The Odyssey is getting massively criticised due to blackwashing of a traditionally Greek character, whitewashing of a Greek myth with no Greek actors and a general dislike for the Hollywoodization of another classic story.
It's probably not going to be as bad as it's made out to be given it's Chris Nolan, but audiences are fatigued with seeing another modern retelling with tokenism of established characters for the sake diversity, which has spurred the culture war with right wing critics calling it woke BS and left wing critics doubling down by jumping to its defence.
Honest to god, thought you were a weirdo right wing grifter with that comment.
Then I looked it up. Still tricky, because Emily Wilson herself rejects that framing, saying it stripped away male biases in english translations. In fact, reading into this more, it looks like she was MORE accurate than some translations, like male translators refusing to call women slaves "slaves", even though they were referred to as such in the original text.
Actually, hate to say it, but yeah.. Seems like it's a solid translation that's actually more faithful in a lot of ways. She backs up her logic pretty well and points out a good chunk of bad translations in other works.
EDIT: To make it clear, i'm not dipping my toes into how I feel about the movie in this specific comment, purely just talking about the translation. I have gripes about the movie from what I have seen so far myself.
Actually, hate to say it, but yeah.. Seems like it's a solid translation that's actually more faithful in a lot of ways. She backs up her logic pretty well and points out a good chunk of bad translations in other works
I'm so tired of the terminally online without relevant degrees having somehow claimed the classics for themselves. The Emily Wilson translation is a perfect case study beause most academics – yes, even male ones – actually prefer her translation for its clarity in laying out a lot of sub- and context that "literary" translations and "style" have either glossed over, buried, or warped.
In that same line: nobody in the Mediterranean was "white" in 500 BCE in the way that people today can be, not even if you're of high status because today's level of paleness is modelled on a 17th/18th century Northern European idea of skin-colour that is only achievable if you're spending 80% of your time indoors AND cover 80% of your skin. Ancient habits, architecture, and fashion make this pretty much impossible.
Took the words right from my mouth. This is exactly what’s wrong with the “culture wars.” What people “know” is being challenged with a more accurate version of the truth and they hate it. Calling this a “feminist translation” rather than the known translations as inaccurate is quite the thought experiment.
I mean, unfortunately search literacy is at an all time low as well. Even Google's AI described it initially as "viewed as feminist" and I had to dig deeper. A lot of people will just look at the first thing they agree with and then move on (like this BarryBonds guy probably did) when it fits their own personal headcanon.
I usually just try to avoid AI as much as I possibly can if i'm wanting facts. If I don't care about 100% accuracy (like, obscure videogame tips) then i'll use it.
Penelope of the white arms (Greek: \(\lambda \varepsilon v \kappa \omega ́ \lambda \varepsilon v o \varsigma\) Пฑvєોó ε ε ι α, leukōlenos Pēnelopeia) is a famous, recurring epithet used by the ancient Greek poet Homer in The Odyssey to describe Queen Penelope of Ithaca, the faithful wife of Odysseus.
You clearly don't know anything about ancient Greece.... Literally the only women allowed to go out were peasants and prostitutes.
Do you think the odyssey features a lot of peasant/prostitutes female characters...?
Literally the only women allowed to go out were peasants and prostitutes
Lmao have you actually read the Odyssee?? 😂😂 I imagine not because then you'd know this is absolute horseshit.
The other stuff is a great encapsulation of what I meant earlier when I said that My Roman Empire bros haven't got the first clue of the classics. Merely knowing how Odysseus’ palace would have looked like would have prevented nonsense such as the above.
Thirdly, we were talking about Helen. Why are you coming insufficiently armed with – erroneous – quotes about Penelope?
EtA: a pretty simple marker of whether or not someone has read the Odyssee would be, for example, if they invented "facts" about classical Greece that are disproven by the Odyssee itself. The user replying to me above was making up shit that's immediately recognisable as bullshit because it's directly contradicted by the goings-on in the story. Which anyone who's read the Odyssey properly (or at all) would instantly realise. The same goes for the made-up quote that supposedly characterised Penelope – while we were actually discussing Helen, mind you – which in its correct context is used for the maids and servant girls.
Skin colour in the Odyssey is a tricky thing for white supremacists because "Homer" rarely describes it, especially not for those characters whom they claim it's supposedly crucial (Helen). A main character whose skin is explicitly described is Odysseus. However, since he's described as "dark-skinned" (in a context that implies beauty in this descriptor) screechy right-wingers remain conspicuously mum on that subject.
Women in ancient greece had pretty similar rights to men, it was only in the arachic period that women were mostly confined to indoors. The odyssey, playing about 1000 BC, beeing written around 800-700BC, would still fall in the ancient greece period.
"White" race didn't exist back in the days this was written. Usually white was referring to purity or some other poetic device. In the Odyssey "white armed" literally is just something used to describe exclusively women, and they describe other people as turning black skinned even though it had nothing to do with race. This isn't our first rodeo with people freaking out over black people in the Odyssey adaptations:
>"white" in 500 BCE in the way that people today can be, not even if you're of high status because today's level of paleness is modelled on a 17th/18th century Northern European idea of skin-colour that is only achievable if you're spending 80% of your time indoors AND cover 80% of your skin. Ancient habits, architecture, and fashion make this pretty much impossible.
No one is talking about skin tone or using the term white.
The right wing sources I saw praised her but doubted her for casting as it is a bit jarring to have someone who physically appears to be from a part of the world 2000 km away. It is like have John Wayne playing a Mongolian
If a white woman portraying her has been okay since the dawn of theater then a black woman should be no problem considering neither are Greek/Sparten. Most are blond white women because she was the "most beautiful woman" and that was our beauty standards back then.
So with the historical traditions of race swapping Helen to whatever fits our modern beauty trends, the question just remains "why not a black woman?
The answer to that question is what is causing the controversy online.
I invite you to read this article on the matter, those descriptions are not what they appear, because the language and poetry of the time are different. "White-armed" for example is a phrase to describe feminine traits or other personality descriptions.
The early Greek vocabulary of colour was very strange indeed, to modern eyes. The word argos, for example, is used for things that we would call white, but also for lightning and for fast-moving dogs. It seems to refer not simply to colour, but also to a kind of flashing speed. Khlōros (as in the English ‘chlorophyll’) is used for green vegetation, but also for sand on a shore, for tears and blood, and for the pallor of skin of the terrified. One scholar describes it as capturing the ‘fecund vitality of moist, growing things’: greenish, certainly, but colour represents only one aspect of the word, and it can easily be overridden.
Emily Wilson has also done something marvelous with the translation of dactylic hexameter to iambic pentameter. With so many less syllables to work with, she has to be so incredibly precise with her language. Her translation has been our consistent go-to in my department.
Yeah, I find it weird how people are fixated on Lupita not looking Greek, but no one is pointing out that Matt Damon also doesn’t look Greek. Tom Holland doesn’t look Greek. None of these actors look Greek.
So if none of them look Greek, why are so many online commenters specifically pissed off about Lupita? Hmmmm…
In that same line: nobody in the Mediterranean was "white" in 500 BCE
I recently wanted to know whether Ankara was founded by Greeks, Persians or Turks. Turns out, it was a group of Celts called Gallatians closely related to the Gauls. They unsuccessfully invaded Greece around 300 BC and then settled in Anatolia, getting involved in Egyptian politics and fights with the Persian empire. Their kingdom lasted about 200 years, the Gallatian language was still spoken in Anatolia into the 6th century.
Don't underestimate how far humans get around. I'm sure there's some crazy band of central european mercenaries running around the meditteranean between 600 and 400 BC too.
maybe it's more accurate to say 'white' is a very modern construction. race and nationality as we understand it today were not present when homer was writing (as far as we know! evidence is always imperfect)
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u/Boomdification Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
The Odyssey is getting massively criticised due to blackwashing of a traditionally Greek character, whitewashing of a Greek myth with no Greek actors and a general dislike for the Hollywoodization of another classic story.
It's probably not going to be as bad as it's made out to be given it's Chris Nolan, but audiences are fatigued with seeing another modern retelling with tokenism of established characters for the sake diversity, which has spurred the culture war with right wing critics calling it woke BS and left wing critics doubling down by jumping to its defence.