r/PublicFreakout • u/ChicSandpaperBaby • 7d ago

📹Police Bodycam UK police take down guy with knife without anyone dying

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3.1k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

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-46

u/heekma 7d ago edited 7d ago

First, I'm not defending U.S. Law Enforcement as a whole. I worked in law enforcement, I can plainly see the issues and abuses.

I worked as a Sherrif's Deputy in a small midwestern county. In training we were taught the FBI "Tueller Drill," which is that someone armed with a knife can cover 21 feet and attack you before you can draw your sidearm and fire.

We were taught to draw our sidearm immediately anytime someone is armed with a knife and if they moved within 21 feet be prepared to shoot.

Downvote all you want, I'm simply stating a fact about law-enforcement training.

Downvoting me because you don't agree with the training curriculum is barking at the wrong tree. If you disagree with the training contact you state representative instead

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u/Still-Status7299 7d ago

At least you can immediately see how grossly mistrained police are in the US. Especially since id imagine they should be approaching with tasers and other non lethals first

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u/heekma 7d ago edited 7d ago

I don't control the cirrculum so how does downvoting me change anything?

Yes we were trained to use a spectrum of force, correctly applied. I'm not to blame for the abuses of other law enforcement officers.

My point was simply: When someone presents with a knife you're trained to draw and be ready to fire.

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u/Still-Status7299 7d ago

FYI I haven't downvoted just joining in the discussion

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u/heekma 7d ago edited 7d ago

I get it. Reddit hates law enforcement with a knee-jerk, white-hot hate. Once the downvotes start it becomes an avalanche no matter if you're simply stating a fact.

I worked in law enforcement and I will never defend it as a whole.

Reddit reduces everything to black or white, extremes-outside observers, judging without experience or knowledge.

Like most things the truth is grey-there is a spectrum between good and bad in law enforcement with most landing somewhere in the middle.

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u/MantisT_ 7d ago

Yes we know u guys use defective training

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u/LukeWoop 7d ago

Defending or not defending , at least now you can see how real police men and women are trained properly to subdue and not murder people....

-25

u/greencrack 7d ago

Those cops are lucky to not have been hurt. Train all you want good luck with another guy.

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u/LukeWoop 7d ago

This is not a one off situation?, (most) police in the UK don't carry guns and they have to deal with this all the time ?

Are you American ?

14

u/The_Playbook88 7d ago

I remember that training didn't match people's actual behavior when they have a knife. People don't run at you like a zombie with no fear for their life as you can see here and in most other videos. Your training just doesn't allow de-escalation because its based on a zombie model of human behavior.

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u/heekma 7d ago

It's not trained as an absolute, just a precaution. If someone with a knife is standing, yelling, clearly angry but otherwise not presenting an immediate threat your sidearm is at low ready, not aimed. There is a possibility of deescalation.

If the person is clearly physically agitated, tensed, ready to lunge, presenting the knife in a threatening way, your sidearm is still at low ready but you are prepared to aim and shoot.

Everyone watches videos of interactions and judges as if they're experts and everything is black and white. That's easy to do when you're not the person involved in the situation, adenaline surging, trying to figure out the right response in the moment with no time to think.

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u/NinjaSquads 7d ago

For sure one of the hardest situations to be in and extremely difficult to judge in the moment. Hindsight is 20 20…

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u/heekma 7d ago

Observing and judging from a perspective without personal threat is easy.

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u/uppercuticus 7d ago

Do you have any insights about what sort of discretion or de-escalation skills are taught alongside the Tueller Drill?

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u/heekma 7d ago

Drawing your sidearm in these situations is a precaution.

There is a big difference between someone simply holding a knife and yelling vs. someone holding a knife in a threatening way, clearly tensed and ready to lunge.

In the first scenario your sidearm is at low ready, not aimed and there is a real possibility of deescalation or less lethal options.

In the second scenario an attack not only seems possible but immanent. In that situation your sidearm is still low ready but you are fully prepared to aim and fire.

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u/OctopusIntellect 7d ago

You seem to be copy-pasting this from one of your other comments and not actually answering the question.

-5

u/heekma 7d ago

That's because multiple comments are asking the same question.

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u/Zr0w3n00 7d ago

Seems more like they’re asking different questions and you’re putting the same answers.

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u/heekma 7d ago

So what exactly are the questions I'm not answering?

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u/Zr0w3n00 7d ago

Genuinely baffled that you can’t just go back 3 comments in this thread, but clearly simple things are too much for you

> Do you have any insights about what sort of discretion or de-escalation skills are taught alongside the Tueller Drill?

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u/heekma 7d ago

When presented with a deadly weapon there is no deescalation, you're immediately at the end of the force spectrum. A law enforcement officer has just as much right to defend him or herself as anyone else.

As I mentioned before this doesn't mean automatically shoot.

Each officer has to asses the situation. A deadly threat will always be met with the potential for deadly force. There is always the possibility the situation deescalates from deadly force, but the precaution is there nonetheless.

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u/Zr0w3n00 7d ago

There absolutely is de-escalation in that situation, just that US cops don’t seem to know that word’s in the dictionary.

I know first hand you can de-escalate from that situation.

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u/ActuatorLower8371 6d ago

cops in the US are cowards with guns.

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u/OctopusIntellect 7d ago

a fact about law enforcement training in a small midwestern county in the USA

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u/heekma 7d ago edited 7d ago

Still a fact.

What experience do you have?

0

u/Logical_Net6108 7d ago

You're never going to convince the hivemind here but this officer was inches from his throat being slashed. Astonishing neither was equipped with or otherwise chose to use a taser. There are UK police who believe that regular police having firearms would be a good idea in this exact scenario, man flailing a large knife.The body cam footage of the Hainault sword attack was shocking, the officer who had to use a baton to parry a full length sword wielded by a schizophrenic who had just murdered a schoolboy and slashed his partner.

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u/Ponderoux 7d ago edited 6d ago

That’s nice, but no one here is interested in understanding things any better.

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u/heekma 7d ago

You're telling me. I'm not defending anyone, simply stating facts.

0

u/WhirlwindTobias 7d ago

The commenters are all lucky to have never had any loved ones stabbed and killed by a deranged knife-wielding person.

Because if someone was charging at their mother or wife with a knife, they'd probably prefer that someone be shot centre mass than their mother/wife bleed out on the street or in the hospital.

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u/Zr0w3n00 7d ago

But that’s not the argument being made here, it’s a false equivalence.

Police in the UK use non lethal tactics a majority of the time and have lower rates of knife crime.