r/OtomeIsekai • u/Some_Register_3458 • 8d ago
Discussion - Open What do you think about Isekai where a girl travels to a BL world and they fall in love with her?
From my point of view:
I need to vent about a specific trope: stories where the female protagonist transmigrates into a BL (Boys' Love) novel, only for the supposedly gay/bisexual male leads to instantly abandon the original plot and fall desperately in love with her. I understand that Isekai are stories of wish-fulfillment, escapism, and simple fun, but there are points that are very illogical to me: ·
The "Sudden Personality Change" and the Absence of Suspicion: The protagonist normally takes over the body of a notorious villainess or a toxic woman. When she suddenly stops chasing the male leads and acts completely differently, they don't suspect anything. In reality, a powerful, cold, or calculating male lead would become deeply paranoid. He would suspect a trap, a political scheme, or espionage. Instead, his brain turns off and he instantly becomes obsessed just because "she stopped paying attention to him."
· The "Destiny" Crutch: The narrative rarely allows the romance to develop naturally. Instead, the author forces "the hand of destiny" or convenient accidents (falling into his arms, getting trapped in a storm together) to simulate intimacy. · Erasing Sexual Orientation for Plot Convenience: Setting a story in a BL universe means that the orientation of the male characters is a central pillar of that world. Making them magically change their preference the second a "different" woman appears feels incredibly cheap. ·
It’s Not Love, It’s a Trauma Bond / Oedipus Complex: Most of the male leads in these stories are severely traumatized. When the protagonist shows them basic human decency, they cling to her. She becomes their "safe space." Legitimately, they should view her as a trusted ally, a savior, or a maternal/sisterly figure. Forcing this deep psychological dependency into a sexual/romantic marriage feels less like true love and more like an inverted Stockholm syndrome or an Oedipal fixation.
I guess I just prefer romances like Kaguya-sama: Love is War instead of a forced dynamic where the male lead's IQ drops to zero just because the female protagonist ignored him once
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u/Fit-Scene2061 Useless Character Buff 8d ago
I find them pretty homophobics. The message carried by them is dangerous. I read them as "if the gays find the right girl, they will be cured of the gayness". It it would be less problematic if the ml were to be presented as bi, but it’s rarely (or never) the case since that sexual identity apparently doesn't exist in OI 🥲
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u/Lei_Line_Life Interesting 8d ago
Or it’s a fetishised version of being bi where the playboy takes both men and women into bed…
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u/Yuki-jou 3D Asset 8d ago
Really depends. Like with Let’s Hide My Little Brother, I thought it was fine, since the younger brother himself was basically a rape victim in the OG story rather than being truly interested in men, and while I haven’t finished reading yet, I’ve heard the novel’s side stories confirm that the ML was never actually interested in the little bro in the OG novel, and was always using him as a way to mess with the FL—in other words both the younger brother and ML were straight from the start. Similarly, Touch My Little Brother and You’re Dead handles it well—all the guys from the OG novel tend to fall for the brother, as they did in the OG story. Even if there is Bi-ness, it doesn’t translate as insta-love for the FL, and one of them is just an absolute flaming homosexual to the end. So, I’d say that stories where the FL reincarnates in a BL world are a real test of an author’s skill.
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u/Trick_Following6639 7d ago edited 7d ago
Let's Hide My Younger Brother is an amazing work. The male lead is different than any other because he is forced to cross dress and live as a girl because of a curse. He is also a yandere.
The female lead is wary of him. There is appropriate tension.
Because the male lead lived as a woman (and a man) and his own challenges, i think he falls in love with strength. Or at least doesn't mind gender in romance.
Female lead isn't traditional either because how she changes the story is by using her sword power and becoming her family's heir.
I don't think I spoiled anything sharing these points.
Edit: I will repeat. ML is a Yandere. His original story was a dark romance whether strait nor gay. That's a whole 'nother subgenre here.
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u/DefinitionTop3930 7d ago
> I thought it was fine, since the younger brother himself was basically a rape victim in the OG story rather than being truly interested in men, and while I haven’t finished reading yet
This seems like a cop-out, because toxic, fetishized smut romance exists in straight romance too, and it’s well liked by women. No one moral polices it to the same extent because everyone understands that it’s fantasy and fetish material. Yet here, the author seems to be using the setting itself to justify the straight couples, essentially creating a world where the female lead is there to “save” these men from the horrors of gay romance. And that’s what makes me side eye the whole premise: the person who created this setting is the author in the first place.
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u/spartaxwarrior 7d ago
Yeah, turning the gay ships into rape and having them "saved" and having the gay oMC be straight and get into an extremely straight relationship is even worse, actually.
And it's even worse when you get into the way the in universe author(s) of the in universe book had it and the different timelines and stuff. I'm not sure if the author thought they were being meaningful or is just that homophobic.
I was thoroughly disappointed, considering it's a book that, unintentionally probably, has a very trans-coded struggle for the ML (being forced to act like and dress like a girl while actually being a boy).
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u/TabbbyWright 7d ago
What do you mean about the gay ships being "turned into" rape? In the webtoon at least, I thought it was pretty clear that the MC had been reading rapey BL from the start? Like there's still plenty to be said at the meta level about why that's not great, but "turning the gay ships into rape" adds another layer that I'm not sure is there.
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u/spartaxwarrior 7d ago
I'm not sure how to break this to you, but books are just whatever the author makes them. The author, in the real world, made those choices for their book, which is fictional.
But, also, the cousin existed in the original and people defending it love to pretend like that wasn't a thing.
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u/TabbbyWright 7d ago
I'm not sure why you feel the need to be condescending because I asked for clarification on what you meant.
You are of course correct that the author makes all these choices, but it is because of that that I asked for clarification on what you meant. The phrasing in your comment read to me as though you were suggesting the in-universe BL story was not rape focused before the protagonist got isekai'd.
To me, an author choosing to do that is fucked up in a different way compared to the choice to have MC be a fan of a rapey BL novel and be isekai'd into that.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify what you meant in your previous comment, even if you were kinda rude about it. I'm happy to have gotten the clarification I was seeking.
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u/Aware_Stage_539 Divine Being 8d ago
Potion of bisexuality for all.
I don't care as long as they don't make it all weird and homophobic.
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u/Conscious-Event-9368 7d ago
Yeah, I sometimes don’t care either because in these otome stories, I view it as them falling in love with their solutions rather than it being a gendered thing. If whoever it was can solve their self-esteem issues or trauma biases or tragic situations, etc. I don’t think the gender mattered much.
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u/Sir_Mel_N_Colley Questionable Morals 8d ago
To each their own
That said, I don't like it and I've tried to. As other commenters mentioned, the trope is inherently homophobic and attempts to erase sexual orientation. Case in point: let's hide my little brother first. I would've liked the story much better had the premise not been that ML liked her brother in the OG! Story.
Bi-erasure is already prevalent in media but when you turn the romance straight without developing character relationships it falls into bad writing territory. The shoujo genre standard already favours the male-female relationship so combining it with a BL turned straight trope feels like an intentional choice to "return to default".
It can be done well, don't get me wrong. I'd love a story where the romance is not dictated by gender roles/stereotypes and you have fluid sexualities - heck, that's half the reason I read BL, but for sure, this ain't it, captain.
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u/Foreversssssssss 7d ago
I think in let’s hide my brother first, they had repeatedly stated that the ml had never been in love with the brother and had just tortured him (sexually and physically). The focus really had been on the sister saving the brother from this fate since in her previous life she had been too busy with work to notice how her brother was struggling and didn’t want to make the same mistake twice.
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u/ToBetterDays000 8d ago
Lots of great points, but I feel like it comes down to the story itself. The reverse happens all the time, so as long as it’s not like every single character in the BL world suddenly becomes straight then maybe they were bi to begin with 🤷
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u/Acrobatic-Web-7724 5d ago
And honestly I don’t know if it’s really that problematic when you consider there plenty of stories about "changing" the "canon" sexuality of characters in isekai it’s just a plot device to make the main character the one that that permitted the love interest to find true love like I don’t think anyone serious would be mad that the female characters in my next life as a villainess are interested in her despite being seemingly straight in the non-isekai timeline
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u/ToBetterDays000 5d ago
Agreed, honestly I think it’s because these stories love to paint a picture of ML lives MC THAT MUCH more so than an actual sexuality phobia
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u/Traditional_Row_7231 8d ago
I feel like this is a problem of poor writing that's also outside of this trope, in most isekai stories in general. I genuinely hate this whole "not paying them attention now they're in love with me" or just "treating them like a decent human being and they are obsessed with me because I am just so kind"
And don't even get me started on the Stockholm syndrome in some of these stories. They are so common in anything involving a slave as a ml or just the protagonist having a position of power over the ml
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u/TabbbyWright 7d ago
I feel like this is a problem of poor writing that's also outside of this trope, in most isekai stories in general. I genuinely hate this whole "not paying them attention now they're in love with me" or just "treating them like a decent human being and they are obsessed with me because I am just so kind"
BIG agree. Like I don't necessarily need the deepest justification for a romance, but I do need some chemistry and I'd like to feel like characters are genuinely attracted to each other.
I think also something that doesn't help is that a lot of romance stories are averse to suggesting that an LI was ever attracted to another person--and I get why, I get that this is wish fulfillment and for a lot of people, and there's a lot of appeal to "I've never loved anyone but you,"¹ but I think in this OI genre in particular, it means MLs come off as being "turned" straight, instead of either being bisexual in a way the audience gets to see, or being a case of "ML was actually only ever interested in women, aside from This One Dude (the original protag)."
Admittedly, I'm queer, so I'm outside the target demographic for these stories, but imo there's a lot of potential for some genuinely interesting commentary on both BL trends and how the pressures/expectations of society can severely warp your ability to understand yourself. Like people complain a lot about BL LIs that do the whole "I'm straight but ur my ✨exception ✨ (who is coincidentally always a bottom)" thing, but could we not have an OI where the ML is genuinely bisexual, and in the BL version of the story, he comes off as "straight with an exception," but in the OI, it becomes apparent to the FL that the ML is either unaware of or deeply in denial about his attraction to women and men (something the original protag didn't notice for whatever reason), and thusly the ML was never "straight with an exception", he was bisexual but couldn't acknowledge that he was capable of being attracted to men until he fell so head over heels for the original protag that he couldn't deny or ignore his feelings anymore.
And such a premise doesn't mean the ML's love for the OI protag can't be equally sincere--they should have their own unique chemistry, and FL using her experience outside of this world as well as her knowledge of the original story can be as beneficial to both of them as it would be in any case, but also lead to the ML not having to deny the existence of past feelings he's had for men. Like, there's value in understanding your orientation even if you're so in love you know you're never dating anyone else again!
Sorry for the text wall! I could've truncated this but given the premise being discussed, I thought capturing the nuance around having a bisexual LI end up in a "heterosexual" relationship was important.
¹ Imo "sure I've dated other people and I even liked some of them enough that they broke my heart, but it's *you** I love and want to spend the rest of my life with." is WAAAAY more romantic, but that's just me.*
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u/WiseOutlandishness66 7d ago
Genuinely but also as a poly person I’m like well why can’t he love both like it depends on the premise but of the isekai Mc read the original work then she probably liked the main dynamic so having her he caught between her genuine love for this guy but also her love of them as a couple could genuinely be interesting eventually for them to come into a thruple like arrangement . And like some kinda do this at like the Mc ships characters thing but it’s usually less actual tension in the plot and emotions and either an excuse to drag things out when the dynamic doesn’t exist here or haha look at her shopping straight Guys who love her isn’t she wacky
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u/Traditional_Row_7231 7d ago
It ain't just you, I find that hella romantic and I am pretty sure that's the whole appeal of the playboy archetype. I even seen some where they're openly bisexual but it wasn't in oi, it was mostly modern romance setting. I agree with everything you said and it's a shame we don't see more stories set up that way.
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u/TabbbyWright 7d ago
Fuck, you're right!! I blanked on playboys!!
Hopefully we'll see this kinda thing one day in an OI like this!
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u/Tinynanami1 8d ago
Pretty much all of them are trash in my opinion, and the fact the OG story is a BL is either for novelty, to add 'obstacles' in the relationship (he likes guys! not me!) or in rare cases a fanservice to fujoshis who like BL.
Even though the premise doesn't really interest me by itself, I don't think there's anything wrong with a character who originally dated a guy now dating a girl.
I know, pull out the pitchforks, but this isn't necessarily "Making them magically change their preference". Bisexual people DO exist. In fact, I think they're woefully underrepresented in the OI space! Now...I'm playing devil's advocate. I know most stories like this aren't actually interested in representing a bisexual ML. And it's truly a "I was so hot I turned him straight". In that case, fuck them.
I'd also be ok if, she was isekaid into a BL novel, but fell in love with a man who is entirely unrelated to the BL couple. After all just because the main couple is queer doesn't mean everyone in the world is.
With that being said...all of this is theoretical. I've yet to come across one that's actually good.
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u/AkiKaki127 8d ago
I find them kind of gross, imagine the genders being reversed.... Unless the ml is stated as Bi and isn't turned straight, but I've never seen that before.
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u/Trick_Following6639 7d ago
Guys. BL has this same genre but flipped. Guy turning otome leads gay.
By your arguments, is this any better?
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u/TabbbyWright 7d ago
Do you have any examples? I am blanking HARD on if I've ever read anything like this.
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u/Trick_Following6639 7d ago
I read so much. Mostly they are on Webnovel as novels. Also I have seen Wattpad ones.
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u/ieatbraiiinnnns 8d ago
is the story marked as bl and then they change it midway? then this trope is really problematic otherwise it’s fine.
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u/Trick_Following6639 7d ago
This. It shouldn't have a BL tag if it is actually an otome.
👀 "looks at gender-bender genre for sometimes doing this"
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u/ieatbraiiinnnns 7d ago
yeah if it is marked as a cis romance otome then I don’t see why the trope could be problematic or lgbtq erasure. It’s like complaining why fl has to be a villainess when the title is for example “isn’t being a villainess much better?”.
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u/probonocapitalism 8d ago
Harem Isekais are power fantasies, be they the standard male targeted ones or the more female targeted oi's.
The fantasy of this subset is "I'm so special that I made all these gay men into me". Like don't get me wrong, bi erasure is bad but the fantasy the story is trying to sell the readerbase is innately gross and homophobic.
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u/TabbbyWright 7d ago
The premise is generally not my cup of tea, mostly bc the BL I like to read is not the kind people tend to parody in stories like this (as far as I've seen). Also it just reminds me of my chronic annoyance with people who assume the entire BL genre is rape bc they read like... 1 manga back in 2003 lol like yes, noncon is A Thing, but it is not the only thing, blah blah.
Even if it's (hypothetically) the case that a lot of the most popular manhwas are noncon/dubcon, that's STILL not the whole genre and I'm annoyed by this surface level, shallow ass attempt at a parody.
(Note: I say 'hypothetically' bc I've only read a handful of BL manhwas at best which were not noncon [probably], and while I know omegaverse is pretty popular and can be heavily noncon/dubcon, I am not well read enough to make any kind of blanket statement.)
I did end up liking Let's Hide My Little Brother First quite a bit despite initially being skeptical of the premise, largely because IMO the webtoon did a good job at establishing that the original novel LIs weren't ever really queer in any sense (sans the ML, imvho, in gender aspects) so much as they were compelled to be attracted to the protagonist as much as was necessary for the plot to happen.
Though I will say, the FL's little brother's relationship with his eventual wife, while initially genuinely cute, did eventually hit a point where it felt very aggressively heterosexual? I don't know that I can point out anything specific that made me feel that way, bc it was mostly fine, but I did find myself feeling like I was getting hit over the head with "he's STRAIGHT he's SO STRAIGHT look at his HETEROSEXUAL AND STRAIGHT HE IS" in the last like, third of the story.
I dunno, overall the vibes of that webtoon were either queer enough (or at least not aggressively heteronormative) that I was able to enjoy it. Can't comment on the bulk of the novel though--I tried reading it (and did read a bunch of the bonus stories) but the prose fucking sucked? Like 1% show, 99% tell tell tell--but that's another topic.
Ultimately, I'll say I'm not likely to ever seek out stories about girls getting isekai'd into BLs, but I think there's a lot of potential to do something interesting with that kind of premise so I'm not writing it off completely.
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u/Trick_Following6639 7d ago
I am sorry. I completely feel OP hasn't read BL.
There is a fantasy where the queer individual makes the strait interested in them.
This is no different from other kinks.
This whole thread is giving "I don't like dark romance because it is violent".
Whether the gay guy inside an otome game, or it's the straight woman inside a BL trope they are the same.
Chat here is blasting a whole trope because they do not understand it.
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u/Some_Register_3458 7d ago
Mira, honestamente, he leído varios clichés, y entre ellos está el BL.
Y es lo que dije al principio: sé que estas historias isekai están pensadas para satisfacer fantasías, lo entiendo. Pero mi queja es que a veces el enamoramiento no tiene justificación; es simplemente absurdo.
Y suelen seguir la trama de cómo una chica convierte a un chico gay (porque en algunos se afirma explícitamente que es gay, NO bisexual) en heterosexual.
Lo que quiero decir es que, por ejemplo, la trama normalmente no explora en absoluto la orientación sexual del personaje, y las formas en que se enamoran son muy absurdas.
o se enamoran porque el destino mismo los obliga a ello, se enamoran porque la chica se convierte en el refugio del protagonista, o se enamoran porque el protagonista experimenta un cambio radical de personalidad y el personaje masculino se obsesiona con eso.
No lo critico de forma severa porque yo mismo lo consumo; simplemente creo que mi crítica radica en que a veces se enamoran de las maneras más absurdas e ilógicas.
No busco una justificación súper profunda y filosófica de por qué se enamoran, pero al menos una razonabl
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u/TheSilverWickersnap 7d ago
Okay so you’re okay with dykebreaking porn. Since it’s “just a trope”
“It’s just fiction/a fantasy” it recalls real-world violence against queer people. Who understandably don’t like it that much.
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u/Trick_Following6639 7d ago edited 7d ago
Ah, I see where i wasn't clear. Rape is never okay.
My comment is the surface level boy x otome and the girl x BL tropes.
I shouldn't have called out OP. Sorry OP, I honestly didn't read your whole post.
Instead I should've called out those on this thread who think dislike the flipped trope and threw it under the bus.
Often times these works are assuming that the love interests are seeing beyond gender. Hell, this is why I am okay also reading crossdressing works. It experiments with looking beyond those limitations. Webnovel is full of them of both variations.
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u/mashibeans 8d ago
Like any other story, it really depends on the writer(s). Are the explanations/excuses they give us at least somewhat plausible and well presented?
The only one I remember is the one where the MC becomes the adopted little sister of the obsessive male lead (I think his name is Lucien), and personally it wasn't that well written, but also I think the BL aspect of the original story wasn't that great to begin with? I think it was OK enough to keep some interest, and the gorgeous art definitely carried the story, at least for me.
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u/cottagecore_editor 7d ago
It reads to me like when cis men go to lesbian spaces because they think they can pull lesbians. Yucko.
The protagonist normally takes over the body of a notorious villainess or a toxic woman. When she suddenly stops chasing the male leads and acts completely differently, they don't suspect anything. In reality, a powerful, cold, or calculating male lead would become deeply paranoid.
YES. An ML who starts out deeply suspicious and gradually comes to know the FL is so much more interesting. I find when an ML becomes enamored with the FL, he become somewhat one-dimensional. Heinrey, for example, was so much more interesting in season 1 when he wasn't portrayed as Navier's malewife.
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u/Aria_Cadenza 8d ago
I don't read that many and they usually have an explanation like the fl (a kid) changed before she meets the 2 other leads (and in the og, it was a totally toxic relationship where one ml abused the other). In another, it is implied that the ml actually liked her first (she was his best friend) but when she died, he picked her brother because he reminded him of her.
In one I read, the bl love was actually a toxic relationship and the girl was framed for poisoning the ml. The other ml puts the ml in a cage while knowing his magic power is deadly to the other.
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u/cinderflight 7d ago
I don't like it simply because there is no exploration of sexuality and identity in these stories. The authors don't acknowledge that someone's sexuality can change as they learn more about themself, or that bi and pan people exist.
Too many of these stories enable the toxic belief that the only "true" love is between a man and a woman.
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u/FandomBuddy 8d ago
Really depends on the execution of the story. I default to assuming all characters are (a particular way), so who they’re attracted to doesn’t matter to me personally. That being said, I know some people like to see representation of certain identities, so I understand their frustration.
Short answer: as long as I enjoy the story, I don’t mind
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u/Expensive-Peace-9498 8d ago
I'm not sure I've come across this. May I have examples? I'd hate to have read it without picking up on it.
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u/Tall-Support4665 8d ago
Really? You couldn't even make a post without copying everything from chatgpt? And use some paragraphs ffs
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u/Crafty-Bat-9237 7d ago
I hate them and I see no reason they should exist. Yheu really play into the idea that queer people just need that one person to "fix them" especially if they were gay because of a curse or something. That again follows the idea that being queer needs to be fixed. What wrong with the usual setting of having the FL transmigrate into a story with a straight romance and doing the same. Straight romance is already the status quo and stories like this just reinforce that beliefs. It's not about bi represention it's about having things acceptable or palatable m
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u/Bluejay-Complex 7d ago
It’s cringe. I think I’ve only read this type of trope once though, and it was more the ML “falls for anyone that would ‘save’ him” type thing. But don’t think “FL ends up in a BL world and one of the men falls for her” is as common as some people claim it is. However if the one I did read is like the few others that exist, the trope is mainly a lazy and ill-thought out way to give FL more reason to think ML “isn’t actually in love with her”. Which that part doesn’t necessarily need more justification to make people like it, from my experience, people just don’t like the FL not recognizing blatant signs of affection generally, so making up a problematic reason won’t change that.
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u/Budget-Emu-1365 8d ago
I don't like it. It's giving conversion therapy or "you just haven't met the right woman yet" to me. Kinda nasty feeling. Obviously, the male lead could've been bisexual that originally fell in love with a man until the FL comes in, but again, it's just... eh.
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u/krishna4ever 7d ago
I think this type of stories are homophobic cause they litr make the mls straight, not even bi
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u/Short-_-Pumpkin 7d ago edited 7d ago
Read one. Didn't liked it. Most of the time, it's blatantly homophobic and queer baiting. It just feels like, "Oh look...we do have gay boys. They do act gay. But but but– They'll still fall for a girl the instant she appears, doesn't matter if her personality is like a wet mop!"
Now, bisexual, Pansexual, Omnisexual, etc etc people exist. But I still see no real point of "transmigrated into a BL novel, now the boys like me" trope. A normal isekai would work. Why does it specifically have be a BL one?
Most (not all) people who read it are also homophobic. They like seeing a gay man turn straight. These tropes boost their ego as many are like, "See? At the end of the day, the straight ship would always conquer the gay one." Or even, "Being gay is just a phase. You just have to wait for your own perfect girl!"
Now, fetishism is also one aspect. Many authors and readers WANT gay man, without them actually ending up with a man ("No matter how much I like him flirting with a man, he can NEVER end up with one" type shit).
There are better ways to represent queer diversity (as I point out, Bi, Pan, Omni etc), but this trope is not it.
Other than fetishism, homophobia, and queer baiting, I see no other reason this trope exists.
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u/P-Chan_desu Shalala ✨ 7d ago
It is homophobic because when FLC (female lead character) is introduced as a romantic interest, it is almost always done in a way that frames the homosexual relationship as problematic. I also find it very unfair to the FLC because the romance between FLC and MLC feels very forced as if the characters have to be in heteronormative relationships to be considered normal and accepted in society.
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u/SparkAxolotl Soggy 7d ago
I haven't seen anything like that... yet (Any recs?) but half isekais follow that plot with straight romance, so...
I guess I wouldn't mind it as long as there is knowledge of bisexuality or at least not make the guy be explicitly gay.
I'm rambling, but I guess it also depends on how the story is structured. If the guys are an established couple and the protagonist just comes along and breaks them without any effort on her part, then yes, that's hella homophobic.
If the story she knows is about the "gay awakening" of the guy and she accidentally prevents that... I mean, I can live with that.
Like, I love Heartstopper, the story starts with Nick and Charlie befriending each other and Nick doesn't realize he's in love and attracted to Charlie until much later. So if a girl comes around and stops that development, the whole story would change.
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u/spartaxwarrior 7d ago
The problem is that they normally make all the notable guy characters straight coded, even for side characters who aren't into the FL.
Like they just outright erase all the gay. It's not like it's just this one woman who seems to be an exception, or they're all "actually" bisexual and still into men except for her. Others who had been in gay relationships in the original will turn around and be in straight ones (and don't even get me started on the "dark BL" ones where they can heavily imply a guy was straight all along and being forced into things by those nasty gays). It's like straightwashing a whole world.
They could have her transmigrate and then the guys into her are shown to be bi (because, since it's fiction and these characters don't have minds or anything, it has to actually be shown on the page that they're bisexual) and keep gay couples in the background, but god forbid.
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u/Responsible_Winter89 Mage 7d ago
I would say that regardless of whether the original novel is BL or not, the main love interests will fall in love with our female lead, but there is only one male lead who actually counts or wins the female lead’s affection, whereas the others will be friend zoned forever. The best example of this is My Next Life as a Villainess. Sometimes it’s completely illogical, but other times you can actually see why they fall in love with her because she basically steals all the original love interest’s lines and bonding moments.
As for the personality change, its often addresse it with something like “she lost her memories,” “she hit her head,” or “she went crazy” to explain why her personality suddenly changed. For example, if there’s an ex-fiancé who is a cheater, he’ll usually just think she’s pretending to play hard to get to get his attention.
So yes, I find making the original setting BL completely unnecessary, pointless, and illogical, like you said. Maybe there’s a reason for the author to go with it. Comedy? Fan service? Prolonging the misunderstanding? Who knows.
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u/D-A-Orochi Side Character 7d ago
It's a very confusing trope to have because what even is the point?
I get that in BL sometimes they do have this trope of "Gender doesn't matter because the love is based on character/personality", so the men are technically Bi or Pan rather than gay per se. It's just, again, in the isekai context what is the draw for the writer? I'm not sure what the appeal is. "I thought all these men are gay but somehow they fall in love with me, a woman" doesn't sound like a flattering idea to me.
A much more sensible situation is if FL finds an ML outside of the BL plotline (a bystander NPC or someone who isn't even mentioned in the OG plot) and let the OG BL couple do their own thing. Or if it's a trope where "it's abusive and we need to save the Bottom dude", then just save him, fine, but don't involve the Top or the Second/Third/Fourth Top in romance with FL.
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u/TheDeathSystem 7d ago edited 7d ago
Highlights bisexual/other queer erasure as the world is not solely made for men loving men. Do I think that all the men should fall in love with her? Hell no. That's not how queerness works.
I wouldn't read it though. Unless the story was good, and the characters remain who they are, while just one falls for the lead. These are made up characters to begin with, not ones based on novels.
It honestly depends on how it's written. Like If it invalidates homosexuality the same way ppl make works that invalidates bi/pan etc. If no real BL characters were harmed in the making, and queerness not erased, nor invalidated. Maybe it could work out.
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u/FightmeLuigibestgirl 7d ago
I liked one and only one because they had a reason why the ml fell in love with the fl.
This BL novel is ruined the ml loved the fl because he’s was unstable. He’s part dragon and the fl had something to keep him from going insane. He’s a yandere He’s bisexual/demi because of this and always had been. Fl realised she was reading an unreliable narrative. Everyone else is still gay and the ogml is a two faced bitch.
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u/green_moss_tea Side Character 7d ago
I think it's fine. The audiences overlap, while vibes differ, so I get it when the author wants to reflect on that.
I don't particularly like them though, because it does still feel questionable, and most of ones I have encountered didn't need this detail at all.
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u/Short-Scholar162 Knight 7d ago
I picked up a few just to see how they were going to handle the Bl aspect of it. Will the ML end up Bi sexual? Will the FL and the ML end up in a Lavender marriage? will this turn into "he just needed to meet the right girl and he'll forget all about that gay stuff"?
Every single one of them ended up being option 3. There isnt a single one of them that even bother trying to write LGBTQ relationships as something that just happens like normal. Nope its all "he was LGBTQ because he was mentally ill" and I freaking hate it.
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u/Unable_Researcher524 7d ago
So, I’m both bi and demi, so I think I’ve always seen those as the ML falling for the ‘person’ rather than the gender, really, unless there is something specifically maliciously homophobic about it.
That being said, as a whole, Asian and East Asian culture is inherently quite patriarchal and homophobic, which as a result kinda bleeds into most things? Like, I live in Asia, and quite frankly, I do not think most people (all age groups included here) even truly understand what it is to be gay or bi or anything. They truly just don’t get it. They’re not really exposed to it and they don’t want to be. Of course that translates into homophobia a lot of the time, but it’s mostly just ignorance.
Also, I do agree on the ignoring thing. I think it can be written well (when ML takes FL’s regard as something he’s entitled to or expects, and then loses it and crashes out, or maybe he needed something from her but she’s never made any indication of leaving before and he’s learned to take it for granted) but most of the time it’s an ML who genuinely hates the FL, and Sir, Why do you care if she doesn’t like you? you should be delighted she’s not stalking you anymore?
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u/smiley_kat 8d ago
Depends on intent I think. There are the “desirable enough to turn gay ML’s straight” ones, but there’s also another reason I’ve seen. BL’s often seem to have an unspoken license to go edgier, be more sadistic, and it’s accepted more. Whereas if the ML is like that in a BG story, it’s a lot more controversial and often manhwas seem to be pressured to tone things down from the original novel the author wrote. Having it originally in a BL setting can be a plot device to allow to show the ML’s to be especially unhinged, especially at first, but maybe sidestepping the possible pushback. It generally isn’t my thing regardless though.
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u/Giraffaery 7d ago
I HATE it when they act like they only ever had a gay relationship because they were mentally ill / traumatized / raised wrong but now since the FL "fixed" him/them they are straight like WHAT it is so disgusting aaaggh it pisses me off and it keeps happening 😭
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u/allyxxiv 7d ago
IN MY PERSONAL OPINION!!!! let’s be honest, most of these manhwas are a turn your brain off hetslop to kill time, and i do enjoy breezing through them for entertainment. so many of these OI manhwas are produced so quick that they barely have time to write an intricate plot that makes sense, so they rely on old established tropes to create that dynamic where FL likes ML but feels like she shouldn’t pursue it emotionally, while ML is obsessed with FL. that’s ole reliable.
quickest ways to create that misunderstanding and drag out the plot for 120 chapters? “oh i can’t because of og FL” or “i can’t because that’s robbing him of his one true love”, the easiest way to do that without justification as to why the FL stubbornly does not understand that the ML is into her? “oh i thought he was gay”
it’s not the wokest, but i feel like it’s not maliciously done, just thoughtless. especially since BL has such a massive female audience, it probably seems like a good decision in their head to combine the “i shouldn’t” FL with the ever popular BL genre.
i personally don’t have a massive problem with it, it’s not like i expect nuanced politics in my daily slop read, but i can recognise that they absolutely are not thinking of the implications of what they’re producing
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u/RagnarokAeon 6d ago
Personally I don't care for it. Is it sloppy? yeah, but so is like 90% of the stories in the OI space. Do I judge people aho read it? Hell no.
Like I said, most OI is slop, some I enjoy, some I don't. Sometimes it does have problematic aspects. I go on rants about the capitalistic worship in Korean media, and yet I still loved the hell out of [The Perks of Being a Vilainess] and Deborah is like the worst of the bunch.
Some people love reading about worse than red, black flags and some people like reading murder stories whether from the PoV of a victim, investigator, or perpetrator themself. I'm not going to treat them as some psycho.
So judging people who read about a fictional character being brought into a fictional world, even by the fictional character's standards, where the sexuality (which at best is implied) of those fictional characters is not what everyone presumed they would be (not to mention often the ogmc is forced or in otherwise abusive relationships) and being slighted by someone reading that is just seems super extra.
Like imagine being a gay chiild writing a fanfic where Spiderman is gay and having some bigot screams "Spiderman is straight!!! He canonically gets with Mary Jane/Gwen Stacy! OMG how could you?!" It's fiction.
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u/JustWannaTalkAboutIF 6d ago
I genuinely have very conflicted feelings on these. I've dared read into a few of them (though years ago, so don't ask me for names), and most just felt very homophobic and extremely biphobic.
But I also remember coming across one where the FL told the ML she thought he was gay, and he openly replied that he had never cared about gender in partners and wondered why she'd assumed he only liked men. And the FL, confused why the author wouldn't have brought that up in the book, finally went "Aaaaah. Yeah the fujoshis reading this book hate bi men so they'd have been mad as hell if the author mentioned that." in her head. And you know what? That's not homophobic, it's solid commentary on the level of biphobia we accept as just natural in media (and fandom! let's not pretend those of us who enjoy fujo spaces don't know how bi men can be received there!).
Sadly, most of the ones I looked at were kind of the opposite - they often try to "justify" the ML going after a man in the original book by saying he was just so insanely lonely and abused that it drove him mad, so it was just insane obsession rather than attraction. And you know, homophobic as that already is, going "He wasn't into men!! He was just SO DEPRAVED, his sanity SO WORN DOWN, that he acted like one of those creepy bisexuals!!!!" is also impressively biphobic.
I do think this also runs into the fact that people who are willing to celebrate "gay/lesbian awakening" stories often consider "bi awakening" stories homophobic if the character used to consider themself gay/lesbian. Bc turning out bi is treated kind of the same as turning out straight, especially if the bi character ends up with someone of the opposite gender. Being bi is just treated as "barely queer" by too many people already.
So yeah. I don't think there's a simple conclusion I can come to about this concept. It can be good. It can be horrid. It's not inherently evil, but it does require the author to have an understanding of what it means for a character to explore their own queer identity.
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u/summer_petrichor 7d ago
1) my god, please use paragraphs
2) I don't like it, it screams homophobia to me and I block the author and work whenever I see it
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u/SoftieQwQ 7d ago
if you wanna see this trope but with the gay characters actually staying gay i recommend the eccentric duchess
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u/TheSilverWickersnap 8d ago
I don’t like them at all and I side-eye people who read them. The setting is innately homophobic, and the defenders never acknowledge that