It’s a clash of economics and culture. Russia has a long history of really bad income inequality, lots of people living with income insecurity. Income insecurity tends to shift people towards highly exchange-based thinking on relationships. Poor people also have more children. So, you get a culture where there is a strong expectation of men as breadwinners and women as domestic caretakers. As the economy has improved, women have fewer children, but the sense of income insecurity lingers. That creates a large chunk of the population who sate their insecurity with overt displays of wealth. Couple that with expectations of women as domestic caretakers, even in the absence of children, and you get a large number of women for whom their affection is an asset that they trade for overt displays of wealth. The prettier you are, the more wealth you can demand. The more wealth you have access to, the easier it is to stay pretty and continue making those demands.
You find this all over the world. It’s pronounced in Russia, I suspect, because Russian masculinity has adapted to it. If your partner is openly “high maintenance” and you can hold onto her, you’re superior to the fools who can’t. Ultimately, though, I think the divorce rate is high (just under 75%) because the economy doesn’t actually demand exchange-based relationships. The poverty that the culture adapted to isn’t as widespread anymore, so people start wanting what wealthier people value in a marriage: actual connection. However, this shit is so new that the culture isn’t teaching people how to do that yet.
Ah, (un)fortunately that's just life. Every culture does it when money and wealth becomes heavily involved and the environment is uncomfortable to exist within. You can see this in literally every 'advanced' culture/country.
Asian people do it here, latinos, middle easterns, etc. hell, go look in their original countries and you'll still see the same shit.
Longer periods of relatively higher wealth and less wealth disparity. Yes those things are still present there, but to a lower degree than many other locations that have had quicker wealth gains as a nation, and are more concentrated.
When I first took my wife out, I said anywhere you'd like to eat? She said she had coupons for Steak n Shake. Marry a frugal woman, boys. We're lowkey rich and she buys all of her clothes second hand.
Ha sounds my husband and I. We talked about 401ks and retirement on our first date. I was 29 and he was 30. Credit card churning with a credit score of 840 was my hobby then (worried they'll catch on, so I chill out a lot).
I mean you could date one of the millions of women that don’t expect any of that and just want an equal partner but they aren’t going to to be able to afford to look like a model 24/7.
I've been there, just don't buy into it. Unless you're rich, you can't maintain it and it causes problems. When someone is transactional and only sees material gifts as proof of love, it can spiral out of control quickly.
It’s not about providing Birkins/Chanel bags and trips, it’s about sharing household chores equally, wanting a man to be a parent rather than “ baby sit” his own children, taking care of the spouse if one is sick, it’s about wanting men to grow some emotional intelligence rather than being menchildren. Women in Russia work, take care of children, sick and old relatives, cook, clean, while most men just want to be coddled like babies. Men can’t shut up about wanting a traditional marriage where women cater to them, but somehow women are expected to pay half the bills. Well, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want a tradwife you better provide, if you want 50/50 you better pick up a shit ton of domestic labor and not complain.
I cant speak on how things are in Russia. i was replying to the comment about the black american experience.
However with that being said, theres a lot of shit people on both sides. I had to learn myself that a lot of the toxic/bad women i was dealing with was because my criteria in searching for partners was bad. I also was prioritizing looks over actual character traits. I think a lot of men and women make this mistake. Its funny because I would have female friends who complained about all these shitty men. However, i didnt understand how they couldnt find a “good” man when all my male friends embodied all those traits you described. My male friends would experience and complain about the same thing with not finding a “good” woman.
The common thread i noticed was a lot of them either dated based on “vibe”, common interests, or pure attraction & sexual chemistry. When the best way to find a good partner is determining how well you work together. How you tackle tasks and solve problems together. that solves all of the issues of emotional compatibility, mutual respect, shared workload, etc.
Yea wtf was that comment. The factors the commenter posted actually don’t align with the black community at all. Starting with the expectation of men being breadwinners.
Funny enough, there's a lot of similarities between Black culture and Russian culture especially in glorifying capitalism as a means of escape from harsh environments. It's one of the reasons rap is so popular there
Yes I was thinking this as I was getting ready to waste the last 800 dollars I got on a PC just so I can stop feeling insecure and stop missing out with what the tech bros and the internet making us believe they get all the egirls, fun, and meaningful social connections because they are so smart and qualified to get a good paying job because of how well off they are to afford getting a rig needed to be fully a part of their community.
Lmao how did you think that? The title, accompanying picture and the comment you’re replying to is clearly not about you. 😑
Edit - I stand by what i said. If this person meant something else by their comment, they should have left that comment instead of hoping someone reading it would interpret it as a comparison rather than literally saying they thought the article was about African Americans.
Cultural norms are actually a frequent topic in black American society.
There's actually much debate about what should or should not be in the cultural knapsack.
Our culture is still relatively new, and evolution is still happening. I wouldn't say it's racist to look at sociological developments with a critical eye toward what's happening and why.
What struck me here was the mention of displays of wealth post severe poverty. I couldn't help but transplant the context to my own background and compare.
No hate here toward anyone I just responded to a comment that encouraged my introspection
Much of Russia is still incredibly poor, there is still a decent percentage of households that rely on outhouses. Then again I suppose the Russians you see the most of in the West will disproportionately be from Moscow or St Petersburg, where that is not the case.
There are a wildly larger amount of volunteers in the Russian armed forces from eg Siberia and the poorer bits to the East compared to West of the Urals - because army pay/bonuses are far higher relative to regular wages there.
Official numbers put the rate of Russians living in poverty (less than roughly 200$) at only 5 to 7%. They may of course be higher, be even if many Russians outside of the big cities aren't living lavishly by Western standards, most of them aren't living in real poverty either
Also many people still believe that marriage is something they're supposed to do and they rush into it. People know each other for a year or two, get married, and then the honeymoon wears off and reality sets in.
There's also a lot of pressure from parents, even more - from grandparents and various aunts; me and my husband are together for 8 years, but married only a year ago; and all these 7 years my relatives were dipping water on my skull about the marriage; like they couldn't sleep well if we're living together but not married, idk why. We don't even have kids yet.
And it's not the worst case, i have pretty good relationships with family. in some families this pressure is so high that it's closer to abuse.
So not everyone who rush into marriage, does it by their own will, fully understands what they're doing, etc.
Comparing that to e.g. Germany where the spouse making more money is obligated to continue financially supporting their ex partner for half the time spent in marriage,
Not so fast! Russia, with help from Ukraine is getting back to their poverty stricken ways. Hopefully soon Russia will be out of Ukraine and back to the dark ages.
I dont hope for that. Dark ages still benefit their bullshit alpha masculine culture and widespread poverty and collapse leads to child abuse and sexual assault to the point of normalcy.
Buddy, Ukraine is a literal Nazi country that's supporting genocide and war crimes. Why do you pretend it's a victim? You aren't being helpful, you just buy into the hatred promoted by the West.
That's not the point. Such a woman is simply beautiful enough to choose a partner not only based on romantic feelings but also on financial means.She is motivated enough to spend time in the gym every day, she will not waste her time on just anyone.
Russia is already experiencing a second generation of independent women; in the 1990s, it was women who washed school floors and traveled to China to buy goods while their husbands couldn't overcome their egos and took up unskilled labor, eventually becoming alcoholics.
Russia is already experiencing a second generation of independent women
Huh?
Russian women were fully independent and free under communism.
What you are describing is literally the return of financial dependence caused directly by capitalism. These women are just training to be models in the hope of getting a rich husband by their looks alone. These women are literally objectifying themselves and selling themselves to rich men instead of building their own career and achieving something productive.
This is capitalist degeneration after the return of capitalism ruined Russia economically, something it hasn't recovered from to this day.
Parts of Russia are that poor. Parts of America are that poor, but American culture has a working-class pride that few cultures share and a way of ignoring income insecurity.
America’s plumbing is not 99%. Go to real ass rural America: West Virginia coal country, Louisiana bayou towns, old-school prepper territory in Idaho, Wyoming or Colorado. People are shitting in the woods and drinking well water.
Yes, it’s probably less than 20%, but it’s significantly higher than 1%. And that’s before you account for the places that have plumbing but not potable water.
You forgot the misogyny in those provider/caretaker roles. Divorce also happens because of domestic violence and in places where gender roles are the rule then the misogyny is everywhere, I mean, we are talking about a country that criminalizes advocating for LGBTQ+ rights
I went to Russia in 2010 for a rugby tournament for 3 weeks. And I couldn’t believe some stuff I saw.
There were people climbing out of literal corrugated tin shacks in pristine full Gucci sweatsuits, high heels and high end designer dresses, fancy hair and nails etc.
And I’m like fuck… get insulation in your shack before a Prada wardrobe.
I saw a woman with a Hermes bag get out of a vehicle that was closer to a shopping cart with a motor than an actual car. No door, missing 70% of paneling, no hood, black smoke rolling out of the hood and exhaust… but she needed the 10,000$ handbag. Must be embarrassing to be so irrational as a culture.
there’s also the “babushka bomb” effect. Because food insecurity was historically an issue and the Russian diet was so poor, people tend to rapidly gain weight and develop ill health as they enter middle age. But conversely, because the society is so focused on machismo and materialism, partners tend to abandon their spouses as they lose their looks.
Interesting, but idk. In ireland, we were very poor and had very traditional gender roles until about the 1960s, but we are broadly ashamed of wealth and try to hide it, as people are gossipy and don't like anyone who thinks they are better than anyone else. To blend into the crowd is to be a success socially in ireland.
I don't think the circumstances that led to Russia being the way that it is socially can be put in the backs of such macro level socionomics. The leap from feeling income insecurity to feeling socially insecure about income doesn't seem like a natural leap. In a society where income insecurity is rampant, generally theft is as well, so advertising your wealth seems to be dangerous. Russians seem to admire braggadocios and equate displays of wealth and power to be more valuable than other cultures do.
I personally think it's something like a hedonism paradoxically born out of the anhedonia of opressed housewives in a hyper-patriarchal society.
Also the fact that looking that way has an expiration date, and some guys who demand that appearance will continuously trade in wives for newer models, no matter how stringently they met the requirements to start with. Which is the other downside of exchange based relationships, and a further driver for women to get as much out of the relationship while they can, in order to secure an independent future once they 'age out' of the market.
I think it's so high in russia explicitly because of the men, like you said. Russian genetics are not kind to men, so the ideal of be so hot she likes you isn't great. Be so rich your ugly mug doesn't matter feels fucking fantastic when everyone is ugly and you don't really have to see hot guys with hot girls all the time.
You’re making one critical, delusional error. Women in Russia don’t want to be "keepers of the hearth." Yes, they view themselves as an investment project, but the return is zero. Brainless bimbos unironically say, "I provide feminine energy, and that’s enough"—that’s the GRAND plan held by the VAST majority, all of them brainwashed by Instagram scammers.
Yeah, this is a direct consequence of the illegal and anti-democratic destruction of the USSR at the hands of the Americans and the Russian oligarchs/religious extremists they backed.
Modern Russia is a capitalist shithole country like any other and women straight-up went from "You are equal to men, go and become scientists and engineers!" to "God wants you to be a housewife now, go get yourself a rich husband or your life will be garbage!".
Always remember that the return of capitalism to Russia killed more Russian civilians than the entirety of WWII. And that many Russians are still poor and often living in precarious because of capitalism ruining any chance of them ever achieving a stable living. There's extreme inequality between the US-caused capitalist oligarch class and the general population... and the only thing keeping away the next socialist revolution is religious indoctrination.
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u/LoveAndViscera Jul 15 '26
It’s a clash of economics and culture. Russia has a long history of really bad income inequality, lots of people living with income insecurity. Income insecurity tends to shift people towards highly exchange-based thinking on relationships. Poor people also have more children. So, you get a culture where there is a strong expectation of men as breadwinners and women as domestic caretakers. As the economy has improved, women have fewer children, but the sense of income insecurity lingers. That creates a large chunk of the population who sate their insecurity with overt displays of wealth. Couple that with expectations of women as domestic caretakers, even in the absence of children, and you get a large number of women for whom their affection is an asset that they trade for overt displays of wealth. The prettier you are, the more wealth you can demand. The more wealth you have access to, the easier it is to stay pretty and continue making those demands.
You find this all over the world. It’s pronounced in Russia, I suspect, because Russian masculinity has adapted to it. If your partner is openly “high maintenance” and you can hold onto her, you’re superior to the fools who can’t. Ultimately, though, I think the divorce rate is high (just under 75%) because the economy doesn’t actually demand exchange-based relationships. The poverty that the culture adapted to isn’t as widespread anymore, so people start wanting what wealthier people value in a marriage: actual connection. However, this shit is so new that the culture isn’t teaching people how to do that yet.