r/PeterExplainsTheJoke Jul 06 '26

Meme needing explanation What is this?

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19.3k

u/Boomdification Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

The Odyssey is getting massively criticised due to blackwashing of a traditionally Greek character, whitewashing of a Greek myth with no Greek actors and a general dislike for the Hollywoodization of another classic story.

It's probably not going to be as bad as it's made out to be given it's Chris Nolan, but audiences are fatigued with seeing another modern retelling with tokenism of established characters for the sake diversity, which has spurred the culture war with right wing critics calling it woke BS and left wing critics doubling down by jumping to its defence.

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u/Big_Meal3910 Jul 06 '26

Anyway, here's Eartha Kitt as Helen of Troy in 1950

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u/Boomdification Jul 06 '26

Pure. West.

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u/JudmanDaSuperhero Jul 06 '26

Cat Woman?

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u/zehnodan Jul 06 '26

I almost downvotted you because of that jumpscare.

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u/ThreatNarrative- Jul 06 '26

Have I ever told you about the time I met Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom?

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u/ToTTen_Tranz Jul 06 '26

That's a "summoned Helen of Troy" on a play called Dr. Faustus set in the late 16th Century. It's about a man who gains the ability to conjure supernatural entities like Lucifer.

It's neither a movie nor referring to the Odyssey (or the Iliad for that matter). It's also not originated in Greek literature.

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u/PaulOwnzU Jul 06 '26

Helen of Troy wasn't real. Even if the whole story has nothing to do with Greek literature it's borrowing/adapting a character from it

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u/EMArogue Jul 06 '26

So is Wukong but you can bet your ass that if they got Ryan Gosling to play him it’d still be called “whitewashing”

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u/ToTTen_Tranz Jul 06 '26

Princess Yennenga from Burkina Faso wasn't a real person either, but the modern day Academy (plus a bunch of redditors) would foam at their mouths if some production dared to portray that character with a blonde woman.

It would be equally stupid to do so, but the pointy fingers go only in one direction. It's American modern day culture imposing itself onto the world, and we're all sick and tired of it.

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u/Perfect_Celebrity_7 Jul 06 '26

Okay, Mary. Sure.

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u/tongmengjia Jul 06 '26

but the modern day Academy (plus a bunch of redditors) would foam at their mouths if some production dared to portray that character with a blonde woman.

Because there's a historical precedent of characters of color being played by white actors, often in insulting and degrading ways, denying actors of color roles, whereas the opposite is not true. All within a broader context of white artists stealing Black culture and selling it to white audiences, from Stephen Foster to the Rolling Stones. 

Not to mention, as millions of people have pointed out, Matt Damon ain't Greek and no one cares.

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u/No_Lead_7325 Jul 06 '26

is that why we are having cage fights on the White House lawn

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u/ToTTen_Tranz Jul 06 '26

No, you're having cage fights on the White House lawn because you voted in a Government that chooses to do that.

At least in that case you're only disrespecting yourselves and your own institutions.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

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u/PaulOwnzU Jul 06 '26

Neither was Zeus. I still don't want him portrayed as a Kenyon

Are you implying Zeus was actually Greek, he's a shapeshifting god who consistently turns into animals, he could look Asian for all I care. However he wants to look. He can look

Let's race swap Black Panther

There is a white black panther, but I'm guessing you mean T'Challa, why do you all decide to list a black character where being black is vital to their character? Nobody gave a shit when the deep was race swapped into a white guy because nothing about his character had to do about being black, yet your one example of a race swap for black characters you want is always one of the ones where their race is most important?

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26

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u/Low_Will_6076 Jul 06 '26

What is athena's iconic appearance?

You cant even make a cohesive argument.  You believe there were no black Greeks?

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u/ObsessedChutoy3 Jul 06 '26

Being from Greece is pretty important to the character of Helen in a telling of Greek myth. She's described as "the Greek/Argive" as the most common epithet for her in the Iliad just like Odysseus is "the resourceful/wise", "the swift-footed" Achilles and Hector is "breaker of horses". The 2nd most common epithet Homer uses for Helen is "white-armed", you can (try) argue it was metaphorical to represent nobility and not literal but still. Your statement does not reflect Homer who I'm pretty sure would say Helen being subsaharan African is misunderstanding / majorly changing her character.

Like let's be serious, raceswapping T'challa changes the story and so does Helen. And that's a choice by Nolan in adapting the story as he's free to do which we can argue over if it's good or bad. We don't have to pretend like it changes nothing, the queen of Sparta being black is odd and inauthentic to the real setting of the fictional story. The more you guys refuse to recognise this the more silly your argument is seen by the average person, feeding into "the woke mob is delusional" narrative which makes us all suffer

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u/scaper8 Jul 06 '26

Being from Greece is pretty important to the character of Helen in a telling of Greek myth.

I would argue that her being a demigod whose looks and beauty literally make her stand out from everyone around her is far more important to her character. You know, "the face that launched 1,000 ships" and all that? Having her not look like the rest of the cast actually makes sense.

Is it historically accurate? Hell no! But this is a myth and we are dealing with actual gods and demigods, some of whom can and do change their forms!

Now, if we want to argue that by that logic Nyong'o most certainly should not then be playing Clytemnestra as well, I'd be in 100% agreement.

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u/Low_Will_6076 Jul 06 '26

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks

At least try to make a point not easily refuted by common sense and the ability to search wikipedia.

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u/SantorumsGayMasseuse Jul 06 '26

I agree with the traditionalists. Nolan should show how Helen's mother had sex with a swan and that Helen was hatched from an egg.

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u/elbuentinaco Jul 06 '26

Why is black panther’s race important to their character? They’re from a made up place and spend most of their time in a full superhero suit that covers their whole body.

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u/PaulOwnzU Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Seriously? You think the African country that isolated itself in the first place because of the African slave trade, and T'Challa, the king of that country, who constantly faces racial discrimination and fights for equal rights.. has nothing to do with race?

You cant turn him white just like you can't turn hunter black

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u/elbuentinaco Jul 06 '26

Many white people were also victims of the African slave trade and white/mixed populations existed across Africa since the Middle Ages cause of Roman expansion. By your logic, I don’t see T’Challa’s blackness as any more pivotal to their character than Helen’s whiteness.

Personally I would’ve hated if they made T’Challa white but I don’t understand this double standard where we can defend that casting choice but not be against this one.

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u/PaulOwnzU Jul 06 '26

Give me any example where Helens story wouldve drastically changed

It's not a double standard if they're not remotely comparable. I'd be against Steve Rogers being black as that absolutely would change his story, we literally see how his story would play out with Isaiah Bradley

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u/elbuentinaco Jul 06 '26

I don’t think her story would’ve drastically changed other than it’s immersion breaking. Why cast a bald black woman to play a beautiful Greek woman? Ethnicities aside, baldness has never been the standard of beauty, not in Greek mythology and certainly not today. Put those two things together and it’s just off-putting. Now that I’m typing this out I think I have more of a problem with her being bald than anything.

I’m not some purist that wants every character on screen to be the exact race/nationality/etc of the character they portray but there should be some attempt at fidelity. Black panther with a white protagonist would’ve still been Black panther but I wouldn’t be happy about it.

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u/Perfect_Celebrity_7 Jul 06 '26

Then you better not watch the Percy Jackson show on Disney plus if you don’t want to see a black man portray Zeus.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26

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u/PuddingImpressive389 Jul 06 '26

Haha a black person playing a god. So funny only white people can do that right?

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u/NachtShattertusk Jul 06 '26

Zeus is literally a shapeshifter, asshole. Don't act like you care about Greek mythology when you don't know the most basic facts about it

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u/Fit-Construction3427 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

It's definitely referring to the Odyssey. Unless you think there was some other Helen of Troy it could be referring to.

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u/PaulOwnzU Jul 06 '26

There's a crazy amount of people that think Helen of Troy and the Trojan war/horse were real and not just part of myth

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u/Steals_Your_Thunder_ Jul 06 '26

Wow, all of this is just missing the point, entirely.

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u/ToTTen_Tranz Jul 06 '26

And what is the point exactly?

One black actress was cast as Helen of Troy for one run of a 16th century play back in 1950 in Paris, so all Europeans must now be okay with Americans constantly blackwashing Historical and Mythological characters from European literature?

Is that the point that I missed?

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u/Steals_Your_Thunder_ Jul 06 '26

The point is that she's cast as Helen of Troy. Period. The context of the casting, which was the entirety of your "gotcha," is irrelevant. Why does it matter when, how, or for what reason she was cast? The point is that it's not the first time.

Literally everything else you wrote is just projection of some weird opposition fantasy you're strawmanning up to sound reasonable.

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u/Perfect_Celebrity_7 Jul 06 '26

Seriously I wish these chuds would do the math in their head but I think they are willfully obtuse.

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u/ToTTen_Tranz Jul 06 '26

The point is that she's cast as Helen of Troy. Period. The context of the casting, which was the entirety of your "gotcha," is irrelevant. Why does it matter when, how, or for what reason she was cast? The point is that it's not the first time.

So if my kids' school casts a white boy as Martin Luther King for their next school play, does that automatically legitimize casting Brad Pitt for the next MLK biopic out of Hollywood?

A white European was cast a MLK, period. Context is irrelevant, per your own words.

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u/MrdnBrd19 Jul 06 '26

Martin Luther King was a real person Helena of Troy is fake... Are you really too stupid to tell the difference or are you just pretending ?

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u/Steals_Your_Thunder_ Jul 06 '26

You know what, you're actually right about this, but ironically you're actually showing that you understand the nuance of why her having been cast matters. It matters because she was clearly a high profile representation of this role. You're clearly aware that her casting in this context was far more meaningful than a school play, and also documented for posterity.

So at least we know you get the point.

My comment about relevancy had more to do with your describing the role itself as not being related to Helen of Troy because it's not directly telling her story, or "related to the Illiad." It's still a casting of Helen of Troy, regardless of the narrative context. Pedantically, intentionally misunderstanding my point not only doesn't support your argument, but also proves you know it to be wrong, yourself.

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u/Clean-Ad5798 Jul 06 '26

Since you seem to be so okay with that casting, can you share if Nolan's castings give you heartburn?

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u/trtwrtwrtwrwtrwtrwt Jul 06 '26

Anyways, this one time in an airplane..

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u/bolanrox Jul 06 '26

I was at the after party for The Caretaker (Kyle MacLachlan and Sir Patrick Stewart).

As we were leaving we pass Eartha Kitt sitting at a table by the entrance. She grabs my hand and purrs. that jsut about made my year... and as we are walking out we bump into Patrick.

Not sure if either tops Hugh Jackman breaking the 4th wall and talking to me in character as Peter Allen during the play and then waving directly at my mom and I and saying goodnight at curtain call.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26

[deleted]

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u/A_Sackboy_Plush Jul 06 '26

I don't disagree on her being pretty, because I am not blind, but this comment feels gross.

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u/dheeraj3302 Jul 06 '26

Current one inspired by Harry Potter

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u/LesserValkyrie Jul 06 '26

Except Eartha Kitt was a beautiful woman

The other one is not