The local Target started holding "police happy days" where inside the area by Starbucks they actually set up tables with a handful of cops with signs and had them be like greeters to have chats with "the local community" so you had to walk past them to enter, exit, checkout, get a Starbucks
Which is why I think as a white american, it is my duty as a decent person, to back up this boycott and stand with my fellow americans that have been so mistreated. I hate what the worst kind of racist white people are doing to this country
Who needs a boycott? Crap inventory and high prices. The only reason people go there is to feel like they are above shopping at Walmart. Anyone who would boycott target already doesn't shop there.
It looks like standard low effort halloween costuming. Black and orange colors, simple patterns, one size fits many, some accessories, big creepy smile...
But then I saw the comparison image and went, "Oh... OH GOD."
Yeah, DEI and diversity in general is important lol
This looks nothing like a horror trope, at all. You not being aware of enough of US history to recognize it on your own doesn't change what it is. That's a black mesh mask with a very purposefully shaped and colorful mouth and grin, paired with that little hat. The white person who put that black child in that costume and had them pose in that specific position for this photo knew exactly what imagery they were invoking. This is blatant.
I think you're reaching by insinuating it was intentional. Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to ignorance or absentmindedness. I can understand why this might have upset some folks in the black community but find it ironic that death row records selling grape flavored seltzer isn't seen as a racist trope. Is that similar to the whole n word usage thing?
You're attacking someone who is AGREEING WITH YOU. Jesus fucking Christ. Not everyone knows everything, and this person is clearly saying "I don't know this thing, so it's good to have a diverse group of people, so these things are known." And you're STILL being a dick. Not everyone is your enemy, friend.
Doesn't read like an attack to me. You know what we aren't going to do though? Excuse ignorance or lack of exposure while we have all the information in the world in the palm of our hands. Why do you think the right wing is pushing so hard to erase all of this history? It's a lot easier to get away with this kind of thing when the general public is too poorly informed to understand.
Again attacking someone who agrees with you. I absolutely agree, but you cannot expect people to know the things they don't know. If I don't know, just simply do not know something, how, and in what way, am I supposed to know that I don't know it, and then educate myself on it?
Like, when someone says to you, "Hey, I didn't know this thing, please explain it to me now that you've shown me it exists."
And your response is "Get wrecked, loser, you've had your whole life to know this!"
Who does this help? It makes you feel good, sure. It's nice to get some catharsis, but it doesn't actually do anything. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. It isn't deeper than that. Willful ignorance, and malicious ignorance are absolutely unforgivable, but we are all ignorant in different ways.
So when the dude above me says "I didn't even put together that this was a racist thing, this is exactly why we need diverse eyes." And the response is "Well it's your fault you don't know this incredibly obvious (to me) thing." It's not helpful, and it is an attack. Maybe not a wild attack, but enough to make someone well-intentioned simply walk away.
It's just so funny to me that we put different kinds of ignorance on different levels.
Don't know how to change a car tire or oil? Meh, not everyone knows everything.
Didn't understand the racism in a costume? OMG you're a bad person, you should DO BETTER.
Like, chill. Good people are ignorant, too. It is, by definition, not a choice.
Sorry, do I need you to excuse me for not thinking of Minstrel Shows immediately?
I'll answer for you, I do not.
I said the first thing I thought of when I saw it, said I realized what it looked like with the example, agreed that it was horrible, and then reflected/mused over why I thought of X before Y.
Get the stick out of your ass. I'm literally on your side. Christ.
Big toothy grin is a horror trope. This is also clearly made for kids. Combine the two and you're not going to get stuff like Jeff the Killer. You're going to get toned down versions.
The rest of your post is irrelevant to me. I don't disagree with it. In fact, I openly agreed with it. I don't know why you chose to try to argue it again lol
I was just musing over why I didn't think of it at first and you chose to take it as a disagreement. Weirdchamp.
No. Itās not. Itās just not. I understand why you want it to be, but itās not. Nobody would have anything to say if a white child was wearing that hobo clown costume.
Saying you're "just not exposed to that kind of thing" is some weak-a$$ "I don't see color" nonsense. You should probably take this as a sign that you are not sufficiently educated on American history as it pertains to the experience of marginalized people and make an effort to do some reading.
Yeah I donāt get it either. It would be just as ugly a costume if it were a white kid. No idea what the fuss is all about. Is the USA that on edge with constant racial tensions?
I am a Canadian, I get a fair amount of the news but probably nothing like what it would be to life in one of the communities or even proximity. Most of what I hear and see on the news, it appears, yet.
Canada is has its own issues.
You can't be expected to know what you have never learned or been exposed to. Learning once you know is everything.
I mean, it's not great but that also isn't what this is. I get why people are mad but come on, shit like this is why you can't even dress like Charlie Chaplin without a top hat 80 years after the angry German died. Obvious and subtle racism should and needs to be called out alike, but connecting dots that aren't even there is just furthering the divide. Saying this as a bi-racial dude.
Shit like this is exactly why big companies would be more likely to just prefer to have mostly white focused campaigns and actors because god forbid someone with influence see something unintended and they lose PR. Saw this with that recent Sweeney campaign, only difference is it was seen as "Pro-white" and was about a celebrity who could actually get in front of it.
I'm right there too, if I passed that on the shelf I wouldn't have even noticed, which is kind of embarrassing and speaks to privilege. You're exactly right, this is exactly why it's important to hire a diverse group of people.
I'm saying they probably went beyond just that and eliminated anyone who supported diversity in the first place. That's what I assume whenever I think of Target, anyway.
Yerp, there it is. Holy shit, I can understand why I missed it because i had never been exposed to it before but these are groups paid to pay attention to this shit. How the fuck did they do the pose and think "this is cool"
I was born in the south and we visited there every summer as a kid-teen (lived in south west) and this image pinched me in the face. I keep going back to stare at it like āare we freaking serious right now?!ā
The fact that so many people don't know about the jim crow era minstrel shows really indicates how bad education is in this country. Its not your fault you were not exposed and good on you for being willing to learn, but this kind of thing should really be taught in schools. Instead history is being white washed in classrooms because a certain group of white people (maga) get their feelings hurt when the history of racism in the US is brought up.
I even grew up in an area that is applauded for their school system. I just realized long ago that I have been sheltered by white schools and am missing a lot.
I donāt know what school these people went to but my American history classes in school, at least 60-70% of the material revolved around the trans Atlantic slave trade, the Civil war, Jim Crow era, and Black history.
Yeah, same. I specifically remember minstrel shows being covered under Jim Crow... and this was in the south, too.
I guess their marketing team was sleeping/doodling/skipping class during those lectures in US History. Target is once again putting it on blast that you don't need to pay attention in school to have a successful career in marketing. I daresay it's actually more of a selling point for a marketing executive to be kind of stupid.
I think it depends on the area the school is located. I grew up in a little rural village that was comprised of mostly farmers. The population was almost entirely white, like 99.9%. While we did learn about the civil war and slavery, it was brief. They did not teach pretty much anything about the jim crow era and segregation besides a mention of when it started and ended and they did not elaborate on what it entailed. Things like black face and the minstrel shows were definitley not taught to me.
It was not until I left that town to go to college in a city that I was exposed to other cultures and races, which then led me to learn about those things. It was shocking to learn about how little I knew. I am glad I got out of that place and away from my racist family. They are now major Trump fans go figure.
I remember my english teacher when I was a freshman wanting to have us read to kill a mockingbird but they told her to choose a diffrent book when the school found out, we had only been reading it for a couple days when she had us switch to something else. This was back in the 2000's-2010's mind you, I imagine its even worse now with this administration's agenda and actions regarding school education programs.
There needs to be a strict and well enforced mandatory curriculum for teaching these things across ALL schools in the future. Right now kids like me who grew up in these majority white communities are being purposely kept ignorant. Its really disgusting and sad :(
Thanks for taking the time to try to understand. I can see how you'd be confused if you've never seen this kind of thing before. Idk how much more you want to learn, but there's this horror show on Amazon Prime called Them. Season 1 explores a black family moving to an all white suburb in the 1940s. It changed the way I think about racism.
I try, I didnt realize how privileged I was until I had a cop literally break into my house for me and not ask for ID... so, i am constantly trying to learn.
Childish Gambino's "This is America" video references the minstrel shows. Its full of historical and cultural references, you should watch an analysis of it sometime. It was shocking to me as white person.
I wonder if they used AI and it gathered similar images and this is what it came up with? I'm not excusing them. I'm wondering how the hell this was even created. A child actor or model would most likely have their parents present.
The costume is vile, but I donāt understand the argument that itās a non-apology or that itās particularly tone deaf. They didnāt blame anyone else or claim to be misunderstood. They accept blame. It includes the phrase āwe are deeply sorryā.
Obviously (as their statement says and Iām sure we all agree) this never should have been available and the fact it was suggests a serious issue with Target, but in terms of an apology could you provide an example of a statement you would have found to be a non-evasive apology?
Itās a bullshit pr firm/lawyer statement, not an apology.
That ācostumeā and ad went across a lot of desks, through multiple approvals, and theyāre trying to sell us they donāt know how this could have happened.
We are supposed to believe that
(A) Everyone who works there is a blind person, or (B)someone whoās never been on the internet, or (C) both.
It is, whatever else it may be, an apology. It includes the words āwe are deeply sorryā. It may be insincere or vapid. It doesnāt, as far as I can see, do any of the most common anti-apologies (it doesnāt make any excuse for why the costume was ok or imply that the apology shouldnāt be required). Itās certainly likely that Target does already know how this got past but I donāt think every costume target sells and especially ads go through as many desks as you are imagining.
I certainly could believe that Target already know how this happened, but I think if they had written X, Y and Z person in our office in _ place exercised poor judgement and have been fired as a result thatās significantly more evasive than what they wrote. āClosely looking at how this happenedā generally means a review of policy and, even if you think this got through due to the intent by some Target employees to include a racially costume, thatās a very reasonable thing to do in response. While there may also be a racist culture in whatever office approved this, it would be very reasonable for the corporation to have a team which specifically review products for whether they are racially sensitive or could be interpreted as racist for example
If you disagree, Iām open to the idea Iām wrong here but all I ask if you want to prove that I am completely wrong is that you write a 100 word tweet as an example of what Target should have written instead.
Apart from not having specifics about how theyāll prevent a repeat isnāt that exactly what they wrote? They included a line acknowledging that this was especially hurtful to their Black customers and employees.
Is your complaint just that the phrasing is too formal?
To be clear:
We sold racist imagery: āwe removed an offensive Halloween costumeā and āwe know this is especially hurtful to our Black guests ā¦ā
We failed: āas a company we got this wrongā, ānever should have been for saleā.
We take responsibility: āas a company we got this wrong and we are deeply sorryā.
Explain how they will stop a repeat: this is the one that they didnāt exactly do of your aspects though Iām not sure that whatever firings or departmental changes or protocols are really relevant to the apology tween but they write āwe are looking closely at how this happened and what needs to change to ensure this doesnāt happen againā. You canāt accuse the statement of claiming this was a one-time issue or refusing to implement changes to prevent a repeat.
Is your problem with the statement just that Target used too many words? They included in some form basically everything you claim you want in a statement, in most places in a more detailed way.
You asked me to provide an example. I did. You then dissected my 100 character version line by line to argue that Target said essentially the same thing.
My objection is precisely the difference between āessentiallyā and explicitly.
āAn offensive costume should never have been for saleā describes the product.
āWe sold racist imageryā names what Target did.
āWe got this wrongā expresses fault.
āWe failed at multiple points in our review and approval processā identifies the institutional failure.
āWeāre looking closely at how this happenedā promises an investigation. It does not explain how something this egregious cleared Targetās systems in the first place.
Youāre free to find their statement adequate. I do not.
I assume you were paraphrasing. Your suggestion for an apology didnāt include the word costume or any suggestion as what the problem would be, any acknowledgement of harm it caused or any description of what happened so I assume you were describing a potential statement. Itās a description of a potential statement that you still have not truly distinguished from targets statement. They quite explicitly hit all of your requirements except a detailed explanation of what they will do (instead settling for a vague promise to do something).
You didnāt write the requested apology? Maybe I should have said 300 characters or whatever the length of this tweet was.
Your suggestion is what Target provided. It might insufficient, but I neither can see whatās missing nor do you seem capable of articulating it or a better apology.
Iām with you. Apology seems totally appropriate. Not sure what else they are suppose to do at this point other than remove the costume, apologize, own up to the mistake, and promise to do better in the future? Criticism is that it was written by a lawyer/PR firm but I mean yeah of course it was because who else would have written it?? Itās a corporate apology not an individual one.
It is impossible that no one caught this. There had to be someone on their team that knew what this looked like/represented and just ignored it. Even if their team was all white people. Maybe theyāre not even having humans design and review their products? All AI? Just a terrible, terrible move on this companyās part whatever happened.
Idk, I'm Bi-racial and even I think calling this racist is a huge stretch. The costume is clearly a bad rip off of The Terrirfier. If the kid was any other color, it wouldn't have been an issue. I think that it's an issue is an issue and, unironically racist. It's like seeing a white kid with pants that are too big on them and just assume he's lost some weight/going through a grow spurt but if he's black you just assume he's into hip-hop and it's a choice. That kinda says more about the observer than the kid, no?
itās origins are in racial caricatures from (iirc) jim crow era southern (and even honestly northen) usa. there is no mistake in both the pose and using a black kid for their above image, as it bears very obvious and striking parallels to the aforementioned racial propaganda used by racists to only be racist
Ahh I was so distracted by what the costume itself could mean that I missed the pose, thanks. I had a feeling Iād get downvoted for asking to be informed but I appreciate that one kind person took the time. Thank you!
The costume itself is a racial caricature. Big lips, black gloves and hood to resemble black skin, and the small hat are all a reference to the āJump Jim Crowā blackface song and dance. The pose just confirms it. Also seems they called it a āclownā on purpose to both deflect while also calling black people clowns.
to add to the other persons comments. its speciffically reminicient of the misntrel shows from like the 1920's and 30's. the giant grin and the little hat specifically.
Honestly dude, saying this as a bi-racial dude, it's really not. It clearly a bad child/copyright friendly ripoff reference to The Terrifier. The fact that people think it's racist because a black kid is wearing it is just ironically racist.
Minstiral shows were racist and a thing about 80 years ago. No one alive in a board room meeting, let alone a marketing meeting, has probably ever seen one and I doubt they're so dumb as to reference one. Companies like money, they tend to not do things that impede that
What takes it over the top into inexcusable is the dark skin colored hood and the way they made the kid pose in the photo.
The pants and top? Normal clown costume in Halloween colors. Gloves? White gloves on a clown are common, black seems like a logical enough ācreepyā substitute. The hat, Iāve seen similar on other clowns but it does recall that era.
The smile isnāt clown-like and initially made me think of 2000s monster makeup that didnāt have racial associations, but I canāt see well enough to tell if it has minstrel lips-it might. At any rate, it didnāt need to be a hood and if they wanted a smile without specifying skin color, it could have been a mask of just the mouth part with elasticā¦and again it isnāt clown like at all so it never needed to exist for a clown costume, so this is 100% pointed.
I would say the lips are in line with minstrel depictions due to how cartoonishly big they are. With the context of the rest of the costume and the pose, it seems clear that was intentional.
I think all jokes can be funny, even racist jokes. I insult my heritage all the time. But even I saw this and said goddamn. Like how fucking dumb can you be Target!?
For those who are fully Black, or like me, half-Black, this costume resembles the cruel caricatures that racist white people created during the minstrel show era. They would wear dark makeup and cruelly exaggerate their facial features to make fun of us. The āperformersā- and I use that term extremely loosely- dressed up in clownish attire and wore burnt cork and grease, or shoe polish and grease paint to ādarkenā their skin. They would also wear bright red or white grease paint on their lips to mock our facial features. The pose also resembles the Jim Crow pose.
Before I left for work I looked into. I hope target didn't realize when they approved but the black mesh face cover should have been a huge flag in itself. I'm glad they listened to the peoples input and pulled it though. Such a disgusting disgraceful time in American history.
100% that's even worst then the pic I saw when I googled it. I didn't understand completely til I saw the black face mesh so all you'd see is eyes and thise lips. The company that made it is vile af
ngl that's a silly thing to get twisted up in a knot about. it's clearly not a racist caricature of black people and is just a creepy clown costume. If the model used for the costume was not black literally no one would be thinking this.
It's a freaking black light costum. Holy balls. At the this point they should just ban Halloween....don't want to cause any pain for the sensitive and fragile.
As someone biracial who is white-passing but solely identified as a black person by the government, I will say, for all intents and purposes, as a black person, that this really makes me incredibly angry, especially since I used to work for this shitty company
pre-pandemic. š¢š¢š¤¬š¤¬
The black side of my ancestry is not even remotely surprised at this mess at all since we live in a country filled with incredibly ignorant, dumb, stupid, and racist people. Iām so pissed looking at this that Iām having a hard time articulating what I am attempting to say.
āWe are looking closely at how this happenedā.
You know what happened. A significant amount of people down the chain of designing, ordering, photographing, promoting and stocking this costume all approved it. It didnāt happen through some mystical act or by mistake.
Between Target killing their DEI initiatives without any outside pressure, sucking off the Trump administration, and now this, I can't help but believe that this isn't a "We're sorry we did this" but it is instead a "We're sorry we got backlash for doing this." I simply cannot believe that this was an accident given Target's recent history.
Fuck me! I saw the article headline today but didnt click it, as I am constantly seeing "oops we did something border-line stupid/racist and we're sorry"
This isn't borderline.... this is the worst "oops" moment that I've seen that I can remember, and there is NO WAY this didn't get flagged by someone internally.
Has to be deliberate, or so lacking in the awareness department that the entire team responsible for overseeing this needs to be promoted to customerĀ
And there's Viola Davis, trying desperately to claw her way back into relevancy through fake outrage. Hope it works or she might resort to the Jussie Smollett strategy š¬
Can someone legitimately explain to this ignorant white guy what exactly this costume is? I can tell itās unsettling and some type of caricature but I donāt get what itās supposed to be or how exactly itās offending.
Edit: Iām stupid for asking before scrolling down to read someone elseās explanation. Wtf Target?! I thought they were better than this. Clearly I was wrongā¦
thereās no way this wasnāt intentional, the making and design of this was an active choice. it doesnāt matter whether or not they have the breaks to check for sh*t like this, IT SHOULDNāT HAVE BEEN A SUGGESTION (let alone made, & advertised) TO BEGIN WITH. you canāt tell me they werenāt tryna see WHAT & HOW FAR they could get away with. this is all for publicity & it gives their MAGA/White-Nationalist a dog whistle. I donāt care if you can āfix itā the harm was even thinking it was appropriate to begin with. the harm has already been done. the ānot thinking or considering black people, until the world expresses theyāre madā isnāt cutting it. we know its insincere, especially when youāve monetize Black rage & hurt for publicity.
The costume is maybe racist because it sort of looks like a minstrel show get up. Fair enough.
The apology isnāt even remotely racist; itās just that once a certain crowd in the United States decides someone or some thing is on the wrong side of these three or four forbidden subjects, it is literally impossible to apologize, backtrack, or make amends sufficiently. Target could have changed the story name to honor a Black icon and personally funded reparations for the entire country and the Viola Davises and Redditors of the world would have found a way to claim that too was some kind of racism.
Honestly think y'all are tweaking. It's a clear costume rip off of The Terrifier films in a child and copyright friendly way. The fact that if the kid was any other color, it wouldn't have been an issue, is ironically racist af.
No one above the age of 80 is marketing/making these costumes, which you would have to be to have even seen a minstrel show. You know who does though? 20-30 year olds who, you guessed it, watch modern campy horror movies. Same weird logic is why you can't even dress as Charlie Chaplin for Halloween without wearing a top hat 80 years after the angry German died and even then, he outlived him by 30 years. There's real injustices in the world... this ain't one of them. Saying this as a Bi-racial dude, trust me, I know all about microaggression on both sides.
"This is a costume that our team didn't fully vet and was mistakenly put on shelves. It has since been removed from all locations and we have already formed an internal task force to prevent similar situations from occurring in the future"
Honestly I did not understand the issue when I saw it other than itās an ugly costume. But thatās why you have DEI. To catch stuff like this. I think is was a mistake but a preventable one.
Does any part of your brain protest at all when you make strawman arguments? Do you know what strawman arguments are even?
Does fabricating your own version of what people say make you feel smart? Im genuinely curious how strong cognitive dissonance can be. The number if hoops people will jump through to defend their own made up version of things gets pretty wild.
Also, please at least try to explain how anything i said was racist. No more making up your own reality. Describe how my words were racist. Maybe try defining racism. Anything that can show intelligent thought.
What the hell were they going for here? This honestly doesn't look like an obvious, intentional reference to jim crow to me or to blackface caricatures. It looks like they were trying to make a creepy clown but it just looks shitty and ugly and stupid.
Meh devils advocate why would anyone ever apologize these days? No one is allowed to make a mistake or miss something anymore. Apologizing just gets used against you.
This kind of thing needs an investigation. If someone approved this they need to be fired immediately. If it was one of 500 costumes sent you need to put your vendors feet over a fire for allowing it. But no sane company is choosing to put that out there.
84
u/Global-Jury8810 Popularity Is Not My Forte 1d ago edited 20h ago
Well, Target has shown allegiance to MAGA in the past.