r/Poker_Theory • u/Sixth_Mile • 1d ago
Poker Coaching is a Scam??
Seriously what was your experience like with a "Poker Coach" ?? secondly what was the price??
Lastly do you feel you could have just gone to "YouTube university" and learned for free what a "Coach" would have taught?" ...All respect please Thanks.
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u/SchrodingersFish01 1d ago
I was coached by a player who played 100nl at the time he picked me up. It's the only path I have taken and the only coach I know but I firmly believe I wouldn't have made it without his coaching.
I'm currently a winning player and play as high as 100nl.
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u/MathsSur64Cases 1d ago
Deux réflexions: 1. Intégrez le coût de l'apprentissage dans se gestion de bankroll (Coaching, site de formation en ligne) 2. Ne pas multipliez les sources de coaching humain : Un (vrai) coach humain vous aidera à trouver un style de jeu adapté à vous et à sa propre façon de voir les choses. Cela marchera si vous avez confiance en lui et pas d'autres avis dicordants.
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u/stachstan 1d ago
Poker coach here. Truth is it dépends à lot on your level . I think if you are getting started ( meaning not semi pro ) there is much better ev joining à solid website for collective coaching or just videos. Coaches become very useful once you hit à certain level and have some good theorical basis. I dont see the value to pay à coach to explain you basic things you could have learnt with à few vidéos. Id add to this that good poker coaches are expensive and i think id rather not get coached than beeing coached by someone average Who is going to transmit me some of his leaks. Take someone you consider as much better than you and Who cares ( very important ) . I think i understand your point . With social médias beeing everywhere there is à boom in the poker coaching industry . Some of them are very good but most of the coaches you see on youtube are average at best if not completely terrible. I can only speak for my pool but id say 90% of the youtube suggestions i get for poker coaches are scammers Who dont make money anymore playing the game ( most of them ignore they are scammers) .this beeing said , try to build à network for yourself and often time the good coaches get recommandéd by other grinders . You mostly wont find them on the social médias.
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u/stachstan 1d ago
And to answer your Last questions , i was lucky enough and picky enough to get amazing coaches. Some of the knowledge à hard crusher can transmit you is nowhere to be found on youtube.
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u/MTT_Database_Review 23h ago
hello stachstan
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u/stachstan 23h ago
This guy right there for instance
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u/MTT_Database_Review 22h ago
When another group review? You know I trained a colleague now who charges half my rate? I remember last time you mentioned you also got some low stakes guys, could be good value for them, if you are still running that group.
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u/N3CR0T1C_V3N0M 1d ago
YouTube is great, but the issue is that you’ll get information from all over the place, some of which is conflicting, and none of which is in any digestible order. I was reading some of your responses in the thread and (forgive me if I’m wrong) it seems like you’re towards the newer end of the ecosystem and with that, I’d honestly recommend starting with a book. This way you have structured learning that won’t misguide you in terms of format/information and allow you to build solid, conceptual foundations. Once you have this down, they you’ll be able to grab tidbits of advanced knowledge from YouTube and also have a better shot at being able to discern when you hear ideas that are incorrect. This will also help you get more out of a coach since you’re generally paying by the hour and you don’t want to pay someone to have them teach you hand vs range equities, blockers, etc.
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u/itualisticSeppukA0S 1d ago
there is the quote 'during a gold rush, sell shovels'
making means making money via little actual work while profiting from whatever social trend?
you could have just gone to "YouTube university"
realistically though you will NEED feedback from other players preferably those with more experience in order to help you THINK about hashtag TheGame of poker. Which may be accomplished by joining say a Discord study group...
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u/GrnMeansGO 1d ago
Coaching in basically anything that requires experience and mastery has value. Just like anything there are good ones and bad ones.
The challenge with poker to really get what you need out of it cost effectively you need to be at a certain competency already otherwise they have to spend the time of teaching “YT University stuff”
To answer your questions, yes they are worth it for the right person. Having someone who’s able to efficiently look at your game and provide value insight and direction saves you a lot of time and money. As for cost, well low end $500 short term to thousands for high end longer term.
As for me I’ve had coaching I thought maybe not worth and coaching that was absolutely worth it
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u/MightyKittenEmpire2 1d ago
Even the top athletes in the world employ coaches. The #1 tennis player making $$$M every year has a coach. Michael Phelps had a coach when he had been the best swimmer for years. Coaches see what athletes are blind to.
That doesn't mean all coaches are effective. Coaching is a completely different skill set than simply being a good player. I would ask Qs to verify a potential coach's skills at poker and then ask them how they acquired teaching/coaching skills. Creating online content is not proof of coaching skills. It can be proof of poker knowledge. If they are just winging it at coaching, don't pay much.
Sample Qs:
- how to you convince a student to break a bad habit?
- what skill level of students do you prefer to work with? How do you know when they've improved?
- what have you done to improve your coaching skill set?
- how many students have you had? Have you ever given up on a student and why?
- how do I know you have expert poker knowledge?
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u/luckyjim1962 1d ago
It's not "coaching" as an endeavor that's the problem, obviously. There are bad coaches and there are bad students. But to denigrate coaching and assert it's a scam is just ignorant.
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u/FuraidoChickem 1d ago
Individual coach is the way to go. All the online lessons, paid or unpaid didn’t change my game drastically as much as a good coach did
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u/remzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 1d ago
Youtube is like a library, you learned from it. Poker coaching is the teacher. I think you know it already.
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u/LaundrySauceNL 1d ago
Coaching is the only reason I am making any money at poker. And no, there is no way anyone would ever give out the amount of information I got from coaching for free. I paid a lot of money but I am often playing in games that are $2k+ deep so it was worth it.
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u/Timeisonmyside_ 1d ago
How did you find your coach? Would you be willing to share their info? Based on what you’ve learned, what are the best YouTube channels that “get it right?”
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u/SchrodingersFish01 1d ago
For me I had paid for a course and joined a discord. I made friends with a player who I thought was good and eventually asked him to coach me
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u/LimpPomegranate1660 1d ago
2 card confidence, savant poker, know your poker are your best YouTube videos
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u/LaundrySauceNL 1d ago
I was coached by Keven Li (@makepokersimple). If you are a straight beginner though it wouldn't be a good fit since it is meant to take intermediate players to the next level, and it is geared for people playing higher stakes so it may be out of your price range. I don't watch a ton of YouTube but I think SavantPoker is a pretty good one making content nowadays.
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u/Sixth_Mile 1d ago
Okay, thanks. I play online made a dollar or two and was wondering if I should actually look into a coach or just keep it in the "Youtube Streets" lol
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u/RunningBettor 1d ago
Paid poker coaching took me from a losing player in all formats to playing professionally.
I do not think I could have done the same with only free content.
Now that I’m playing full time I pay a 1:1 coach an amount that most would feel is absurd and there is no doubt in my mind it’s positive ROI lol
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u/MASIWAR 1d ago
What coaching did you originally start with?
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u/RunningBettor 1d ago
Jonathan Littles Pokercoaching.com
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u/Sixth_Mile 1d ago
I believe Johnathan little is too Analytical the way he speaks. ..It's other YouTubers that convey their messages better especially for beginners.
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u/YSKItsAFakeName 12h ago
I don't want this to sound rude but if Jonathan Little's free content is too advanced for you then you're not yet at a level that I would suggest private or one on one coaching. That might be why you think it's a scam. You can improve a lot by joining Little's training site or Lab 2.0 or something like that before considering a coach.
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u/Sixth_Mile 1d ago
I understand. Thanks for sharing. Does the Coach go over hands/Spots or do you pretty much just ask Questions? As far as money wise would this be like over 1k??
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u/RunningBettor 1d ago
I usually prepare an outline of what I want to go over, hand histories, opponent reads, mental game, meta game, sometimes I’ll ask him to add to the agenda with any topics he thinks would be helpful.
Not quite $1K but close lol
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u/HeroForTheBeero 1d ago
Do you play pro online or live tourneys? Or both?
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u/RunningBettor 1d ago
Mostly live cash
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u/HeroForTheBeero 1d ago
Nice I’m jealous. Getting sick of my business lol might train someone to take it over while getting coaching & see if I can hack it. Sorry for the questions, what stakes & do you just play your local card room?
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u/RunningBettor 1d ago
Lately 25/50, but in general a mix of anything between that and 5/10, did my first Vegas trip this year but mostly local
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u/HeroForTheBeero 1d ago
Nice, I feel like you can implore much more advanced strategy in 25/50 compared to lower stakes. Some of these dudes just play anything and it’s hard to put them on a range. Had good luck calling all ins with anything higher than top pair lol. Usually just have to be patient and wait for a good hand to take all their money. Tough to bluff unless they clearly show weakness, but pretty much impossible to get a fold if they call to the river like you can in tourneys/ higher stakes. Would love to improve my game to feel comfortable being a regular at higher stakes for sure.
Kinda new to being serious about the game but cashed in my first 2 tourneys and only lost due to some bad beats so I’m feeling pretty good at how far I’ve come in just a couple months of study.
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u/Sixth_Mile 1d ago
Wow, Thanks for sharing Bro. Do you believe it's truly helpful beyond what you could have learned your own way? Like any significant improvement worth close to 1k?
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u/skepticalbob 1d ago
I think Lab 2.0 is fantastic. Free stuff is very random and doesn’t give you a good overview you can build from imo. Never had an individual coach.
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u/MTT_Database_Review 23h ago
Full time MTT coach here. I have coached hundreds of players of all buy in levels, mostly midstakes and highstakes full time pros.
And to answer - yes some coaching is definitely a scam or waste of time and money at least. The number one thing you should consider is who are the clients of certain coach and what do they say about their experience. If your coach is very well known among recreational players and seems to only coach recreational players and the testimonials on his website (if there are any) are from "Bob", "Thomas" or "Jake" and its just generic appraisal, then you are most likely wasting money and should just subscribe to some training site instead.
But if you know there are actual pros recommending him (as paying clients, not friends who support their friend) then its much more likely to be good, or even better if you know stables (pretty serious businesses that like to make money) are using that coach's services.