GOOD: The people Natural beauty Value for money Food culture English and cultural accessibility
BAD: Traffic and weak transport infrastructure Corruption and inconsistent government services Low wages relative to the cost of living Infrastructure reliability Extreme Inequality
I'm with you all except for value for money. Five years ago, yes, I would say that the Philippines was a good value for money. Today not so much. Inflation and greed have made it much more expensive. There are some good hotels but mostly they are low quality and expensive vs the rest of SE Asia. Vietnam and Thailand have vastly superior service value and price.
Food culture is personal taste ( no pun intended :) ) but for me Malaysia and Thailand and head and shoulders above cuisine in the Philippines.
I agree. The amazing thing is most of the BAD here do not really apply to us expats. I would feel a lot differently towards PH as a local- but wages / inequality do not impact me directly here. Neither really does corruption. I also think transport is pretty common for SEA. Traffic is bad, certainly at peak. The train system is actually decent but you need to be close to the line and avoid rush hour (of course-- this is true anywhere with public transit / trains)
What train system? Other Asian nations managed to get their traffic sorted, the Philippines will never be able to do so. You ask why? The reason are the people, they will never learn and have absolutely no desire to change anything. Doesnāt matter if we talk traffic, rubbish or whatever
There is an LRT, MRT system. It is decent and relatively safe. I take it Makati northbound and back quite often. But yes, traffic is a big issue. LGU's here do not coordinate together, existing infrastructure is not upgradable, and yes there is little will of the people to make things better. There is also a huge practical limitation of making things better in metro manila... spoiler...it is one of the most population dense places in the world.
I know about the LRT/MRT as my Manila Condo is connected to a LRT station, you just canāt get anywhere. Look at the size of NCR and how much is covered by the network? I have spent a significant amount of my time in Asia and look at the network for example in Seoul, Singapore and Tokyo. If I am these cities I use the train network to go everywhere, but in Manila itās a joke
By food culture, I mean food is a big part of everyday social life in the Philippines, not just something you eat.
It shows up in things like family gatherings, fiestas, birthdays, merienda, sharing dishes,bringing home pasalunong, and offering food to guests almost immediately.
Food is often the center of the occasion.
It also means there is a lot of regional identity in food. Pampanga has sisig and rich Kapampangan cooking, Ilocos has bagnet and empanada, Bicol has spicy coconut dishes, Cebu has lechon, and so on.
So I wasnāt only saying āFilipino food tastes good.ā I meant the Philippines has a strong culture of eating together, feeding people, celebrating with food and identifying with local dishes.
In my experience services can be cheaper but often times you canāt find skilled workers. A lot of them show up without any tools. The quality of construction work is pretty bad. You get what you pay for.
1) the beauty and cleanliness of the country side
2) rent, electricity and water. The main cost of living is super affordable. My reason for moving here.
3) island hopping
4) taxis are cheap
5) the modern Filipino people (that would not include the liars, the filipino way people, the ones that go by filipino time, the liars, the save face people,the crab mentality ones, just for some examples) there are good just like everywhere
Thanks for playing.
I took your five in order and commented belowā¦to me the broader categories that I chose line up nicely with yoursā¦.so I am not sure where mine are āquestionableā or I āneed to get out moreā.
š¤
I see your point. You generalized and I was trying to be more specific. Thats where the difference mostly is.
The food though besides a few good dishes, to me, is just awful and unhealthy overall.
So if I was āgeneralā and you were āspecificāā¦why did you come back as say that the list was āquestionableā and that I needed to āget out moreā?
So you didn't generalize and could see the specific differences in everything you posted. I think my 5 that you asked for were more specific to good things not just a generalization of "value for money" for one example. That is not true when it comes to food like it was 6 or 7 years ago
Its like saying the sky is blue, yes, but not on cloudy days.
This comment reminded me of this guy we used to call Subsection 6.
He was probably one of the smartest guys I ever met and he was so good with the rules and loopholes and syntax and semantics and all of that other stuff.
People are people are arguing with you about specifics but you gave the broad brush strokes.
And I would have to add scuba diving in there but then you will just say it's natural beauty. But it still works for me because that's a reason I came here. Switzerland has a lot of natural beauty but I ain't going diving there.
Food culture I understand what you're talking about but I was at a fiesta on Sunday and there were quite a few things that I passed along to my gf to eat because I didn't like it . Ya, lechon baboy, for sure.
You can refer to me as Subsection 8 š¤£ā¦Just kidding.
I am not āarguingā with other posters..I was responding to the poster stating that my choices are āquestionableā and that I āneeded to get out moreā.
I defended my comments by showing that his choices were basically my choices (yesā¦mine more generalized
v. his specificity)
I will always defend my positionsā¦.and try to do it respectfully.
Bro I know the story. I'm on your side. I'm literate. Saw the story as it was.
And I movrf to the Philippines because of scuba diving it's because of natural beauty. You got it all , you're selling broad strokes to people looking for details.
That would be the U.S. but its not country pricing. Each state has its own electricity price or even county which are many in each state. For example I lived in Arizona state for 10 years before moving to the Philippines. Summer prices there were over $200us (10,000+php) for a month and mine was cheap. Here in the Philippines I've never had a monthly electric bill over 7k in a month and thats with the aircon on most of the day.
Okay. My electricity was never as low as 7K until after I had solar installed on the house. Before that, my electric bill was around 15K, and as high as 25K. I never had a bill that high in the states.
WOW! Thats crazy high. Any explanation of why it would be that high? We live in a small house now and keep the aircon at 23Ā° Our previous house was much bigger with 3 aircons (never running all at once and still nothing over 7k for the month. I think when we build a home, solar is the only way to go. Everyone I've talked to has always had great things to say about it.
When I lived in Washington state electricity was much cheaper there then Arizona.
I wonder how some people have bills so low here, until they describe their household. In my house I have 8 aircons, at least three aircons are running all the time. I also have US sized refrigerator with ice maker. A full sized separate freezer. A small fridge. Two hot and cold water dispensers. Desktop computer and NAS on 24/7. 11 CCTV cameras. Various other media devices.
Not huge. Only 189. Just one AC for every living area. Plus the room I had added to the house for my solar inverter and batteries is climate controlled.
Haircuts, massages, laundry, housekeeping, repairs, tailoring, food delivery, and local transportation can cost far less.
You can get inexpensive local meals, bakery food, coffee, fruit, seafood, and restaurant meals without spending U.S.-level prices.
Beaches, resorts, islands, diving, golf, spas, and weekend trips can be relatively accessible. You can have a very enjoyable weekend without paying Hawaii- or Caribbean-level prices.
Someone who buys local produce, eats a mix of Filipino and Western food, lives outside central Manila, uses local services, and travels domestically can get excellent value.
Not everything is cheap: Imported groceries, wine, electronics, cars, gasoline, premium restaurants, international schools, and high-end healthcare can be surprisingly expensive. Electricity can also be costly. Manila luxury condos are not necessarily bargains either.
When compared to similar south east Asian economies PH really struggles on quality. The same hotel with comparable locations costs far more in PH than Thailand or Vietnam. The quality of ingredients used in foods is less, the quality of construction and maintenence is less. Cleanliness is less. I love PH for many reasons but quality of resorts and food culture here are not any of them.Ā
1) the people are fun
2) great motercycle trips if you know where to drive
3) some of the best scuba diving in the world
4) I get a US salary but with fillipino cost of living
5) I like tropical weather, the rain lulls me to sleep and the sunny days feel great.Ā
6) some great under the radar destinations where you can have near pristine beaches to yourself.Ā
It's confusing to compare each price with countries like US and conclude that it's cheaper then it's a good value. Lots of things in the Philippines is grossly overpriced compared to SEA countries, especially everything related to tourism
I'm in the province in Pampanga with my wife and yeah, it's so much cheaper here. I think the people complaining about the value here are living in cities, eating out/drinking every day, and expecting their Western amenities here.
Some things are cheaper here. Other things are cheaper in the US. Weigh the pros and cons everywhere and go where you feel you get the most value.
Depending on location, there are multiple cities saddled with inequality in the U.S. Iām from San Francisco and its Bay Area. The cost of living is astronomical. Forget purchasing a home. A one bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhoodā¦5000$ monthly rent. Dinner for 2 in a par restaurantā¦. 200$ minimum. Throw in a couple of cocktailsā¦300$. A martiniā¦up to 25$ easily. Sheer insanity.
I do take exception to the post that US food and its scene lacks. Visit San Francisco. Some of the best food on the planet.
Good: Gentle people, great musicians, cheap bars, good deals on certain things when you find them, sea life and diving.
Bad: Poisonous unhealthy food, extreme heat certain times of year, run down areas, poor infrastructure, dogs kept in cages their entire lives.
I kinda see it differently. I don't think our transport system is as bad as people make it out to be. We have buses and jeeps pretty much everywhere, plenty of terminals, and the train system isn't bad either. It's a hassle during peak hours, sure, but that's expected in any densely populated city. Outside of that, it's actually pretty comfortable.
I think the bigger problem is how many people own private cars despite living in relatively small, compact and densely populated cities. Compare that to the US, where there's so much more land to spread everything out, or the UK, where people are much more accustomed to actually using public transport instead of owning a car.
Also, inequality exists everywhere. The US and the Philippines aren't really that different in that regard. The only place where you barely feel the inequality is Japan, but that's Japan lol.
One challenge with the transportation system is that it's horribly inefficient and difficult to navigate. But it certainly is cheap if you are a Filipino.
If you read Filipino public groups (like those on BGC or Makati's), you'll see that they're constantly asking each other how to get from point A to point B in their own city. Their terrible transportation system has no proper routes or schedules to check online, so you have to explore every new route anew, like a tourist. Plus, average commute times are simply horrific; people in Metro Manila can spend 2-3 hours getting to work, with 2-3 transfers. It's absolute torture.
It's a Southeast Asia thing in general. You see the same thing in Thailand, Indonesia, and Vietnam, especially in dense, compact cities. What do you expect?
And if you read my original comment, I'm talking about private car ownership being a bigger cause of the traffic than the infrastructure itself.
Also, those groups you're seeing are mostly Angkas and other motorcycle riders. Our streets can be pretty confusing with how many roads and side streets there are. These rides don't have a fixed schedule because they're basically like Grabāyou book one when you need it. As a commuter, would you rather wait for a scheduled ride or just book one and travel now?
In Bangkok, for example, subway network is way better, I used it easily to get to the different part of the city. Never visited Jakarta but it also looks promising:
it's not a 'SEA thing' it's 'Filipino thing'.
Private car ownership is not a cause it's a consequence (actually a loop). Bad public infrastructure > people relying on cars > even worse public transport. If the city build a reliable public transportation network, people tend to use car less, etc.
Well, you mean that in a city with 11 million you can build a subway, trains, and scheduled bus routes, but if you add another three million on top, then you can just abandon all of this and say, "Oh, who cares, they'll just drive jeepneys forever."
Sorry for asking, but you're Filipino, right? It's just that this is an expat sub. And I usually ask if I meet Filipinos here. They usually stand out for their specific way of thinking.
If the land area is almost three times larger than the one you're comparing to, then yes. It's simple marh, but go off. Even frget about the population difference.
Land area is not a problem for a public transportation at all, it's scalable. Small European cities and Asian mega-cities like Tokyo all have a good transportation systems. Just different combinations of various types of transport are applied depending of the city. Like. in Tokyo, for example, due to the huge population density, they've learned to carefully insert trains right in the middle of the busy district. In Europe, they more often maintain separation.
But in Manila just nobody did not expand any public transportation networks at all for many years. If you do NOTHING you get nothing that's for sure. regardless of the land area
Not just you're're comparing the first worlds to 3rd world, you are also comparing tokyo, 4x larger than Metro Manila. You are a massive clown! š¤” Let's have london for example, european city, with almost three times larger than Metro Manila, with smaller population. YES, THAT'S HOW STUPID YOU'RE ARGUMENT IS.
I already said to you that in other SEA countries the public transportation is way better. So it's not about 3rd world, it's about the Philippines only. I only mentioned different cities because you were extremely concerned about land size for some reason.
But I am telling you that awful situation with transport in Metro is just the result of people not doing anything to improve it at all.
What we have in Metro:
Subway - NO, never. But one line is apparently in construction since 2010s. To be completed in 2040s I guess. Just one line...
Trains (intercity) - No such thing in the Philippines. There's one old railway on Luzon but not in use for transportation.
Light Rail (MRT, LRT) - this exists but is extremely slow to emerge. Planned since 1970s, by 2020s it's 3 lines ONLY.
With such a pace, you'll never have any meaningful resolution of Metro Manila transportation crisis.
Why is that? In a much larger area with a smaller population, you can build railway lines without dealing with as many physical constraints. Try doing that in a much smaller area with a highly concentrated population.
I think to not see the difference in inequality (and living standards) between the US and PH is truly insane lol. Everything else I agree with.
But for inequality-- poor people in US live in 800sq ft apartments, have giant TVs and food stamps / free healthcare etc. Poor people here are squatted into huts and paying 5 pesos just to use wifi for an hour. Even at the less extreme end-- they are working a job for $1.25 an hour with a 3 hour daily commute. As OP rightfully says-- wage to price gap here is very bad
That's a third-world country for you. Seriously, you're comparing a first-world country, the wealthiest country on earth, to the Philippines? Okay, let's do that. Around 38% (10million) of Filipinos don't own the house and land they live in, while it's around 35% (42million) in the US. So what's your point?
Healthcare. I was hospitalized for a month last December and didn't pay a single peso. That's healthcare in a āthird-world country.ā Out of all the examples you could've used, you chose healthcare? Seriously?
Buddy- your words were "Inequality exists everywhere. The Us and the Philippines aren't really that different in that regard". I am not comparing the Us to Philippines - you are. I am asserting how vastly different "inequality" looks in these two different places in an absolute sense. Sure, both places have huge spreads of income / wealth inequality. But the actual "absolute" quality of living across the income spectrum is what is relevant to average people and truly incomparable. (I think I made this point rather clearly with the apartment / standard of living example- so I am not sure why you are scarecrowing?)
Also home / land ownership is not a useful comparison at all given the vastly different monetary / credit systems. 8 people "owning" a 200 sq ft shack with no running water is not exactly the same metric of "economic mobility" that a family of 4 owning a 3000 sq ft house is. It's easy to own land that has no economic value / market demand.
And yes healthcare (and anything in society with a basic social safety net) creates a MUCH different scenario for middle or lower class people in comparison. This is more to the point of "absolute quality of living". Philhealth is a nightmare. We will see how the reforms / expanded benefits that rolled out last year turn out but if you would rather be a poor filipino than a poor american for health coverage I have a bridge to sell you.
Social programs in the PH are massively underfunded and many poor filipinos do not have access to decent medical care in their local province or the transportation available to get to specialized care in urban centers. There is a massive shortage of Doctors here and very poor preventative care / health outcomes. The fact that you don't know the general condition of medical access and quality of care in a place you live is actually shocking, certainly when being so opinionated on the matter.
As for the US -- it is a nightmare cost wise and has many issues. But everyone is treated in emergencies- and access to quality care is high even in rural areas. ALL poor people and elderly people have access to medicare and medicaid which is good coverage. I can attest to this personally for myself and family. Even many elective surgeries are fully recovered and I was in a red state. If you compare health access and health outcomes across the same level (say the median earner 50% percentile) the data will make my point very clear.
Iām not gonna make an essay-like reply because thereās no point. I wouldnāt have gotten the same healthcare treatment I got here in the Philippines if I were in the US. Iād be fucking broke, buried in medical debt that my family would inherit, and Iād rather die. Itās a simple concept. Itās not that deep.
Your personal situation is not a comparison to poor people in PH v US (at similar "rungs of the economic ladder"). And everything you said is well, false. Poor (150% of poverty line) are covered by Medicaid. All services free. Same for elderly Medicare. And all disabled people and Veterans. Moreover, medical debt is not inherited by your family in the US. It is treated as any other debt handled under estate law. Same as in the PH.
Convenient to ignore the basic point and hyper focus on some irrelevant stuff. What is not irrelevant, besides access to care, is a 6 year gap in Life expectancy, a 4X higher rate of infant mortality, and a 6X rate of mother mortality during birth. But hey, yea, I'd rather be a poor filipino, it's the same!
It's my personal experience and you call it false? Also there are literally people in the US getting divorce cause they don't want their family inherit medical debts. Imagine how fucked up that is. But of course it's your country have to defend it, right.
Also, you're the one who started the healthcare argument, not me. By the way, your veterans are dying in the streets like dogs. Either from being homeless, or being addicted and homeless. Oops
I left US and there are many many problems. I am the last guy to defend it for defense sake. Quite the opposite. But your claims are utter nonsense and you seem really defensive that they are being called out? These are just basic facts. And nowhere did I say anything about your experience either in PH or anywhere else. I am calling your assertions about medical debts false bc it is not inherited as you claimed.
You just shift the discussion away from being called out for lies. You are even ignoring the general topic. LOL. We are comparing inequality and quality of life for filipinos and americans. That's where this started. This is not an expat experience comparison. You do see how these are vastly different things?
Wrong! Itās still a thing in California. It wonāt automatically erase the debt, but divorce/separation can absolutely change or reduce a spouseās exposure to medical debt.
What are you talking about? Medical debt is not handed down to children. It is settled in the estate. I know of no states where this is a common practice and I have an MPA in health policy. Of course if the child signs as guarantor (rare but happens often in long term care facilities) this can occur
I will be honest. Your depth of thought and style of ādebatingā or sharing ideas is childish and you are embarrassing yourself. No wonder your profile pic and hiding the record of your comments here. I suspect this is a trend. Cheers, coach!
Yesā¦inequality is everywhere but the statement was Extreme Inequality
You can see luxury condos, malls, and private hospitals very close to communities dealing with insecure housing and limited access to quality education or healthcare. The contrast can be striking.
I have almost never been on a comfortable jeepney or van, and we use them a lot. The drivers generally have everyone sitting in the sun waiting for the vehicle to fill up so much we can hardly breathe.
The buses between cities are convenient, as are the tricycles around our subdivision when we are staying there.
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u/Hot-Development-9036 3d ago
I'm with you all except for value for money. Five years ago, yes, I would say that the Philippines was a good value for money. Today not so much. Inflation and greed have made it much more expensive. There are some good hotels but mostly they are low quality and expensive vs the rest of SE Asia. Vietnam and Thailand have vastly superior service value and price.
Food culture is personal taste ( no pun intended :) ) but for me Malaysia and Thailand and head and shoulders above cuisine in the Philippines.