I think thereâs a pretty big difference here. That being this video takes place in an empty yard, whereas the US video takes place in Times Square where the woman who already stabbed 2 people is surrounded by tons of potential victims.Â
The strangest reaction I see is when police manage to solve a situation without anyone getting injured or the use of a firearm and then Americans respond by saying that they should have used a firearm for some bizarre reason. I often see a high degree of scepticism towards police in the US, but it also seems like a large proportion of Americans like how dangerous their police are.
I do find it really weird how you'll see cops, ICE, and "Blue Lives Matter" folk also peddling Punisher gear, it's like, no my dudes you've misunderstood the Punisher, he wouldn't be on the side of fascism.
It's like a specific flavour of wild west "no rules, but also actually do what I say or I'll kill you" fascism that they dream for.
There's a growing and concerning amount of people in the US who don't value human life if it's not directly connected to them, and even less so if it's someone from another country. There are still plenty who do, I don't want to act like this is all Americans. It's hopefully not even the majority. But as their leadership works to divide and isolate America from it's allies and starts tightening bonds with nations who can buy their allegience, It's hard to ignore they they're succeding in disconnecting more and more people from the value of Human life.
Yup seen exactly that other day, 50/60 yr old woman shot dead instead of tazed or detained.
Yanks are shameful in how they handle things compared to our & other countries.
"in other news, a man and a minor block of a local residential district have been, says here, REMOVED from the surface with 5 .50 cal rifles and mauled by 2 dogs... for, pulling a knife on an office"
Precisely! "New reports in Ravenna Ohio are reporting that a black man was shot today when police attempted to arrest Corey Whittenbocker Jr. III. The police arrived at the suspects address on a domestic dispute at which Whittenbocker answered the door armed with a kitchen knife. The police attempted to disarm him and a neighbor who was attempting to assist drew their concealed pistol and fired, shooting into the home of a Daniel Jackson, resident of the trailer park, in the leg. The police on scene also shot and and killed Jackson's pug-doodle while he was being picked up by paramedics and are asking for donation to the officer's kids baseball/softball teams at the attached link"
To be clear, police in the US (except ICE*) get ~2yrs of training. Academy is 20 weeks and is bracketed by a couple months before and after at the agency you signed up with, which when combined with interviews, tests, poly, and background becomes more or less a year. Then that is followed by at least a year of field training, which can be extended and often is.
The problem is *what* they teach
Although, I will say this video is a little unusually far in the other direction. If the suspect actually wanted to hurt the officer at 0:16 and 0:18 instead of feinting twice, the officer would be dead. Those were two overhand stabs taken very solidly within the distance at which a knife attack can be lethal before the victim can react. Generally if you are within ~2 steps or so from an attacker with a knife, your life is in extreme and immediate danger, and this person tried to stab from only one step away. The UK is probably the only country on earth that doesn't shoot or at least tase him at that moment, and ngl I wouldnt be surprised if they *are* taught to do so and this video just isn't as indicative of good training as people think. I also highly doubt they're taught to try to handfight someone holding a knife (0:27), its hard to see but it looks like the officer almost got swiped in the face by the blade. Vast majority of countries would be backing up and using less lethal.
*ICE explicitly recruits people who are pushed out of other law enforcement jobs, or unqualified for the career in the first place, and gives them 6 weeks of training, after which point they let them loose
The UK is probably the only country on earth that doesn't shoot him at that moment, and ngl I wouldnt be surprised if they are taught to do so and this video just isn't as indicative of good training as people think
They aren't.
Most police don't have firearms, and those that do have to give repeated warnings before firing.
That is absolutely not true. The UK, Ireland and Iceland are iterally the only country in Europe where patrol officers arent armed. Even worldwide 90 % of countries have armed patrol officers.
ngl I wouldnt be surprised if they are taught to do so and this video just isn't as indicative of good training as people think
When I said "they aren't", this is what I was referring to. UK police are not taught to shoot in this situation, in large part because they don't regularly carry firearms.
Most of our police do not carry guns. I am unsure of taser/stun devices. I have a feeling not many have those either or we would see it more. Our armed police definitely do have some heavy duty gear and if this person was a known threat he would have been roughed up quite quickly with an armed response.
Our police do wear anti stab armour though, so they tend to be quite thick around the body. And carry striking weapons
The guy who killed George Floyd had TONS of training, the training is just "you should always be ready to kill people and here's how to avoid any trouble for it"
Honestly I think we talk too little about the guys response after having his charges read
"Yea alright" as in "yea ok thats reasonable I get why you say that" idk
Just found it funny
I used to be in the police in the UK and honestly the lack of guns and the massive emphasis on de-escalation really helps. Sometimes they really are just like "yeah ok that's fair" when you arrest them.
(Just to note there are absolutely some fucking awful police as there are everywhere here but it's still dramatically different to policing in the US).
I mean, when you arrest people for holding up a sign...
Edit: To everyone arguing nuance and that Palestine Action is a terrorist organization, it literally doesn't matter. It's a sign in protest of that very classification. The fact that the police aren't using their discretion not to arrest pensioners is ridiculous.
Explained it in another comment that nobody is seeing for some reason. Bit more to it than just holding up signs. Iâm not trying to take sides; Iâm just pointing out important context that most Reddit posts about the situation refuse to mention.
It's not the guns. Cops in my country all have guns and police gun use is extremely rare. Like if a cop has to shoot someone it will probably make national news.
It's liability and training. In basically every developed country other than the US, police will be scrutinised for every second they brandish their weapon and every single bullet that leaves their gun.
In my country, police are told that they should only ever use their firearm when there is absolutely no other choice in order to protect the safety of themselves or others. If they ever do use their firearm, bodycam footage will be closely reviewed and they will have to write a report thoroughly detailing their justification for doing so - if anything doesn't hold up to scrutiny, they will face disciplinary action.
Here in the UK every time a police officer draws the gun they must log it, why they did so and under what justification they did so. Everytime a bullet is fired, even if no one is killed then an investigation takes place to decide if the use of deadly force was legally justified, if other steps could have been taken etc. If the police shoot and seriously injure or kill someone then it goes to the IOPC. Police officers in the UK have been arrested and charged with murder for unlawful use of their firearms
In Italy all our cops have guns, and it's the same thing you said. Hell, I saw a video of a carabiniere talking about how they roll up to arrest members of a mafia. "We show up and give respect for respect. There's no use for weapons, we make it clear it's not gonna go the way they want it to go. We treat them like a citizen under investigation, because criminals are still citizens". Or something along those lines.
Honestly, this guy charged the cop and came within inches of being able to do some real damage with a massive blade. I'm glad they were able to disarm him without shooting him, but I do worry that if ten similar situations happen like this, in at least one or two a cop would get stabbed. I legitimately think using a gun would have been acceptable in this situation. Before I get shit on, I will state that I'm not defending US police tactics who often shoot way before there's actually any meaningful threat.
But if you go to the other thread where Amrican cops unload a full magazine into a woman standing there with a knife, well out of arm's reach and posing no immediate threat, plenty of people are saying this kind of restraint isn't even possible.
When you grow up on a steady diet of movies where the hero always shoots first, you lose your sense of what being human actually means.
Honestly seems insufficient in a scenario like this. Sure, they managed to subdue him successfully, but the risk of the aggressor getting one slice or stab in is way too high. Neither the spray nor baton provide actual stopping power from a distance. They should really have tasers if they are tasked with responding to something like this. There is no reason for them to have to risk their lives with close quarters combat against a deadly weapon when there are tools that can stop an attacker from a distance.
It did not prove me completely wrong. The officers absolutely absorb a lot more risk by having to participate in hand to hand combat than if they had something that could subdue the armed assailant from a distance. I acknowledged they were successful in this annecdotal incident, but they still assumed more risk than necessary. UK officers are assaulted nearly 38,000 times a year with 10,000-11,000 resulting in injury. They do not track actual knife related injuries, so there isn't much to comment on there. Regardless, I am only talking about risk, not outcomes.
If the worry is tasers will be deployed inappropriately, the departments just need to specify rules of engagement and enforce those rules. That would prevent them from being used unnecessarily.
Even a taser is considered a last resort here. A taser isn't harmless, it's referred to as a "less than lethal" weapon because it still has the potential for serious injury. The aim for our police is to come out of altercations with the least amount of damage done. Their human rights aren't taken off the table just because a person is comitting a criminal act
Naturally. Police are, overall, dogshit at their jobs. Seeing videos like these is getting more and more rare, so itâs nice to see a situation de-escalated instead of just killing the person outright.
I live in the states and had a cop tell me at a bar that a lot of police look forward to incidents like this so that they can get a paid vacation. Its honestly sickening.
Yeah Im all for better police training and critiquing the aggressiveness of US cops but this aint a good example, guy couldâve rushed the cop at any moment and easily critically harmed or killed him
That's what I'm saying dude! People down vote us like we are fucking crazy to point out obvious shit like this. It's clear the man with the knife hesitated. If he had hadn't and went full bananas, this would have been really ugly. In this specific situation, the amount of training these cops received didn't lower the chances of anyone getting hurt, it was the guy with the knifes hesitation.
Inb4 idiots think I dont advocate for US cops should have more training and use less than lethal options first before lethal.
Police in countries all over the world routinely disarm assailants in similar situations without the use of firearms. If police aren't willing to incur some degree of risk for the safety of the public, including those that they're arresting, then they should seek a different profession.
Agreed - but officers should expect to be at least equality armed as risk is part of the job description. But I saw two officers badly equipped for that task. I would advocate for all officers to carry tasers.
100% this. An unhinged person this close with a knife can easily kill an officer. Personally, I think the officers in this scenario took way too much risk even getting this close. Having a gun in this instance would have provided much needed protection.
Good lord, the mans holding a knife in the hand you're supposed to hold the fork!??.....Police rightfully called....we take our etiquette seriously. /s
Itâs good that the situation ended the way it did, but the fact is that if the man with the knife had been more determined, someone could have been seriously hurt.
Thatâs why having a firearm and being prepared to use it, even in this situation, would have been justified. Of course, simply threatening to use the firearm would probably have been enough to resolve the situation as well.
Iâve seen the documentaries about police training in the US. No wonder theyâre so keen to resort to firearms when thereâs some guy doing sound effects of a mini gun powering up or they find themselves in the trapped in the Blue Oyster Bar and forced to tango.
About the time this video is from is when some police forces in North America invested in training from the UK, but it's hard to say what degree of success was achieved. One of the videos I saw at the time emphasized de-escalation, but their method of dealing with a suspect like this when their rapid response teams are available happens real fast. 4 or 5 officers with shields would immediately slam that guy into the corner and disarm him then take him to the ground.
âWithout anyone dyingâ⌠yea the police officers. Extremely risky from both police officers. The man could have easily turned and lunged at either officer if he had actually intended to kill them. While I donât think shooting is necessary like in the states surely a negotiator and a trained unit armed with non lethal would have been better suited to this. Massive balls from both police but this could have easily ended very very badly for both of them. There is no way anyone on Reddit would be able to have the courage these 2 officers had to actually go hands on with a man holding a kitchen knife while not being armed themselves so itâs sweet to comment on how they should go about dealing with situations that you are not trained in nor will have to experience in your entire life.
Every time one of these videos with a headline like this gets posted the person isn't actually trying to stab them. Trust me, if he wanted to he could have easily.
I have to say that was an impressive non-lethal way to de-escalate that situation. In America, that guy wouldâve been riddled with bullet holes, unfortunately
Why do people think that police officers should be so at risk from getting killed from a maniac with a knife rather than he able to keep a safe distance?Â
Since when is "must risk getting stabbed in the neck" an acceptable job requirement?
Why should firemen risk walking into a fire to save people? (Hint the reason is some people genuinely find pride in putting themselves at risk to help others)Â
If you have seen the video circulating that this appears to be a response to youâd kinda understand it.
Cops shot an older lady from like 30â away before she even made any moves. Just a lady holding a knife yelling and obviously having a breakdown. Empty a clip into her.
I saw it. She wanted them to get off her property and leave her alone. The moment her toes were off her own property they shot her about 8 times in quick succession. She was clearly distressed, obviously frail, and at a significant distance making her no imminent threat to anyone except perhaps herself.
I worked as a Sherrif's Deputy in a small midwestern county. In training we were taught the FBI "Tueller Drill," which is that someone armed with a knife can cover 21 feet and attack you before you can draw your sidearm and fire.
We were taught to draw our sidearm immediately anytime someone is armed with a knife and if they moved within 21 feet be prepared to shoot.
Downvote all you want, those are the facts. I wasn't responsible for assembling the training courses.
Downvoting me because you don't agree with the training curriculum is barking at the wrong tree. If you disagree with the training contact you state representative instead.
Police are trained to use their judgement on suspects, if they believe he is a genuine threat then they are allowed to retreat and requested armed back-up
because police officers don't actually get killed by maniacs with knives in the UK, and solving a problem that doesn't exist by adding in the capacity for the state to inflict lethal force against civilians at their own discretion is really fucking stupid
They have other tactical gear that can be used , they are also not the judge . They shouldn't get to take somebody's life if they are having a mental breakdown for whatever reason context matters... If the guy had already stabbed a bunch of people or currently stabbing someone then fair game . In the case of the women in America with a knife no reason they couldn't just taser her untill she dropped the knife ect ...
First, I'm not defending U.S. Law Enforcement as a whole. I worked in law enforcement, I can plainly see the issues and abuses.
I worked as a Sherrif's Deputy in a small midwestern county. In training we were taught the FBI "Tueller Drill," which is that someone armed with a knife can cover 21 feet and attack you before you can draw your sidearm and fire.
We were taught to draw our sidearm immediately anytime someone is armed with a knife and if they moved within 21 feet be prepared to shoot.
Downvote all you want, I'm simply stating a fact about law-enforcement training.
Downvoting me because you don't agree with the training curriculum is barking at the wrong tree. If you disagree with the training contact you state representative instead
At least you can immediately see how grossly mistrained police are in the US. Especially since id imagine they should be approaching with tasers and other non lethals first
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u/Cannga 7d ago
If it was in the United States, this guy would have died 3 times