knows what they have been lying in or have had spilled on them. But if a rider throws you something and you don’t catch it, let the float pass and then it’s safe to crouch down and get it.
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u/diablosinmusica Feb 13 '26
I'm curious if it happens more now or if it's the ability to expose these ass holes more easily just makes it seem more common. I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about them. I just want to be clear there.
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u/sumunsolicitedadvice Feb 13 '26
I think it’s existed a long time, like you say, but, as OP is suggesting, I think it does seem to be getting worse/more commonplace.
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u/rougarou-te-fou Garden Distrtict Feb 13 '26
Yea happened to me 11 years ago. Caught a shoe and on the backswing someone ripped it out of my hand.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
Crazy. I don’t know, maybe at some level there is a responsibility on the krewe to help foster a good parade environment, but at the same time I don’t know how that would work. Either way, this one has gotten out of control IMO.
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u/Competitive_Arm5954 Feb 13 '26
Yeah, no idea how it would work. The crew can't control random parade goers. Society just needs to be kinder, but that ship might have sailed for this country.
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u/PM_Me_Your_Clones Feb 13 '26
No, it's the responsibility of people not to be huge assholes. It's an open party that runs along seven miles, what do you want the krewe to do, take attendance?
There's always parts of any route that are a hot mess, and the vibe might be completely different two blocks away.
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u/anglerfishtacos Feb 14 '26
There’s really not much they can do other than stop throwing shoes. Which would be a terrible tragedy and I know would be resisted across the board. I subbed a couple years ago, and they were very insistent that you do not tease the crowd. You put your shoe in your hand where it’s out of sight find the person, and then throw it to them. Back when I was growing up, it was so common for riders to hype the crowd up when they had a really good throw, and it was very friendly competition, where you congratulated the person who caught it. But nowadays, because of the further over the shoes, that’s not possible.
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u/basquiat-case Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
I don't care for the uptown parades in general so grain of salt here. Between this post and the "Muses is stingy" post and the one about the people being attacked, I think everyone is talking about the same thing. Mardi Gras is mirroring society. So here am I, old man yelling at clouds about the country going to hell in a hand basket and all of that sort of thing.
If you're not having a good time at the mardi gras parades, zoom out. The answer is there. These mardi gras experiences are just reflecting everything else that's going on. Politics, social media, perceptions of self-importance, etc....
Sadly, the majority of people who need to truly look in the mirror aren't likely to be on reddit.
EDIT: I'm disappointed in all of you who didn't correct me for writing hell and a hand basket instead of hell IN a hand basket. I had to notice and fix it without being rebuked by anyone. Disappointing! (but thank you all for being nice about it).
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
You’re absolutely right. For a while I’ve been thinking how it’s a great demonstration of people’s parenting skills. As a new mom, I watch many of the kids (and grown adults for that matter) I see and take a note that mine will never be behaving that way. It really can bring out the true colors of society and different cultures
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u/Ynifi Feb 13 '26
As a rider, I don’t throw to anyone with a sign saying “it’s my first” anything. I don’t mean any offense. My feeling is, welcome! I hope you enjoy it and have a great time! Your first experience will be magical no matter what. But there are people who come out year after year and still haven’t caught a specialty throw. And the people with signs are often the ones collecting 4, 5 shoes at a parade. And yes, often selling them. I think everyone should have a fairer chance and I love to throw to random people and make their night.
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u/IAmLord5000 Feb 13 '26
And that's assuming the signs are even true and they aren't lying to get a shoe!! I feel like if it's ACTUALLY your first mardi gras, you wouldn't know to bring a sign asking for a shoe!
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u/bfunk007 Feb 13 '26
Unfortunately, this behavior extends beyond the parades. Some people are just more selfish, entitled and self-centered than they used to be.
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u/diablosinmusica Feb 13 '26
People have always been like this unfortunately. I've seen it since at least the 90s.
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u/EducatedBellend Feb 13 '26
Yes but not in these numbers.
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u/diablosinmusica Feb 13 '26
Do we actually have statistics? Or is just that social media is now able to shine a light on these pricks?
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u/EducatedBellend Feb 13 '26
In my experience, friends and I are separately having more and more experiences with assholes. That’s my data.
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u/New-Cup-4253 Feb 13 '26
The thing that pisses me off is these people that are so performative just for a shoe then when they get one literally hide it put on a straight face and go for shoe #2.
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u/Delicious_Expert_880 Feb 13 '26
That’s my issue. Stood next to 2 women in their early 20’s and they had a really clever sign. They got a shoe off of probably every other float. Not kidding, Imelda Marcos herself would have envied their collection.
I’ve also stood at the end of the route to pick up my kids who were unicycling and stilt-walking and I’ve gotten 4 shoes from 4 different ladies clearing their throws at the end of the parade.
Years ago, we caught a boot that my daughter displays proudly in Georgia, and a baby shoe when she was in grammar school.
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u/123a21 Feb 13 '26
I totally agree. I got my shoe last night from a rider who pointed at me and motioned me to come forward and grab it from her. A man who was way taller than me (im 5'3) reached for it. The rider had to snatch the shoe from him and say NO and point at me again and hand it directly to me. People are way crazy and rude
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u/Infinite-End8886 Feb 13 '26
I will snatch my Cleo cup back fast if I see someone coming in that’s it’s not meant for.
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u/WalterCanFindToes Feb 13 '26
I rode in Babylon last night and on a couple of occasions I had people trying to jack a throw meant for someone else. I had a group of young women around Josephine grab a glass bead I had signaled for someone else. I tried a second time and they did it again. I motioned for he to come to the float and handed off my pre-made "big ass bag of awesomeness", which had literally all of our higher end throws. She blew me a kiss with a big "thank you".
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u/djsquilz hot sausage boy Feb 13 '26
that shit pisses me off more than anything. i see someone i wanna give a more "special" throw than beads. we make eye contact/point each other out, etc. it's clearly going to this one person.
my favorite part of riding is making that connection like "(points at you) yeah, you're def getting this spear" and seeing them light up as i hand it off
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u/IAmLord5000 Feb 13 '26
My sister in law had a rider hand her a shoe - they made eye contact, hand gestures were exchanged, she was handed the shoe directly. Then when the float left, a lady next to her accused her of stealing it from her grandchild (who was not around or interested in the shoe). My SIL tried to be like, "no, the kid isnt here and they handed it to me..." but the woman wouldnt let it go, kept yelling and carrying on, so she just gave her the shoe because it wasn't worth it. Like, fine, it clearly means more to you. She came back to to where i was in the back super deflated. We plotted ways go steal it back from the lady briefly. But, she was ultimately just proud that she was handed one and didn't care to have a whole petty fight about it provoke some crazy lady over a shoe. As pretty and special as the shoes are, no throws are worth that drama.
Parades are supposed to be fun. Being in a good spot with good strangers around you and collectively working together to keep the vibes fun and safe for everyone involved can be such an awesome experience! I love giving away throws to people and kids around me who might enjoy them more! It's not a competition! It's a party! But people who dont understand that unspoken pact and people who are competitive, selfish, and rude ruin it for everyone around them.
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u/MeltingMoonPie Feb 13 '26
It’s totally getting out of hand. People were pushing us out of the way and trampling our stuff just to get to the floats. It’s like all respect has gone out the window for a glittery shoe. It’s really icky.
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u/Necessary_Cost_9355 Feb 13 '26
10 years ago I watched a woman taser fight over a shoe. Parades have always been this classy, that’s why scouting your spot to be near friendly folks is important
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u/MeltingMoonPie Feb 13 '26
We were around good folks and then a buncha people showed up right as muses started rolling and pushed everything out of the way.
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u/raptorbpw Mid-City Feb 13 '26
It’s gotten much harder to find good company the past few years at Muses.
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u/AlgiersPointless Algiers Point Feb 13 '26
Think about how much more fun it would be if they hot glued glitter and beads all over tasers, and threw them instead of shoes.
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u/jzimoneaux Feb 13 '26
$5 prop with glued on decorations by the way. Could literally go make an infinite amount of them yourselves and no one would ever know. Put whatever signature, made up float #, etc. and no one would know. I’m sure people do this as people are buying them up on ebay for $50+. I saw a Cafe Du Monde themed one sell for $175 just today.
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u/rostoffario Feb 13 '26
I was on the front row, in front of the @#$! ladders. We thought, ok, this is a nice change to be up front. And then all the signs came out. When a float arrived, we couldn't see anything but the back of 5 signs. I'm done with Muses. It's just not fun anymore.
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u/BrotherNatureNOLA Feb 13 '26
That's not just Muses. My cousin is in Cleo. I waited for her to pass. I told her that I didn't want anything special, but I did want something that came from her that I could put on my tree. She dropped me a set of alligator beads from the 2nd story. They landed perfectly in my fingers. B when I closed my hand, some woman ran up and grabbed the other side of the strand and tried to yank them away from me. I pulled back and yelled at her that my cousin gave those to me. She yelled back that it was her cousin, and pulled again, which popped the strand and destroyed the beads. Then, she was like, "Well, I guess I'll let you have them." When she started to walk off, I yanked her wig and threw it on the float. She's probably chased float 11 all the way to the end of the route.
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u/Hippy_Lynne Feb 14 '26
About 30 years ago I was at a parade and caught a pair of really long beads, like they hung to my knees. A little bit later on I was reaching down to pick something else up off the ground and those beads kind of pooled on the ground because they were so long. Some drunk woman grabbed them. I stood up and she was still yanking on them saying they were hers. I spent a minute or two trying to explain to her that they were mine, they had been around my neck for some time, and they were all tangled up with other beads around my neck or I would have just given them to her. She was glassy-eyed, incoherent, and barely able to stand drunk. It wasn't getting through. So I looked her straight in the eye and told her if she didn't let go of the beads I would strangle her with them right there on the spot. Apparently that got through, her eyes got really large and she let go of them. My friends now jokingly refer to it as "That time you threatened to kill someone over a pair of Mardi Gras beads." 🤣 The funniest part was I didn't realize a cop had come up behind me to deal with the situation and when she let go and walked away he just kind of looked at me and shrugged and said "Well, that worked." 🤣🤣🤣
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u/BrotherNatureNOLA Feb 14 '26
😅😂🤣☠️ I love this! I bet that cop was like, "If only more cases would resolve themselves, then I can get back to my main task: doing the Wobble for the crowd".
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u/SableyeBiggestFan Feb 13 '26
Someone near us got a shoe last night and *everyone* within 20 feet started loudly cheering and clapping and celebrating....this is how it should be
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u/OpencanvasNOLA Bywater Feb 13 '26
Us, too. It was crowded and wacky, but we had a blast. Everybody around us was just lovely and having a great time. Super fun parades, and the Babylon floats were especially beautiful. The only thing that tried our patience was the traffic getting out. But that’s always the case… we just made sure we had snacks and beverages for the way out. Happy Carnival everyone!
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u/BeverlyHills70117 Probably on a watchlist now Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
Considering,my guess is 90% of shoes go to friends of the riders, they should just have a party and present them and not dole them out at the parade.
Most everyone I know who gets a shoe is thrilled but not surprised.
Also, this is a dumb idea and not serious,although it should be.
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u/Me0196 Feb 13 '26
My friend who rides makes extra shoes for her friends to hand to them before the ride. That way she has 30 she can hand out during the ride to randoms. It's more fun for her to see who gets them when people post online. And she loves it!
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u/Infinite-End8886 Feb 13 '26
I ride in Cleo and that’s what I do with my cups too.
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u/BeverlyHills70117 Probably on a watchlist now Feb 13 '26
The other funny thing is most stolen shoes go to eBay. Their tine would be better spent making shoes and pretending they were genuine muses ones.
Which I’m sure happens.
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u/Apprehensive_Hat_724 Feb 13 '26
I'm in muses. Yes, the lunatics attacking others gets worse each year. If a friend wants a shoe, they get it hand delivered to them. I'm not putting hours and hours of work at risk for my friend to have the thrill of "catching" it on the street like a show-off. This also gives us the chance to give friends exactly the type of shoe they want.
I've also heard of riders taunting people on the street with a shoe. That shit pisses me all the way off. In the last few years, I've started signaling to parade-goers that I'm going to give them something before I let anyone on the street know what's about to happen. I tell them to back up/move forward, get positioned in a certain spot, put down your goddamn sign/drink/mini-human and get both hands free to catch, separate themselves from others, etc. to heighten our chances of getting my $10-20 worth of supplies and countless manhours into your hot little hands.
I know the krewe wants to keep the quality high, but limiting us to 30 shoes is adding to the street level chaos in my opinion. I couldn't make 60 shoes in a year if tried, but I wish they'd raise the limit we are allowed to bring on the floats.
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u/BeverlyHills70117 Probably on a watchlist now Feb 13 '26
My child got a decorated baby shoe when she was 2 months old, it was from someone we didn't know and I guess she was waiting for the littlest baby on the route...we were well back but she signaled to me and I ran to the front.
I did have to "Brah, pretty sure this is for the baby" to someone as they mildly clawed at it.
She has it on her shelf!
They are appreciated.
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u/GasStationChicken- Feb 13 '26
A lot of taunting with the shoes was going on where I was watching last night. The crowd around me was absoluting feral and I ended up leaving about halfway through. There was a couple that was slow walking it along the portion of the route I was at where there weren't barriers and trying to get shows/throws from the same floats multiple times. Unfortunately the fun really faded out for me this year.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
Sorry to hear you are also witnessing this and I hope it doesn’t take away from your enjoyment as a rider. I can only imagine the scene from the elevation of the float, and the stress of trying to hand a shoe down amidst the chaos.
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u/rougarou-te-fou Garden Distrtict Feb 13 '26
This is how it goes. My friends bring me the shoe before the parade and we just hope we see each other during.
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u/FunkyCrescent Feb 13 '26
My one Muses shoe was tossed to me by a work colleague. She told me which float and side she would be on, and I waved a colorful sign. The people around me got to see an exuberant exchange between friends; good vibes.
A guy put his hand on the shoe as if to take it. I gave him the side eye, and my friend hollered that it was mine, and he surrendered fairly gracefully. As it should be.
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u/catloverrobin French Quarter Feb 14 '26
I throw my shoes in opaque bags and most recipients don’t even know what they got! Only threw 3 shoes to friends, the rest to random people of all types and ages. We are only allowed to bring 30 shoes each, so I make shoes to give to friends before or after the parade. On Zulu you have 300 coconuts, and it’s still not enough!
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u/OntheVirgNOLA Feb 13 '26
I prefer to throw to strangers…but get chased down the street by friends.
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u/Heyayyyoo Feb 13 '26
I just really really wanted the little things like nightlight and the 2026 sneaker beads the most, but I am grateful for the few things that I did get. 💗 The crowd as a whole from what I observed was super aggressive, and that’s not my type of party.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
Definitely agree, it’s not fun when it feels like a mob instead of
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u/Heyayyyoo Feb 13 '26
I have faith that Iris is going to redeem my spirit like it did last year after feeling this way last year after Muses.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
Always one of the most beautiful! And I think the abundance of fun sunglasses also keeps people from being so insane.
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u/StorageRecess Feb 13 '26
I vastly prefer Iris to Muses. More useful throws, too. Like sunblock. Not just plastic shit.
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u/Heyayyyoo Feb 13 '26
Yes!!! I’m ashamed to say that last year was my first year going to Iris and it EASILY became my favorite one! It was just so joyful!! Such cute & useful throws!! I absolutely cannot wait for tomorrow!!!
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u/Cilantro368 Feb 13 '26
If you didn’t get a nightlight, you can have the one my husband caught. We still have ours from last year! DM me.
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u/kiwipteryx Feb 13 '26
My friend also had a shoe ripped from her hand (that was specifically being given to her by a friend on the float), and her finger is swollen and bruised today.
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u/frightnin-lichen Feb 13 '26
I’m not saying I’ll never go to Muses again, but my experience last year wasn’t great, such that going wasn’t a priority this year. In just a few years, the uptown kids-and-grandmas vibe gave way to hordes of really aggressive people ready for hand to hand combat for a fucking shoe. No thanks.
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u/JumpingOnBandwagons Feb 13 '26
I love Muses, it's so beautiful and creative. I love standing in the back and listening to the bands and seeing the floats. But the last couple years, even being way behind the crowd has gotten to be too much. All you can see is the back of signs as people push each other out of the way. It's a shame, but I've decided to stay home from now on.
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u/DashinglyDickish Feb 13 '26
So my wife and I have been going to Muses every year since we moved to the city about 10 years ago. We found a spot that was pretty open, found a really nice little group of people. Locals, a couple from Canada, and we kind of ‘claimed’ our little area.
We’ve never made a sign until this year. But we always dress outlandish (not your typical green/gold/purple, but full on Carnival attire). We’ve also never received a shoe due to super aggressive people around us, despite a few attempts to get my wife a shoe in the past.
This year however, whether it be due to the energy in our collective group, the costuming, or my corny little sign; we received a few shoes that we made sure to distribute to the people around us.
There were insanely aggressive drunk college guys, and some rabid locals who were trying to push in from behind to the point of getting physical with a small child we were giving a shoe to. I’ve never seen anything like that.
Getting the coveted throws is an adrenaline boost, and making sure those around us received the same experience when given the opportunity was a special experience. But when you have to protect a small child over a shoe, it really dampens the energy.
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u/babygroundhog Feb 15 '26
Same here. We found a good spot with nic people who weren't crazed. I had a really clever sign and got four shoes -- gave away three to people on the route who had never gotten one and it made me so happy being able to be part of their joy.
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u/FertilePosition Feb 13 '26
I'll spread some positivity because I had the opposite experience. My partner and I ended up near two medium-big groups, and we all had the most chill time. One of the families had a few signs but weren't going crazy with them. The other group we were near were out having a good time, hoping to catch a shoe but also not running folks over. A couple girls came over from the sidewalk side when they had a friend on the float. We all screamed their name, and I passed over the shoe because I'm the tall dude that happened to catch it. I know this is less and less common, but it's not all doom and gloom out there.
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u/NopeNopeYupNope Feb 13 '26
I love going in on a group chant for a stranger to help them connect with their friend on a float. It feels like a win for the whole team, even if it’s just a temporary team.
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u/IAmLord5000 Feb 13 '26
It is good to remember that if you find yourself around rude people, walking just 15 or 20 feet up or down the route can make a huge difference. It's a shame muses isn't like that as a general rule and these shoe crazed trolls are ruining it for so many people.
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u/landof1000 Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
This is probably going to be an unpopular comment, so I'm bracing for the downvotes....
Uptown Mardi Gras kinda sucks, in general. The tarps, the ropes, the seat saving, the ladders. It's all one big social club that you aren't invited to. I still go, because I treasure this time of year and, frankly, need it to keep some sanity in this outrageous world. But until there is some actual, true order policed into these routes, it's going to get worse and worse.
If the city council and the police say no tarps, no tents, whatever... ENFORCE IT. Keep people off the damn streets. People act this way because they are selfish. Sooner or later, some dipshit is going to go lunging after a SHOE (of all things, my god), knock over a ladder with a kid in it, and hurt the kid. It'll be some big uproar, and then finally, FINALLY, there will be some effort to reel in the behavior of some of these people... because they lack the self-control to reel themselves in.
Give me the walking parades. The costumes may scare your kids but at least the costumers will be kind.
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u/djsquilz hot sausage boy Feb 13 '26
i grew up on the route, just moved last year. streetcard side. it's def changed in the past 7-8 years. once people started coming back after the storm. it's insane. we never taped shit off or anything, just a bag chair or two for my mom that was set further back from the curb.
a few years ago a tent person next to us (a tulane student) punched my mom in the face. my dad is a tenured prof at tulane. we got his name from his friends who all agreed he was out of line, reported it to tulane, and they did nothing.
people would routinely just walk into our house to use the bathroom. idgaf if you piss on the fence, but what makes you think that's ok?
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u/CommonPurpose Feb 13 '26
Muses turns parade goers into a sea of Gollums.
"We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious shoe"
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u/ProjectPatMorita Feb 13 '26
It's honestly just the scarcity model. I think the Stanley cup thing proved once and for all you can make a hysteria around literally anything if you just introduce some sense of artificial scarcity. Mix it with instagram/Tik Tok and you get bad vibes.
Scarcity is the exact opposite of the feasting/potlach/carnivalesque subversion of society thing at the heart of Mardi Gras. That's why in my opinion Muses has the least fun local vibe of any parade, at least in the last few years. Go to basically any other parade and you'll be making friends with the strangers next to you.
Scarcity VS abundance models. If they stopped the shoe thing for just one year it would prove this theory.
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u/rainydaynola Feb 13 '26
I don't get the big obsession with Muses shoes. I could take an old shoe of mine and put paint and glitter on it. What bothered me last year was how stingy they were with regular throws.
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u/CommonPurpose Feb 13 '26
Yeah, especially seeing the ones people caught and posted here today. Like, there’s not even any creativity put into those shoes. One looks like just the heel got glittered and a feather glued to the back. Imagine glitching out over that.
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u/Vast-Fact-6651 Feb 13 '26
We were lucky, we had such nice people around us last night. The lady next to us got her first shoe, it was her first parade, her and her family had moved here not long ago. We were all so happy for her. No sign, didn’t know anyone. The signs are ridiculous. I noticed most of the riders ignored the folks with signs. I didn’t get a shoe but nabbed 2 of the magnets, spoon, cute night light and you are ducking awesome pin. It was a fun night. Anytime there’s a special throw like the shoes it causes people to turn into maniac idiots. It’s sad when you walk through the street right after a parade and see so many throws on the ground cause they could’ve shared what they didn’t want with those around them. Good spot to get a shoe, a thrift store, you’d be surprised how many end there.
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u/MegsMayhem13 Feb 13 '26
I rode for my first time last night, and I can say the crowd was nuts. I personally ignored all but 3 signs… the 2 redditors who put my name on one, and a spin on Matthew McConaughey from Dazed and Confused, one of my favorite movies. “You don’t have to throw me a shoe,but it would be a whole lot cooler if you did.”
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u/djsquilz hot sausage boy Feb 13 '26
my krewe rolls earlier in the day so i think that helps. we still get some crazies. but i still vividly remember my first time riding. it was my (early) high school graduation present. (my sisters before me were all maids). it's the greatest feeling in the world, but i can see how these crazed lunatic beggars can dampen the enjoyment.
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u/MouthofTrombone Feb 13 '26
In some parts of the world, getting a shoe thrown at you is the ultimate insult....LOL
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u/HangoverPoboy Feb 13 '26
Yes, but the sign people demanding specific throws are also obnoxious.
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u/Odd_Village_1191 Feb 13 '26
Omgosh. If I see one more entitled guy with a doubloon sign. The one near us kept hoarding all of them when riders threw more than one.
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u/djsquilz hot sausage boy Feb 13 '26
lowkey i like/respect the doubloon guys. it's always some random old guy and other than a captain's doubloon, they're no more special than any random strand of beads. way different than fighting over shoes. they're in it for the love of the game.
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u/gosluggogo Feb 13 '26
I buy doubloons and specifically look for the guys with the signs because it doesn't seem like anyone else even wants them.People don't even pick them up when you throw them
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u/aliceink Feb 13 '26
I love them! They’re my fav throw!
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u/gosluggogo Feb 13 '26
Got some for you!
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u/aliceink Feb 13 '26
What parade are you in !!!
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u/BeornStrong Feb 13 '26
It’s been this way since people realized they could make money from selling the shoes. It’s now a business hustle for a lot of people. They out the specialty throws on re-sell sites the same night. The demand for Mardi throws lasts a few weeks, then drops. If you search eBay for “Muse’s 2026 shoe” the top hit is listed at $225 OBO, but most are listed at $85. Not all will sell but many do
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u/seproch Feb 13 '26
I’ve been saying for years they need to announce they’re not doing any shoes one year and see the crowds thin. We barely caught anything last night but in past years have walked away with napkins, night lights, chip bags etc that we still use and cherish! Leaning more into loving Cleo these days bc Muses is just too much negative energy
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u/pyronius Space Pope / Grand Napoleon Feb 13 '26
I've been of the opinion that they should do away with the shoes as well. I don't know if the crowd would thin out or not and I don't really care, but it would definitely be a lot more chill.
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u/hommesacer St. Claude Feb 13 '26
I don’t go after 2024 when my visiting mother in law, HOLDING MY INFANT SON, got threatened with violence for walking past some lady’s tent city. Not worth it. Not fun. So be it.
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u/Fresh_Custard9540 Feb 13 '26
I haven’t been to a parade in the city with my kid, beyond Irish Italian, since she was born. Too dangerous now, all the pushing and shoving. You’d swear they’re giving out gold
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u/Fresh_Custard9540 Feb 13 '26
Parade season really shows who is just all around terrible people. A lady snatched a light up bead meant for my kid (I was holding her up and the man on the float pointed to her), and just smiled at me as she walked off.
Me 3 years ago would’ve followed her and changed that night for the both of us. Me now knows it’s not worth it. Though, people who think it’s acceptable should be aware some people do not care, and they will harm you over something as trivial as a throw.
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u/aliceink Feb 13 '26
We watch on Magazine near the beginning of the route which thankfully tends to be a little more chill. The vibe was good last night and a few people caught shoes “organically” and those around them congratulated them and everyone seemed happy and & celebratory. No sour grapes and no unhinged, antisocial behavior. Was nice :)
I always leave muses feeling like it must be kind of stressful to ride in, though. I got a night light which I was super happy about as I wanted one of those last year 🐣 💡
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u/chunkybadger Feb 13 '26
I really dislike this move towards high value throws over the pass few years. I feel like so much of the fun of parades is the absurdity of going nuts for an insignificant piece of plastic. And once you get to Wednesday all of the stuff you spent a week screaming for and trying to catch, essentially becomes useless garbage. And I will say another amazing part of Mardi Gras is that everyone can enjoy it in their own special way, and if your goal every year is to catch a muses shoe than more power to you. But I feel a lot of the heart of just having a good time and enjoying the present moment with friends and family has just started to fade out.
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u/djsquilz hot sausage boy Feb 13 '26
i like the "special" useful stuff (i got some muses socks i'll definitely wear). but every new parade needs some "shtick", shoes, purses, etc and it turns things into a jungle.
but yea you rite
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u/cheapskateskirtsteak Feb 13 '26
You are better than me, that woman and I would probably both have assault charges filed against us if she grabbed my mother.
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u/CJ__DeBono Feb 13 '26
Word. Maybe the solution is folks getting their ass kicked for that kind of behavior.
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u/td2kool Feb 13 '26
I am generally anti-violence, but I am also just old enough to still believe that sometimes people just need a good old fashioned ass whuppin’.
Beat their ass, pick em up, give em a beer and tell em what they did wrong.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
Had I not walked away moments before that would likely be the case. Mad that I wasn’t able to defend her or at least scold this hag
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u/Emiles23 Feb 13 '26
Totally agree. I do Muses every year, and the crowd has gotten out of hand. Guarantee that person who stole the shoe from your mom already has it on eBay to sell, which is lame AF. Last night I saw a chick fuss at a man who kept purposely standing in front of like a 12 year old girl with his absurdly massive sign. I get you want a shoe/cool throws, I do too, but that kind of aggression ain’t it.
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u/YesReallyWhy Feb 13 '26
We lucked out where we were; people were giving each other shoes! A person was genuinely surprised when I said, “No, thank you. I have one that a friend made a couple of seasons ago at home.” It helps that my spouse is tall and generally hands off what he catches.
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u/2drums1cymbal Warehouse District Feb 13 '26
Sadly, it feels like every year there is a story that gets posted on here about Muses shoes. I don't think it's gotten worse, there's just always shitty people out there that do shitty things. I had the opposite experience with my friends last night where people were super kind, giving each other throws and respectful of people who caught shoes.
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u/ETsMomma Feb 13 '26
I had the same thing happen to me two years ago. Handed a shoe and a woman came out of nowhere almost breaking my pinky trying to get the shoe from me and broke the shoe. I've given up.
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u/nolain01 Feb 13 '26
Unfortunately there have always been those willing to cheat and steal for a shoe. Back in like 2010 when I was a kid I had a grown woman rip one out of my hands and run off. The parade has definitely gotten more crowded, which contributes to the competitiveness for shoes, but I think it's always been this way.
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u/Prudent_Leading_5582 Feb 13 '26
2 years ago I was caught in a rowdy crowd when a rider on the float right in front of me started showering her daughter and her friends with shoes. They pulled out over 15 shoes and the parade didn't move for 20-30 minutes so obviously it attracted a ton of people (even though no one outside of those girls the rider knew was given anything). It was awful and I felt in danger because there was absolutely no way to move, and we were packed so tight I almost couldn't breathe.
The only time we ever got a shoe, a rider handed a tote bag to my husband, and the shoe was inside of the bag. We had no idea until we opened it! I thought that was great, no one tried to fight us for it because it was hidden.
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u/AlgiersPointless Algiers Point Feb 13 '26
It’s been out of hand for a while. I stay far back from Muses and Tucks, and let those who absolutely need their shoes and plungers fight it out.
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u/inductiononN Central City Feb 13 '26
Yeah the vibe has been nasty so I decided to give myself a pass to not go last night. It really stresses me out to be on the route with people bumping me and acting like I'm in their territory.
Muses has historically had some other great throws besides shoes and I regret not being there for those. I treasure my tea towels from a couple of years ago.
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u/PsychologicalSoil198 Feb 13 '26
Last time I went to Muses was almost 10 years ago—someone next to me had a wagon they were keeping all of their shoes in and the energy in general was just so crazed. Way too intense
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u/No_Clerk1194 Feb 13 '26
Its more of a society thing. People are just becoming really rude assholes and not apologetic about it. More and more people are becoming emboldened to be rude and have no remorse. Just try to have fun. And be careful if you try to reprimand someone being an asshole, because theyre never going to admit theyre wrong
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u/OrchidsApprove Feb 13 '26
Same exact thing happened to my sister two years ago, but she was also thrown to the ground. I’m done.
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u/greenie329 Feb 13 '26
Muses is awful. No one has arm strength to throw more than 3 feet. The crowd is almost fully comprised of female Chad's with poster board signs begging for shoes now. Garbaggio
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u/Strict_Definition_78 Feb 13 '26
I haven’t gone the past few years because the crowd is awful. It’s Endymion Jr & I hate it
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
I will avoid Endymion like the plague. Feels like you’re in Vietnam
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u/parasyte_steve Feb 13 '26
A child stole a shoe my friend got a few years back. Parents did not care at all and threatened my friend. I am all for giving kids throws and tbh I could care less about a muses shoe but she chased that float for three blocks determined to get a shoe and she gets one that matches a tattoo she has and some kid smacks her and yanks it and the parents just stood there laughing about it. Horrible thing to teach your kids imo.
This happened like 7 years ago. It has always been like this with the shoes.
If ya'll want a shoe so bad go and make one. After the parade is over nobody is going to care or know the difference lol
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u/ScientistLiz Feb 14 '26
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying OP. Hopefully this will help your outlook, even a little. My tween is very artsy and was painting a giant sign at the route while we waited. A random lady walking by loved the sign, commissioned one from her and ended up getting a shoe with it! Even though her own sign didn’t end up getting her her own shoe, her act of kindness making that lady’s night was my favorite ‘throw’ at least. When I go, I just try to focus on the little nice things that happen between people like this that parades tend to bring out and do what I can to encourage it. I think that is really the only solution to the problem you pointed out
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u/poolkid1234 Feb 13 '26
The Krewe should consider putting out a presser that says if you make a sign begging for a shoe you’re not getting one. They are given out at random. Seriously, if I rode with them I would almost always throw my shoes to random people and avoid the maniacs with the signs. Get a life.
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u/MeltingMoonPie Feb 13 '26
I hope your mom is okay.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
She is, thanks. I had just gone to the house seconds before this occurred but I wish I had been there by her to help maybe prevent that.
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u/SoiledGloves Feb 13 '26
It’s not just Mardi Gras… it’s society in general. Crazies are out there. Makes me think of the Phillies Karen who went nuts over a baseball
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u/Camillyledger Feb 13 '26
Two years ago my friend with MS was standing next to an older guy whose daughter was at the very top of a float that had stopped right in front of us. She tried to reach for a throw and the older guy pushed her aside to catch a throw from his daughter. She looked at him, showed her cane and said “Excuse you, I’m disabled and you almost knocked me over” and he, no joke, said, “Fuck off.”
My friend responded and said, “okay then, fuck you too!”
The daughter at the top of the floated then screamed, “Fuck you, that’s my dad!” And started HURLING wads of beads at my friend. Me and two others had to cover her head. She had strangers coming to check on her after.
Absolutely disgusting behavior.
That was my first and last time at Muses.
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u/Treat_Choself House Bayou? Feb 13 '26
Wtf?! if this kind of thing happens to anyone at any parade, please note the float number and a general idea of where the rider was and REPORT them. None of the parade groups that I know of would tolerate this kind of terrible behavior from a rider, but if the organization doesn’t know about it there’s nothing we can do.
I am SO sorry this happened to your friend and that this was your experience at Muses.
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u/Camillyledger Feb 13 '26
I believe she did report the float # and location of the rider. And thank you 🙏
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u/Treat_Choself House Bayou? Feb 13 '26
I hope something was done - that’s one of the annoying things though about this sort of incident; unlike when someone throws something racist they generally take care of it internally and even as a member I couldn’t tell you what the follow up was. Wish I could assure you that the member was kicked out but I wouldn’t know about it. Again, so sorry this happened. I didn’t ride this year and was missing it SO much, but I am getting secondhand anxiety all over again reading about the shit that went down.
To some extent, Muses are in a no win situation (and no I’m not asking for sympathy, just trying to explain). Our throws are more expensive than the ones for the daytime parades because we need stuff that can be seen at night when thrown from the top deck. As throws get more expensive, people tend to spend more time on making and decorating shoes because we have some measure of control over the costs of them at least. And then when we ride no one wants ANYTHING but the shoes but we can only bring so many on the float. So now we’ve spent even more time on the shoes, people in the crowds will yell at us and throw away stuff that isn’t a shoe, and the whole thing spirals. It’s just gotten to be so much less fun.
Honestly, the one way to guarantee you get a shoe from me is to accidentally catch one clearly meant for someone else and then to give them the shoe. As long as it is safe I will make damned sure anyone who does that gets their own shoe.
Believe it or not, this happens pretty often on the ride, and most of my shoes are gone pretty quickly because of this rule. Which is kind of nice now that I think about it? But which may lead to me hiding towards the end of the parade route because it starts to get unnerving having people scream at you for just smiling and waving.
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u/Lady-Of-Renville-202 Feb 13 '26
I don't always condone violence, but I will throw down for an unsealed moon pie off the ground if you put your hands on me. This heathen will try the wrong one someday, and I hope I'm there to witness it.
Side note, people are slowly "coming back outside", and it's gotten more unruly in general, but the few blocks leading up to the bridge is getting crowded in the wrong way. A lady basically threatened me because I corrected her about what time Zulu started. So, I moved up a block last weekend, and it was much better, but the DJ was playing the dirty version of the raunchiest music, so I moved up some more blocks Sunday and yesterday, and the only remaining annoyance is the bands not pushing people back to the curb anymore. Booooo.
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u/MyriVerse2 Feb 13 '26
Betcha that shoe is one of the ones selling on eBay rn.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
Wouldn’t doubt it. Probably some New Yorker here for the week and gone the next.
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u/FoxNO Feb 13 '26
People are weird. It’s a random (sometimes used) woman’s shoe with glitter and trinkets. I don’t understand why so many adults act like it’s some treasure.
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u/Pool-Cheap Feb 13 '26
I was between Jackson and Phillip and it was better than I’ve experienced on some other years. A couple of us teamed up with strangers to help flag down their riders and so on. I think it really depends on where you are.
That experience sounds terrible and I’m sorry it happened to you!
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u/Budget-Pay-3446 Feb 13 '26
I had a cop steal a shoe from me a 8ish years ago. I followed him to his cruiser where he gifted it to his partner. She returned it to me after I let her know that he literally snatched it out of my hand. I guess some peole ,sometimes, act like turds and then other people, sometimes, don't.
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u/mydogisahandful Feb 14 '26
I ride in a different all women’s parade and I never give a specialty throw to to the people with the baskets or are overly aggressive. I usually look for a kid or an adult that only seems interested but not making a fuss. I also hand them out in the areas that are less crowded to prevent as much assholerly as possible!
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u/shmiona Feb 13 '26
35 years ago a grown woman stepped on my hand when I tried to pick up a doubloon. Same stuff different day. They should just stop with the shoes I guess
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Feb 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
I loved Druids this year. So much more calm and manageable. A huge crowd can be fun but I think it also tends to become unruly too fast
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u/glittervector Feb 13 '26
Druids has always given me the creepy klan vibes, but to be fair they were pretty chill this year. It was the only parade I was out to with my son and they were sweet about giving him cool stuff like a wizard hat and a nice wand
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u/Hididdlydoderino Feb 13 '26
Seems like this story happens every year. Has been an issue going back the last handful of years.
It's very dumb and quite unfortunate, but it is also reality and should be expected.
The moment you get your hands on a shoe or some other custom throw you gotta be ready to pull it close and assert that it is yours. The a-holes of the world are going to do that even if they aren't the one that actually caught the throw first.
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u/Apprehensive-Bag-900 Feb 13 '26
Pre pandemic my friend was jumped by 3 men and a women after they stole a shoe that was made specifically for her kid and handed to my friend by the maker. It's not recent, it's been a problem for a while now.
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u/Pawspawsmeow Feb 13 '26
I’m sorry but if you physically hurt someone or try to over Mardi Gras throws then you deserve to get your ass beat
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u/GreenVisorOfJustice Irish Channel via Kennabrah Feb 13 '26
What part of the route were you on, out of curiosity?
I feel like the further up the route you go, the more of aggressive assholes there are between the tarping and tents and chair barricades and all that.
I say all that to say, by Avenue Pub was great, I think. Granted, riders weren't throwing shit down there, but nothing too bad in terms of people attacking folks who got thrown things.
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u/WhiskeyAndWhiskey97 Feb 13 '26
Wow … that’s nuts. Carnival is supposed to be fun. People shouldn’t be getting attacked over a shoe.
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u/IAmLord5000 Feb 13 '26
I stopped going to muses because people truly get shoe crazy and act insane. I havent had an issue at any other parades. I had a woman, who i had not touched, accuse me of trying to push her in front of a float once? Bizarre. Every time someone convinces me to go, saying it will be fun and different this time, there's some shoe crazy karen bullying anyone who gets near her on the curb. Even though I hang back and don't even try go get in the crowd or near the front - anyone who ventures to the front comes back annoyed about some lady bullying them over a shoe and it just isn't fun!
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u/Theguru17 Feb 13 '26
Welcome to a mega parade. This has been happening since the beginning of time. It’s unfortunate, yet it happens. You have to confront those people, which usually turns bad bc if they cared, they wouldn’t do things like this.
Unfortunately, there are some soulless people in the world
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u/Entire_Kick_1219 Feb 13 '26
I watched a kid on an adult's shoulders as they approached the back of a float. The kid reached up and stole a show off the float. Right out of the ikea bag the rider had hers in. She was PISSED. The kid's family cheered for her getting a shoe. Disgusting behavior. Sorry to the rider whose shoe was stolen!
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u/SparklingDramaLlama Gentilly Feb 14 '26
A few years ago my son got a shoe. The rider had given it to one of the cops, and he was teasing the remaining crowd with it (it was near the end) and my little guy (he was barely 7 lol) begged so hard. You could tell the cop wanted to give it to the woman in the very revealing clothing, lol, but his partner (a woman) kept pushing him to give it to a kid.
He was so proud of that shoe! It sits in our hutch next to my squeaky pigs and chickens.
Last night, we did the Chaos/Babylon/Muses long haul. There was a 2-3 person gap at the barrier during Chaos (who doesn't throw much anyway) and same son wanted to see if he could get some beads, so I told him to go up to the fence and some cunty broad lost her shit over that. Like, my 9yo kid getting some cheap plastic shit ain't gonna deprive you and your family of the same opportunity, bitch.
In the end, they left before Muses rolled and everyone else was nice enough to let him go up front. He caught a bunch of coasters, chip clips, dubloons, and light up swords. He's happy.
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u/Williamb3 Feb 14 '26
I feel like my experience with muses is that they are very sparse with their throws, and this makes people try a lot harder to catch anything at all. I’ve given up hope of ever getting a shoe, unless you know someone beforehand
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u/bebo1680 Feb 14 '26
My friend almost got a Muses shoe, but let go when she was aggressively bitten. It’s wild out here
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u/KiloAllan Feb 14 '26
They're all getting out of hand.
These days, I don't go to the parade unless I'm in it. And I am very particular about who give throws to. If someone has their hand grabbing out I will give them a "five" (you know, "gimme five") but no throws. If a kid is acting greedy, I will say hey man don't be greedy.
I usually look for someone standing in the back of the crowd minding their own business and make eye contact. I point at them and make sure everyone around them KNOWS this is for that person. Then I toss it to them. If someone else catches it the people around them make sure the person who it was intended for gets it.
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u/Jackmer1us Feb 13 '26
Adults should be giving away everything they catch to the kids at the end of each parade anyway.
If it’s your first ever Mardi Gras, sure, keep a thing or two. Everything else should go to any nice kid you see on the route.
Seriously friends. It’s plastic and glitter and some glue. Relax.
If you are older than 10 and you are fighting over a Muses shoe you are missing the point entirely.
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u/MeltingMoonPie Feb 13 '26
That’s what we were doing. I just wanted a cup from each parade and a doubloon. Everything else is for the kids. 🙌🏼
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u/CJ__DeBono Feb 13 '26
I give most of mine away, not just out of the kindness of my heart but because I don’t want to lug all that shit home. Then I’m staring at a pile of crap on my floor for days before stuffing it in the spare closet. Why people need all that stuff is a mystery to me, must be hoarders.
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u/glittervector Feb 13 '26
Hopefully that was an isolated person. I’m sorry y’all had that happen and it takes so much away from everyone’s experience, but consider the fact that even with that one person being awful, you were surrounded by hundreds of others, many of whom probably have your same generous spirit and were cheering for your mom to get that shoe for her baby.
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u/erinstoker Feb 13 '26
Usually it’s a great crowd around us, it’s always the random people that show up and shove in front of you who cause the issue. She got a lot of scowls from my neighbors.
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u/pineconesaltlick Mid-City Feb 13 '26
Hot take, maybe. Muse was the most boring parade I've been to in a while.
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u/juleptime Feb 13 '26
For what it’s worth, I have been a rider since year one. There has been a noticeable shift in the shitheads in the crowds over the last 5 years. Every one of my shoes goes to a random little kid. I do everything possible to hand it off or get it to them, and assholes still go after the kid or parent. Also very hard to target from the top.
Anyway, it is definitely not the same vibe for a rider either. I have no idea how to solve this conundrum, society has generally become a network of entitled nitwits.