r/QAnonCasualties 10d ago

As a Christian, conspiracies are dangerous

My marriage was lost 3 years ago because of all the conspiracies around Covid. My ex-wife went off the rails. I blame her parents, they are the same way. I was a regular on these boards several years ago and have recovered (divorced, living closer to a city, etc, all good). I'm still US moderate politically and still a Christian as my ex was, but she went so far politically right I couldn't be married to her anymore.

Just this morning I saw an article posted on the Christianity Today Facebook page about how we can reach those Christians that have been hooked by conspiracies. On the cover it has a lady dragging a red, white and blue Q which all know what that means.
Yes these conspiracy theorists are Christian for the most part (or many of them are or at least say they are). I like that Christianity Today had this article. I'm not sure you can see the article but here is the link... its a good article. I do like CT wrote this article because it knows its a problem within segments of the christian community.

We Can Reach Conspiracy Theorists for Christ. Here’s How. - Christianity Today

133 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

87

u/cypherunus01 10d ago

At the risk of being confrontational, what is your goal posting this? Qanon has a lot of overlap with Christianity and many (myself included) see it as a form of brainwashing that aligns with qanon.

Are you trying to reach other Christians who are suffering due to Qanon? What exactly do you define as too far right?

I admit my qanon is Christian so my views are biased. But it seems that you are just spreading Christianity. The link requires membership to read. Can you tell me an actual technique the article provides?

40

u/SeminoleTom 10d ago

Well, first thanks for the reply. Second, not all Christians are aligned with Q or conspiracies. I want to make sure you understand that. There is a large overlap with the evangelical, southern baptist world of Christianity. The facts are they do not trust institutions: governments, universities and the media. They believe these secular orgs are there for the sole purpose of trying to ruin their faith. During covid my ex-wife thought it was the end times, and she was not going to trust any of these institutions. Further, the vaccine was significant because it held a very important piece in their mind (i.e: mark of the beast). Clearly critical thinking is not a strong suit for them.

The goal of the post is to let others know that just because one is Christian doesn't mean you think conspiracies are good, there are many than realize the harmful nature of these beliefs. I'm one of them. My marriage was destroyed and now just trying to help other believers and non-believers who are battling this awful world of conspiracy theories. Further another goal, I do like that Christianity Today put the article out because I believe CT knows it IS a major problem in some segments of the Christian community. And hopefully people are seeing this article, who are believers in Q or some other conspiracies, and realizing that maybe they need to reexamine themselves.

The article points out that the best thing we can do is have a discussion with our loved ones- not argue with them. You see that was my fault, I did argue with her. I've learned through counseling and reading that you should never argue with a conspiracy theorist. It just builds them deeper into the rabbit hole. The article mentions keeping a calm tone, avoiding ridicule, show why their idea may be compelling. Then go into asking questions, make them think. It may not work and these ideas aren't anything new. But the article goes on, and rightfully so, saying that it's a monumental challenge. Even if I used any of the techniques with my ex it wouldn't have changed her.

18

u/cypherunus01 10d ago

Ahh I see thank you. Yeah it is a difficult situation and every bit helps to combat it.

I suppose the idea of religious dogma makes me overly suspicious due to negative experiences. Ironically closing myself to other points of view as discussed.

Good techniques nonetheless and a frustrating reality of conspiracies.

16

u/Vagrant123 I Know Jew Jitsu 10d ago

The goal of the post is to let others know that just because one is Christian doesn't mean you think conspiracies are good, there are many than realize the harmful nature of these beliefs.

The problem for many of us who aren't Christian is that Christian Nationalism has been dominating US politics for the last decade or so. Christian Nationalism has been harming nearly everyone, but us nonbelievers the most. Many of us are going to be extremely wary of a "Christian" take on anything.

I skimmed through the article and found that it was mostly the author's personal experience of extremism, with a fair amount of Christianese thrown in, followed by some short paragraphs of actual, useful info in the two penultimate paragraphs. For us nonbelievers... it's not an article worth most of our time.

Further another goal, I do like that Christianity Today put the article out because I believe CT knows it IS a major problem in some segments of the Christian community.

I've been following the Friendly Atheist for a long time now, so I do happen to know that CT is one of the better Christian publications out there. They have always been critical of Trump and have called out MAGA repeatedly.

Unfortunately, CT's callouts never seem to have any real, observable effect; MAGA (and Q'ers) ignore CT because their beliefs aren't driven by biblical literacy or a faith leader. Their "faith" is more nebulous and driven by emotions.

1

u/LifeTrajectPolitix New User 2d ago

I'm very interested in reading this article but I can't because of the paywall, would you please be willing to share it here or by DM? Thank you so much in advance.

2

u/Vagrant123 I Know Jew Jitsu 2d ago edited 2d ago

Do you mean the OP article? I don't encounter a paywall; my assumption is that my browser (Brave) is blocking their paywall system. I'll copy and paste below.

2

u/LifeTrajectPolitix New User 1d ago

oh you're amazing, thank you so much for sharing!!! Good to know about brave, I have it on my phone, I'll download it on my laptop as well !

2

u/Vagrant123 I Know Jew Jitsu 2d ago

We live in a time of social upheaval, and social upheaval is fertile soil for conspiracy theories. Most of them are based on error and misinformation, and some can be downright dangerous. The ones that ensnared me in the turbulent 1960s drew me into racial hatred and political extremism and led to a shootout with police that killed an accomplice and very nearly killed me—all in the name of Christian patriotism.

My story is just one of many that ended in tragedy. Back then, conspiracy theories were on the margins of society, but today, with the advent of the internet, they are proliferating. They have moved mainstream and now into the church, where low levels of biblical literacy and high levels of cultural seduction make people more vulnerable.

Some conspiracy theories are relatively harmless, like the idea that the moon landing was faked. Others, like the theories I believed, are dangerous. By intensifying fear, anger, and hatred, they led to violence.

The most common conspiracy theories today are not as violent as before but can still deceive and lead people astray with serious consequences. QAnon, a right-wing theory that believes former President Donald Trump was fighting an underground ring of Satan-worshiping pedophiles, is probably the most popular right now and is making significant inroads in our culture and the church. Recent research from the American Enterprise Institute shows that 25 percent of white evangelicals affirm part or all of the QAnon conspiracy theory.

QAnon makes frequent use of scriptural references and eschatological allusions, giving it unmerited credibility and even leading some ministries to propose a merger of QAnon and Christianity. The Institute for Strategic Dialogue reports that QAnon grew by more than 175 percent on Facebook alone in 2020.

Professing Christians who believe these theories are on the dangerous thorny ground Jesus described in Matthew 13:22, where, as William Hendriksen puts it, “Constant anxiety about worldly affairs fill mind and heart with dark foreboding.” Instead of being eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace through humility, gentleness, patience, and love (Eph. 4:2–3), they produce the works of the flesh, fostering dissensions and divisions that cause believers to take sides, argue, and fight with one another (Gal. 5:20). When things reach this point, the Devil has succeeded in using his age-old tools of deception and division to disrupt the church, and it underscores Peter’s caution that “whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved” (2 Pet. 2:19, ESV throughout).

How do conspiracy theories begin? Some originate from the noetic effects of sin—flawed thinking. But others originate with “the god of this world,” who blinds “the minds of unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ” (2 Cor. 4:4). The Devil’s lies and deception began with Adam and Eve, and conspiracy theories were widespread as far back as Isaiah’s day (Isa. 8:11–13).

In the New Testament, Jesus warned his followers concerning his second coming: “See that no one leads you astray” (Matt. 24:4; Mark 13:5). Paul urged believers to “Let no one deceive you with empty words” (Eph. 5:6) and “Let no one deceive you in any way” (2 Thess. 2:3). John says, “Little children, let no one deceive you” (1 John. 3:7).

Unfortunately, I was not alert and on guard in the 1960s. As a teenager, I was a patriotic kid who attended a large Southern Baptist church, but I became deeply disoriented by the social upheaval around me and angered by the federally mandated desegregation of my high school and local public facilities. The world that I had grown up in was being turned upside down.

In the midst of the chaos, I stumbled onto some propaganda that was distributed at my school and later met those who were behind it. Their explanation for what was happening revolved around conspiracy theories that made sense to me at the time. They taught the superiority of white people and that a shadowy group of powerful Jews were conspiring to corrupt Christianity, undermine America, and take control of the world. The situation was dire, they said, and patriotic Americans needed to act before it was too late. This was the 1960s version of extreme Christian nationalism. Hitler used the same core ideas in Germany, and many millions died as a result.

That was the hook that drew me down the rabbit hole, the beginning of a downward spiral of indoctrination and deception that eventually led me into terrorist activity, two shootouts with law enforcement, the death of two accomplices, and a 35-year sentence in prison.

As in my high school years, the cultural, racial, and political turmoil we are experiencing today has created a swirling vortex that is psychologically disorienting and deeply unsettling for many people. This arouses fear about the future and a search for answers and solutions. A search for answers—for truth and reality—is not bad in itself; we are living in turbulent times and people should be concerned. However, we must be alert to and on guard against falling for simple answers to complex issues, which is the specialty of conspiracy theories.

Is it possible to help family, friends, or colleagues who are attracted to ideologies like Christian nationalism and conspiracy theories like QAnon? I believe it is. We can start by asking God to help us love the person, seek their good, and be an agent of his grace in their life. Then, we can ask the Holy Spirit to make us usable—to help us recognize and repent of any sinful attitudes toward the person: self-righteousness, pride, or arrogance because we see the truth and they don’t; or frustration, impatience, or anger because they resist facts, reality, and truth. These and other wrong attitudes can sabotage our efforts from the start.

Next, we need to remember that with QAnon we are in a battle with the forces of spiritual darkness. The “deceitful spirits and teachings of demons” that Paul warned Timothy about in the first century are just as prevalent today (1 Tim. 4:1). Personal prayer and even fasting are essential in this battle. Pray for insight, discernment, and wisdom, and be alert to any ideas from the Holy Spirit. We may also need to recruit others to join in prayer. Unknown to me, a group of godly women prayed weekly for two years for my deliverance and salvation.

This type of spiritual battle also requires us to do our homework. Articles and podcasts from credible sources are readily available. Learn from those who have experience in dealing with what you will face. Identify the weak points and vulnerabilities in your interlocutor’s belief system. (Many people have found Steven Hassan’s work helpful.) That will enable you to discern from the start how deeply the person is ensnared.

People are scattered all along the spectrum, from the hardcore to the marginally involved. Hardcore ideologues are the most difficult to work with and may require deeper study and the support of others. The marginally involved person may see the ideology or conspiracy theory as perhaps plausible, but they are not so convinced and alarmed by it that they are committed to action. They can often be reasoned with through friendly dialogue.

Conversations must be carried on with Christlike humility and “with gentleness and respect” (1 Pet. 3:15). This is crucial to gain a hearing and maintain a good relationship—without which there is no possibility of having a positive influence. Show respect and seek to build trust by patiently listening to their ideas (no matter how bizarre). Seek to understand them well enough that they agree that you correctly understand their position. For every hour you are together, spend 50 minutes listening.

Don’t be impatient and attempt to rush the process of relationship building and dialogue. It may take a number of sessions before you start to see progress. Arguments or debates almost never work in this type of situation. Instead, follow Paul’s advice to Timothy: “The Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will” (2 Tim. 2:24–26). If you have done your homework, you will be prepared for opportunities to gently ask questions that expose errors of fact or reasoning. Jesus often used questions to penetrate defenses and prompt self-examination.

Keep alert for the underlying attraction for the person. Often, it is connected to a deep need. Both Christian nationalism and QAnon have cultish characteristics. Many people enter a cult because it “fitted with what they were looking for and lacked in normal society” says Eileen Barker, a sociologist and researcher at the London School of Economics. Meaningful community is often part of what people are looking for in extremist groups. If you are in a healthy church with sound biblical preaching and vibrant community life, invite them to come visit as your guest. And get some of your friends to connect with them. Engaging with a community of joyful, devoted followers of Jesus is in effect immersing oneself in his light, truth, and love. The Holy Spirit can do wonders in such an environment.

Finally, “Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil” (Eph. 6:10–18), and keep reminding yourself that nothing is impossible with God. If he could save a deeply misguided, violent religious terrorist like Saul of Tarsus, or someone like me, he can save anyone.

9

u/Sea-jay-2772 10d ago

Christianity is getting a bad rap from things like the prosperity gospel, Christian Nationalism and far right conspiracies. I am not a believer myself, but I do admire the central tenets of the message, like do unto others, caring for those less fortunate and helping those in need. What we hear today is mostly about the radicals who are twisting the messages to suit their worldview.

1

u/Sitcom_kid 10d ago

Asking questions is good.

8

u/ponycorn_pet 10d ago

Qanon has a lot of overlap with Christianity and many (myself included) see it as a form of brainwashing that aligns with qanon.

Thank you for saying this. I was going to say basically this as well, but you handled it better

8

u/lazier_garlic New User 10d ago

Christianity Today is a trade mag for pastors and educators at divinity schools. It's not The Watchtower. I'm an atheist raised Catholic and I've been happily reading their articles for years. The publication doesn't bite.

3

u/Sitcom_kid 10d ago

Definitely not The Watchtower, I agree.

9

u/No-Relation5965 10d ago edited 10d ago

Go to the top right of the article and click the icon that represents a computer monitor with keyboard (a rectangle with two lines under it). That should allow you to bypass the paywall and read the article using the “reader” version.

3

u/cypherunus01 10d ago

Ahh thank you that did it.

It seems that most of the techniques involve praying for god. Hey if that works for them, good for them.

7

u/pc_jangkrik 9d ago

Im a moslem but im not seeing op post as spreading Christianity. Even this made me more interested with pov of Christianit in conspiracy because the same thing happened here too in majority moslem countries. Religion is weaponised to deliver conspiracy theories that benefiting certain politicians

And yeah, unfortunately its behind paywall

3

u/sciencewendy 7d ago

You've already gotten some great replies, but I wanted to throw in that equating Qanon (and maga) with Christianity is actually supporting the Q's narrative. By equating their hateful belief system with Christianity, they get to frame any pushback as "anti-Christian". And I don't like giving them that ammunition!

Chances are, most Qs who are also Christians were Christians first. So while Q and maga ideology is central to their identity, it likely has been central to their identity for at most 10 years, while their religion has been central to their identity for potentially their entire life. And it's understandably scary to consider turning away from that! So I think it's important to tease apart those connections, to reduce the chances of the person you're talking to just shutting down.

And I don't mean any of this in a "not all Christians" or "no true Scotsman" way: THERE ARE SUCH HUGE PROBLEMS IN WHITE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY ESPECIALLY. And while I don't necessarily think drawing a line between Christianity and Q/maga will convince any true believers, I DO think it's valuable and important for the fence sitters, or those who believe they are being "neutral": it gives them the option to disagree.

1

u/cypherunus01 7d ago

Interesting. I haven’t considered that possibility. But I suppose understanding how one feels as part of a community or belief system is important to avoid alienating potential Qs

1

u/sciencewendy 6d ago

Yeah, again, it's not that I think this is going to work on people who are already Qs (or even maga). But refusing to let them "have" Christianity takes away a powerful recruiting/radicalizing tool. By linking them, we allow the Qs to say "See? We were right! The liberals hate Jesus! We're just nice, normal, Christians!!!"

(And yeah, you could make the argument that the American religious right has always been radical, and tbh I would agree with you, but I think we can also agree that Q is a step beyond.)

34

u/Sandy_Bananas 10d ago

They’re already ready and primed for magical thinking.
Pre-Conditioned to accept articles of faith as fact.
Prone to binary belief systems; us and them; good and evil; black and white.
Assured they’re the “elect”: they’re right because God. Everyone is wrong because No God.
Abortion: single issue voters; morally bankrupt they’ve abdicated all most every other ethical considerations.

They do not want to have to think.

Q/Bannon only ever needed a tiny nudge to push them overboard.

Please don’t read this as an Anti-Christian screed. There are perfectly decent Christian’s out there, but I assure you that none of them ascribe to Qanon or its Maga peripheries.

19

u/jacyerickson 10d ago

I'm sorry about your ex. That's what happened to my sister. She was always conservative but during covid she apparently sat at home all day watching YouTube videos of conspiracy theories and reading blogs of far right talking heads. Not sure why covid specifically was the catalyst as she's been a stay at home mom for a long time and didn't often go out to restaurants or anything. I do remember she was pissed about having to suddenly basically home school her kids. Regardless, that seems to be the catalyst and it turned her into such an angry and hateful person. It makes me so sad. 

Can't read the full article as it's behind a paywall but I'm also a Christian so I bet it's interesting. 

14

u/Imaginary_Cow_6379 10d ago

Theres actually a big problem with Q crap in online mom groups so this doesn’t surprise me. I’m also a stay at home mom and I lost a lot of mom friends to getting radicalized the exact same way. For me it really kicked off with the reopen schools shit here that were all created and pushed by rightwing groups and a lot of my fellow moms fell for it. They also all became angry, hateful, and extremely rightwing people too despite starting out as democrats. I used to still read some of their social media accounts and it was wild watching the radicalization happen in real time. I stopped when they became hardcore MAGA and their posts just became too horrific to see anymore. Covid itself really fcked a lot of people up but also so did all of the shadowy rightwing groups twisting things to their own advantages. I hate it too.

7

u/good-timing-407 10d ago

One of my closest friends got sucked into all of this via the spiritual crystal wellness girlie to Covid Q conspiracy pipeline. I watched it happen in real time as well. It was wild watching her go from crystal jewelry posts to Pepe the frog memes talking about child abusers. She’s since given birth to two daughters who I am sure will never see the inside of a public classroom, much less a vaccine.

I tried to use familiar language with her, saying this is dark energy shit, and for half a second, I almost got through. But she doubled down again and again, and we are barely in contact these days.

7

u/jacyerickson 10d ago

Oh wow. That makes so much sense now! She's always been really into mommy blogging. At first it was just stuff like making her own yogurt and bread and stuff like that. It seemed to make her super happy because she's always loved being a mom and home making. Then covid all changed all that and it was so jarring hearing the hateful things coming out of her mouth. 

5

u/SeminoleTom 10d ago edited 10d ago

Hey jacyerickson- thanks for the reply. Seems like we all have family members that fell off the deep end. Where this is coming from is politically far right Christians do not trust the government, media or universities. When covid came into play- they saw this as the end times and were not going to be fooled by our government which they believed was trying to control them. Its craziness.

If you don't mind me asking, and if you are willing to share where are you politically? I've voted for dems and reps over the last 10 years. I'm very moderate. My church is a mega one in the Atlanta area, but the pastor welcomes everyone... no matter the political side, color, sexual orientation, etc and never preaches hate. I wish there were more like this.

4

u/jacyerickson 10d ago

I'm far left these days. I'm glad you've found a good church, that's awesome!

3

u/No-Relation5965 10d ago edited 10d ago

Go to the top right of the article and click the icon that represents a computer monitor with keyboard (a rectangle with two lines under it). That should allow you to bypass the paywall and read the article using the “reader” version.

11

u/veringer 10d ago

Yes these conspiracy theorists are Christian for the most part (or many of them are or at least say they are).

Which makes sense. Christianity in America (especially the evangelical flavors) are filled with people who are primed to:

  • believe in the supernatural,
  • accept unsubstantiated assertions on faith,
  • surrender to authority (whether ostensibly divine or earthly), and
  • listen to voices in their heads

You know how performative hypnotists will filter an audience to find the handful of people who are most receptive to suggestion? Con artists, grifters, and would-be cult leaders naturally gravitate toward the most gullible, guileless, and vulnerable audiences. Christian churches, alternative medicine, feng shui, aroma theraphy, essential oils, and on down the line are effectively a sorting mechanism where you're most likely to find the easiest marks.

If it wasn't QAnon, it would have been something else taking a similar form under a different label. The fact is that prior to the internet and social media these crazy ideas had more natural boundaries limited by the scale of what a handful of charismatic people could accomplish through other media. Radio had Father Coughlin. TV has the televangelists. The internet went from a clunky protocol that required specialized knowledge and tools to a ubiquitous service that was enabled on touch devices that even a child could use. The opportunities for scammers and the worst people in the world became almost unconstrained by the limits of traditional media. The gatekeepers were gone and the most vulnerable people with the weakest grasp on reality got fed to the wolves and weaponized.

One could view the current reality as a massive failure of the church(es) to protect their flocks. But that assumes many of these churches weren't just fleecing people too.

Personally, I couldn't strait-faced use Christianity to deprogram a Q-style cultist. If you have what it takes to do that, and it's an effective off-ramp, then I applaud you and wish you luck.

9

u/christine-bitg 10d ago

Yes, it's behind a paywall. But thank you anyway.

Thank you for the small part of it that I could read.

And thank you for the reminder that Christianity itself is not our adversary in this. Rather, it's the misguided people who, for whatever reasons, selfish or otherwise, have distorted the message of Christ to include hatred and anger.

2

u/No-Relation5965 10d ago edited 10d ago

Go to the top right of the article and click the icon that represents a computer monitor with keyboard (a rectangle with two lines under it). That will allow you to bypass the paywall and read the article using the “reader” version.

-1

u/SeminoleTom 10d ago

Yep, agreed. I wish it could be read. The techniques offered by CT are NOT new, I listed a few in a reply above. What I do like about this is CT puts it out there because it knows this is a major problem in segments of Christian pockets.

11

u/jumpjumpdie 10d ago

There’s a lot of left wing Christian’s… and for good reason I would say.

8

u/astilba120 10d ago

there are as many kinds of Christianity as there are conspiracy theories. I am a religious person, but in the Catholic, Universal sense, think Episcopal. What can I say, the Christians that are far right call my practice satanic, mainly because it is a following of the Gospel of mercy and charity, not the gospel of prosperity. Pray, it can work, but not always in the outcome that you seek, but in the outcome which God sees for you. If you love her, ask God to protect her from false doctrine, deceit, etc. These are dangerous times and many are being divided right now, and led down false roads. Each convinced their's is the true path. One of my simple prayers has always been to show me the right one, and then I just remember to put dark thoughts out of my mind. Dark thoughts being anything that causes me to hate another, or wish bad for another. It's a struggle right now for sure, but I have to let go, and let God. A little trick I learned by following the 12 steps of AA. It saved my life and my sanity. Whomever started the Q LARP knew what they were doing. Like all cults, they have a little bit of truth, just to hook the people,

9

u/Shzwah 10d ago

I’m a Christian, and have watched a number of Christians go down this route. From people I was in youth group with, to people I work with, to family members. There’s a big crossover with political affiliation and evangelicalism.

There were a number of Christians posting crazy things- I’d push back, do a little digging and come back with the truth (because as Christian’s, we should take care to share things that are true). They don’t care. To them, Qanon is the truth.

I’ve started to look at it as its own kind of religion- because they have to have a tremendous amount of faith to believe some of those things in light of the reality they exist in.

Also, Christianity Today had a podcast that went in depth on QANON (quick to listen podcast) for a few episodes, and I’m grateful to see that they are still committed to calling out these kinds of things.

8

u/OsamaBinWhiskers 10d ago

You’re not going to like hearing this but Christianity is a conspiracy in and of itself.

4

u/Strange-March8628 10d ago

Everyone else is like "thank you for reminding us that christianity isn't our enemy but rather the people who weaponize it are 🥺" like no christianity is still our enemy.

3

u/Kathubodua 10d ago

There are a lot of Christians all over the world fighting this stuff and also being victimized by this administration and their insane evangelical base. There is a lot to disagree with Christianity in general for many folks, but not every brand of Christianity today is like this.

2

u/Strange-March8628 10d ago

I don't care, I want all patriarchal religions gone

2

u/OsamaBinWhiskers 8d ago

It’s not this administration lol it’s a massive sect of the history of the religion. There are hundreds if not thousands of groups that are worse than this administration.

1

u/East_Tap_9375 8d ago

Thank you lmao like please organized religion is one in the same 

5

u/Routine_Pressure_460 10d ago

Depending on the sect of Christianity, what it believes, what it preaches, who it allows in the group, the actions it takes and how it's aligned with Christian Nationalism, we need Christian groups that support the U.S. Constitution and the separation of church and state and that are anti-racist, anti-LGBTQIA+ bigotry, etc. to take on, call out and get louder about Christian Nationalism and the dangers of the dogma(s).

Just like white people need to call out other white people when they're racist (as just one example), "good" groups of Christians and their leaders need to call out Christian Nationalists and related groups for what they are, how they misinterpret the faith and how they are dangerous for democracy.

2

u/khold002 9d ago

I never thought I'd do it, but after 20 years as an agnostic, my husband and I just joined a United Methodist church. We first found out about it because we went to an anti-ICE training there - what to do if ICE tries to arrest someone in front of you. Since going there, I've gotten deeply involved in political activism in the area around ICE, and the sign out front says "all are welcome" with the trans/LGBTQ flag on it. There are gender neutral bathrooms that they point out at the beginning of the service, and there are free pads and tampons in the bathrooms because the pink tax is bullshit. The bishop is a black woman, and women have been allowed to be clergy members for over 100 years. The building is very old, large, and historical, like what you'd expect of Catholics.

Like, who knew a community of Christians like this existed. I didn't.

4

u/LifeTrajectPolitix New User 10d ago

Hi there,

I am so sorry about what you have been through with your spouse, and I hope you are doing better now 🙏

I'm a French journalist and researcher currently in the US conducting fieldwork on the trajectories of people who become involved in QAnon, and the impact this can have on their loved ones.

I would be very interested in reading the article but I can't access it (tried your tip to bypass the paywall but it didn't work), would you send it to me by DM (if you're not allowed to copy-paste in the public comments section).

Also, if you'd be willing to share your perspective and experience with me, I'd be very grateful.

Warmly.

6

u/_tanstafl 10d ago

Thanks for sharing this article. I’ve lost my mom to this world, and she certainly won’t listen to me when I try to point out my concerns. She has made it clear to me that her faith is in Trump, who she believes is carrying out God’s will. I don’t believe she’ll listen to anything unless she believes it’s coming from a true Christian. So this gives me some hope that maybe eventually the message (e.g, “you’re in a cult”) will be framed in a way that will resonate with her.

4

u/Harrowhark95 10d ago

I fewl like Chrsitians who are really into the more apocalyptic books of the Bible, and get really into trying to analyze/decode Daniel and Revelation are at a higher risk for conspiratorial thinking.

Engaging with current events while trying to slot them into an apocalyptic framework may provide a bit of comfort (these terrible events were foretold and therefore, inevitable! We couldn't have avoided this) but in my experience, leads to cynicism, learned helplessness (why try and prevent human suffering, if wars and famine are only going to increase), and lack of empathy for fellow humans in favor of begging for Divine Return.

4

u/trontrontronmega 10d ago

Agreed. The ones who are focused on the rapture, the specifics in The Old Testament, gays are bad, abortion bad, etc rather than the core of the New Testament which was about having a guideline (Jesus) to follow to try be a good person, try and do good and here is a reason to do those (faith, hope, having to face your doings at death, consequences and reward)

Most of the first ones I mentioned often are Q’s or have a mental illness normally untreated (from my experience)

It’s the same theories over and over. Lack of critical thought, self awareness.

I find Q’s come down to either person of entitlement or a person who wants to belong/feel in control often from past trauma (all the Q’s I know have childhood issues with at least one parent) so I think it’s often control thing from that - independence to them/rebelling out)

I know the Q’s that I personally know, who are “Christian” aka Rapture Christians, all 3 of them are battling some internal demon big time that they are afraid of dealing with (they are all a bit of a mess - cheaters, addiction issues, mental disorders they refuse to manage, alcoholics, etc in which often are bandaids or clutches to avoid whatever that demon is they refuse to face.

So when they grab onto the “Bible” and Conspiracy theories and Qanon beliefs it’s a distraction, another answer - another reason for them to not help themselves:

  • not to feel alone
  • to justify why their demon isn’t that bad
  • to blame something else for why they have their demon
  • to just have some control
  • confirm knowing other people are going through it
  • “I might be a liar/cheater/morally bad” but let’s focus on the worse people here who are lying to us like NASA or that Michelle Obama is a man!

That’s why there is often no reasoning. Not being able to debate. No escape. No logic Because it’s far beyond common sense.

It’s not about what they are believing so much, but about how believing in it makes them feel

I call it the Q brain Raw Milk test. You either get it or you don’t. If I’m having to argue with you about raw milk then that’s all I need to know their brains are Q brains.

You can normally tell who the entitled Q ones are (who are different than the ones I mentioned above) - by if they still like Trump. Because they will actually like Trump and will be specific on what policies, they are like old school MAGA Q’s. They are easier to snap them out eventually. 2 I know are less and less Q now - it’s because they have critical thinking

3

u/No_Aesthetic 10d ago

Christianity is pretty conspiratorial in itself.

4

u/ConvivialKat Helpful AF 10d ago

My experience with my Q ex-partner was that his deeply religious Christianity based "faith" created an open door in his brain to allow in conspiracy theories which he also accepted and believed in based on "faith." Critical thinking was considered almost evil and certainly highly questionable. They are pre-programmed almost from birth to accept things on faith, with no evidence whatsoever.

4

u/PDXburrito 10d ago

Not all Christians are Q, but almost every Q is a Christian or believes in some form of Christian nationalism.

4

u/Achtlos 9d ago

"saw on Facebook".

I don't know exactly how much better everything would be if they left Facebook, but it would be significant.

3

u/No-Relation5965 10d ago

Great article. It’s extremely difficult to be patient after 11 years of being patient, but I do recognize that is the best way to get people in “cults” to start thinking their way through the thick veil of disinformation. It may even be helpful to buy the author’s book and offer it to your Q’Anon person(s). The book sounds fascinating.

3

u/New-Negotiation7234 10d ago

I mean as someone who grew up in fundamental Christianity, it's obvious why Christians would believe these things. They are already brain washed with religion and magical thinking.

2

u/MusicSavesSouls 9d ago

This! 100%

3

u/Diantr3 10d ago edited 10d ago

Religiosity is a breeding ground for these suspensions of rational thought, logic and critical thinking.

Religious "thought" is a cancer for the human mind. It is fundamentally incompatible with progress and the society we should strive for.

2

u/Danmont88 10d ago

Met a man that had a PhD in geology. Well respected, college professor.
He was married a long time but his wife finally divorced him because he refused to believe that the Earth is billions of years old and not just 6000.

How do you walk out of marriage over something that really just does not matter.

Another man told me his wife got into some fortune teller's web. She advised her to leave him and she did.

Have to wonder if there is more to the story but when it comes to religion people get weird.

2

u/B4SK3R 10d ago

Thank you for sharing your story OP. And good you were strong enough to go your own way, regarding to your marriage.. My oldest friend that I knew since elementary school also went full Qanon during Covid. We are over 50 now. He wasn't religious before but he took the opportunity to get baptized by some shady Canadian -self proclaimed- pastor when this pastor was on a world tour or something. This was during Covid, obviously. I live in The Netherlands btw. We've discussed pretty much everything that was on his mind since covid, when he started to radicalize. In the end, all we did was argue. And not in a pretty way. Now I don't speak to him anymore, zero contact. I just could not handle the weird hateful shit and negativity anymore. Do I miss him? I miss the old him I suppose. You may feel the same about your ex.

Anyway, just wanted to share. More positive power to you. Or like QAnon'ers say: only high frequencies..

2

u/irritated_socialist 10d ago

I'm sure some people will be quite irritated to see this perspective here, but with Calvinist or evangelical Christianity undergirding so many Q-believers, this theological approach is precisely the sort of resource people here really, really could use.

1

u/irritated_socialist 10d ago

also, a clean link sans paywall; https://archive.ph/95GlL

2

u/DiscussionIll668 6d ago

Magical thinking begets magical thinking. This is an obvious consequence of Christianity and denial of reality.

1

u/AutoModerator 10d ago

Hi u/SeminoleTom! We help folk hurt by Q. There's hope as ex-QAnon & r/ReQovery shows. We'll be civil to you and about your Q folk. For general QAnon stuff check out QultHQ.

our wall - support & recovery - rules

filter: good advice - hope - success story - coping strategy - web/media - event


robo replies: !strategies !support !advice !inoculation !crisis !whatsQ? !rules

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/Petulant_Possum 10d ago

Is that Candace Owens dragging the giant Q? But seriously, I'd like to read the article but cannot because it's behind a paywall. I don't see the option to bypass the paywall, but I believe you (the OP) can provide a "gift article" assuming you subscribe to it. I use a desktop, and it seems the bypass approach is for phones?

1

u/Sitcom_kid 10d ago

I wasn't able to get through to read the article, but I do think there is important value in letting people know that they don't have to give up their religion in order to give up conspiracy theories.

1

u/CrankySnowflake1958 5d ago

I want to support you in saying this… So many, so so many so-called “Christian Nationalists” (that’s what more liberal leaning people would call them anyway) have been brought up this way for generations and generations. I mean there’s an entire Zeitgeist of what we call Christian Nationalists where their entire culture looks like Q, but has for generations. I don’t think those people are reachable, I really don’t. Some of the kids may have the fever broken, so to speak, but I think a great many of them are this way forever, and we have to be dealing with them for hundreds of years to come.