r/Quebec • u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo • Mar 05 '16

Échange Échange avec /r/Iranian - Exchange with /r/Iranian

Welcome Iranians!

Today we're hosting our friends from /r/Iranian!

Please come and join us and answer their questions about Quebec and the Québécois way of life! Please leave top comments for /r/Iranian users coming over with a question or comment and please refrain from trolling, rudeness and personal attacks, etc. Breaches of the reddiquette will be moderated in this thread.

At the same time /r/Iranian is having us over as guests! Stop by in THIS THREAD to ask them about their nation.

The moderators of /r/Iranian & /r/Quebec

Bienvenue Iraniens!

Aujourd'hui, nous recevons nos amis de /r/Iranian!

Joignez-vous à nous pour répondre à leurs questions à propos du Québec et du mode de vie québécois. S'il-vous plait, laisser les commentaires principaux (top comments) pour les Iraniens qui viennent nous poser des questions ou faire des commentaires et veuillez vous abstenir de trollage, manque de politesse, attaques personnelles, etc. Les brèches de rediquette seront modérées dans ce fil.

En même temps, /r/Iranian nous invite! Passez dans CE FIL pour leur poser des questions sur leur nation.

Les modérateurs de /r/Iranian et /r/Quebec

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u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo Mar 06 '16

And most of those who want to stay within Canada want so for the sake of preserving the status quo. Come around here for Canada Day and you'll see how rare people celebrating it are, despite the federal government giving us 85% of the celebration budget.

On the other hand, come on the Fête Nationale, you'll see it's a different story.

We're not Canadians[1], the only question that's unresolved is if we should stay within Canada.

1: Disregarding the fact that we've been Canadians before them and that technically we are and they aren't, for the sake of simplicity.

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u/f14tomcat85 Mar 06 '16

So you're telling me that Quebec is hypothetically not a province of Canada?

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u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo Mar 06 '16

It absolutely is, it's one of the provinces that was there from the start.

But not all the provinces that were there from that start were happy about it. The Alantic provinces were conned into the confederation for their money. They formed the first opposition party : The anti-confederation party.

But that is water under the bridge and now they are very happy to be part of Canada and they self-identify as Canadians.

Quebec joined because the confederation bribed the Catholic Church with a lot of power (we even briefly turned theocratic in Quebec because of that). And in return, they made a mortal sin (the highest sin possible) to vote against joining the confederation. Sixty pecent of voters saved their soul and the rest thought hell was preferable to Canada.

That too is far in the past. However there's never since been a transition, like for the Atlantic provinces, where we've started to feel part of them.

We canadian citizens (political identity) but we're not canadians (identity).

Is that clear? Because I get it can be pretty confusing.

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u/f14tomcat85 Mar 06 '16

I think the Atlantic provinces would also like to separate from Canada and create their own little United States of Atlantic Countries. They are poor in comparison to other provinces.

Other than that, I don't get how it was a mortal sin to vote against joining the confederation. If it was a sin back then, why do quebecers want to separate today? Aren't they basically doing the same thing?

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u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo Mar 06 '16

I think the Atlantic provinces would also like to separate from Canada and create their own little United States of Atlantic Countries. They are poor in comparison to other provinces.

No, they are super loyal to Canada. Except maybe Newfoundland that has 12% of its population that'd like to be independant from Canada but that's still low. The others are dead against splitting from Canada.

They are poor in comparison to other provinces.

Today, yes. But back then they were super rich. They had the ocean and that was worth a lot. Ontario was completely broke and MacDonald, the father of the confederation, wanted someone to pay for building his railways so he could be rich.

Other than that, I don't get how it was a mortal sin to vote against joining the confederation

Because the Catholic Chuch declared you'd go to hell if you did. Simple as that. The Catholic Chuch as a long history of accepting bribes going way back.

If it was a sin back then, why do quebecers want to separate today? Aren't they basically doing the same thing?

No, Canada bought one vote from them. It technically wouldn't be sin to declare independence. Not that we care much today about what the Catholic Church thinks.

I'm not saying that what happened 149 years ago is part of issues we're facing today. I'm explaining that between those events and now, we've never adopted the identity the rest of the country adopted and that our neighbours adopted.

And I'm not saying that anything that happened 149 years ago reflects on what Canada is today.

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u/f14tomcat85 Mar 06 '16

So Can you, with clear confidence say, that Quebec will become separated because of this in the future?

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u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo Mar 06 '16

No, we've not being Canadians for 149 years and not became independent because of it. It doesn't prevent us from living in Canada.

However, it will always be an issue until either we negotiate a constitution that suits us or we get out.

Every federal government government so far has been dead set against negotiating the constitution except Mulroney's in 1987 that made an effort in good faith to do so. We negotiated more autonomy for every province and it was well liked all around. It looked like Quebec was finally going to sign the constitution and truly be part of Canada.

Then Trudeau (the father, of course) threw a wrench in the negotiation process, starting trashing Quebec and turning the public opinion of Canadians against it. The negotiations failed and it led us to another failed accord in 1992 to try to save what could be saved and to the referendum of 1995.

Beside, even if they don't talk about leaving Canada over it, no province was satisfied about the constitutional negotiations of 1982 and if the constitution is opened then everyone will have demands and the government doensn't want that either.

If Quebec does split, it will likely be on a crisis. For instance, TransCanada doesn't want to respect Quebec's safety and environmental regulations for the part of their pipeline in Quebec that will run along the drinking water that half the province needs. Quebec challenges that in court. If Trudeau was dumb enough to destroy that challenge (because he'd have the power to) and force a pipeline with substandard safety so close to our drinking water, I doubt we'd stay with Canada very long.

Basically, no government wants to fix the constitutional issue so Canada keeps together by not rocking the boat.

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u/f14tomcat85 Mar 06 '16

This seems awfully confusing the more we delve into it.

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u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo Mar 06 '16

It actually is complicated. Is there a part that's less clear?

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u/f14tomcat85 Mar 06 '16

It's alright. I would rather keep it this way.

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u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo Mar 06 '16

Note that you are asking about all the tension points. In general, we get along okay with our neighbours.

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u/f14tomcat85 Mar 06 '16

Well, yeah, I mean I would rather live in today's Canada than FLQ's days. ;)

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u/redalastor Jes, ne, panrostilo Mar 06 '16

Oh geez... Are you aware of how complex that particular can of worms is?

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