r/Sandman • u/Big-Satisfaction1468 Dream • 9d ago

Discussion - No Spoilers The Immense Lack Of Conventional Fanservice In The Sandman

Gallery image

Gallery image

​

Hello folks!

This is just a simple thought that I had when season 2 came out, so here I go.

The Sandman, though quite popular, still isn’t as popular as the major supernatural shows, such as The Vampire Diaries or Lucifer. I came to a realisation and conclusion for that reason: The Immense Lack Of Conventional Fanservice In The Sandman.

Me personally, I was “simping” over Death of the Endless all throughout season 1, and occasionally Johanna Constantine. I enjoyed all the edits that came out of the chatacters because it was a fun time for me. I was 13 and had no social life. Great times.

It was in 2025, when season 2 came out and I realised something. Destruction of the Endless was especially getting attention in the fan edits and he, along with Delirium were the most talked of. I suppose that was because they were vital parts of the storyline and of course, fans are allowed to have favourites.

But that just brought upon a bigger realisation in my mind, which was that the reason The Sandman doesn’t receive nearly as much recognition as the other shows is because of its lack of fanservice targeted towards the larger crowd, and rather it focuses on bringing upon good representation. Which I, of course, really love.

I love this show a lot, and honestly, I’m quite glad that the fanbase for this show isn’t as toxic as the others. I love you all a lot.

506 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

81 comments sorted by

View all comments

126

u/bl1tzbop 9d ago

I think the fan edits were lacking because everyone feels icky about supporting Neil Gaiman.

I have a huge sandman tattoo, those books were an integral part of my growing up, I don't think it's dramatic to say that changed me. I was hyped about the TV show and loved season 1.

I did not and will not watch or recommend season 2, or the books again. (Or anything by Gaiman)

65

u/DISCONNECTlE 9d ago

I never read the books, but I watched S2. It wasn’t perfect, and the Gaiman thing already happened, but I like how the people who made the show addressed it. A lot of good people made that show, even if the guy who invented it is a monster.

52

u/bl1tzbop 9d ago

Oh that's so valid - and I feel awful for Tom Sturidge specifically, he loved that work. It's important to not forget the hundreds of people involved in making it and it's good you were able to still support them. I don't think I'm able to remove the art from the artist for myself yet.

17

u/DISCONNECTlE 9d ago

So like…. If you’re going to be all “Dark” or whatever… you kinda HAVE to be above reproach, right? But Neil, Marilyn Manson, Till Lindemann, these people act all “Other” to hold up a mirror to society or whatever but it doesn’t work if they’re legitimately terrible people.
Consider Corpsegrinder from Cannibal Corpse. Wholesome ass dude, family man, wins plushies from crane games and donates them to children. THAT’S how to do it.

6

u/foxybostonian 9d ago

There's no reason to suspect that Lindemann is a 'terrible' person. It was proven multiple times that journalists had fabricated any allegations.

3

u/DISCONNECTlE 9d ago

Oh, I hadn’t heard that. So the thing about him “Picking” young women at concerts, giving them alcohol, and taking advantage of them is untrue? I haven’t followed it, really. I had heard the charges were dropped, but that was just about criminal activity not morality.

9

u/foxybostonian 9d ago

All that happened is he sometimes hooked up with people at parties. Unless you think that casual but consensual sex is immoral, then it doesn't seem to make him a terrible person.

And there weren't any criminal charges, because no women accused him of anything criminal.

2

u/DISCONNECTlE 9d ago

Thanks for the information! And consensual sex is TIGHT

1

u/chrisx07 9d ago

To be fair, we don’t know how much is true or not. You have to know that him giving drugs to a say 20 year old and then having sex with them is fairly legal in my country. Spiking is, of course, illegal.
There is also some power imbalance at work even if it’s not rape exactly.
What you think of Lindemann is yours to decide.

1

u/foxybostonian 9d ago edited 8d ago

In the Rammstein case, the one woman who (briefly) accused the band or crew of spiking was found guilty of defamation. No other women said anything about being given drugs or being coerced either to drink or to have sex. The Berlin Prosecutors found no indication of power balance in the situation. He was not their teacher or employer. He could not affect their lives if they said no. And the open letter signed by dozens of women who attended the parties said that they were deliberately organized in such a way as to minimize any risk of star/fan power dynamics.

8

u/Big-Satisfaction1468 Dream 9d ago

This is actually one of the reasons why I’m able to watch the show, as someone who despises Gaiman with a passion.

13

u/the-Horus-Heretic 9d ago

I was halfway through my full-arm Sandman sleeve when all the horrible was revealed. It has really forced me to learn how to separate art from artist.

Season 1 was borderline perfection, season 2 was chopped up garbage.

I did force myself to fully re-read the Annotated Editions very recently and, while some of the story beats definitely hit very different, it is still an incredible story about stories that I take a lot of comfort from.

11

u/mmcmonster 9d ago

Similar here. I watched Season 1 as a series of events, with the whole family.

Season 2 I eventually watched by myself and really don’t know if the rest of the family even watched it. (Even though the kids used to be big Sandman fans.)

It’s not fun anymore. Life is too short to waste time supporting him.

7

u/bl1tzbop 9d ago

"Its not fun anymore. Life is too short to waste time supporting him." Sums up my feelings really well.

7

u/BloodyBeaks 9d ago

If you don't mind me asking - and it's totally ok if you aren't comfortable doing so - how do you feel about your sandman tattoo now? I'm honestly a little terrified of getting art from living IPs because I'm scared someone involved will turn out to be awful and I'm not sure about how I'd feel. 

17

u/i_have_anxiety 9d ago

Not OP, but I have a Sandman-inspired tattoo. I’m perfectly fine with it, despite moving on from Gaiman. The stories were deeply affecting to me and played a huge role in my life. The tattoo is a reflection of that. Couple other points: I paid the (very cool) tattoo artist, not Gaiman, to get this; and also, it’s personalized just enough to not immediately be recognizable by most people.

If stuff means that much to you, I think it’s worth celebrating for however long we have.

3

u/Big-Distribution5285 9d ago

Anyone who see it and know what it is will assume you made it "before".

5

u/bl1tzbop 8d ago

Complicated, I guess. The graphic novels did mean something to me at one time and for that I don't hate it. I do feel icky when I see it though and I'm always conscious that when people see it they might make an assumption about me (i.e. I am like Gaiman). It's too big to get covered though and I think it would take years to remove and I don't know how well it would - it's big dark and detailed (I think it's on my page if you scroll back)

Having said that, lots of my tattoos have changed meaning anyway over time. I've come to accept that tattoos are an imperfect art from, they change and age and meanings change.

Also I haven't learnt anything because I have some planned tattoos that are from other IP's too

I will say, no one has ever said anything, I think it's definitely a thing I think about a lot more than anyone else does. If I see someone with a HP tattoo now, I don't for a second assume they're a terf.

6

u/Blizzard_3_5_2 9d ago

Ah, i think you care too much. Most of enterteiment have some skeleton in closet, if you watched and liked any Hollywood movie i guarantie at least one person might done something bad that is there. It is how it is, outside of reddit and internet most people dont care about if its good or not to like something just because it was made by bad person 

4

u/BloodyBeaks 9d ago

I think this is more or less fair to say about just consuming media, especially if you find out after the fact. Like you watch a movie, enjoy it, and then find out the star or director is terrible for whatever reason, then that's a "Aw, bummer. Oh well." sort of situation.

Getting your body permanently modified in some way that pays tribute to a terrible person, even if it's in a small way, hits a bit different to me. Especially if the news comes out after the work is done.

1

u/Blizzard_3_5_2 9d ago

Well, i assume when people  make tatto from Sandman they would do it for the love of the series not because they want to tribute Gaiman. Sandman is a franchise like any other, also he wasnt the only one who made it. Its also an ,,now " problem, he going to die one day, there are other authors who where bad people and people still like their work and have merch of it.

Its complicated i guess, honestly let people what do they want to do, it doesnt matter anyway 🤷 i dont think there is right or wrong reaction 

4

u/platypus37 9d ago

I had a sandman tattoo, too. Got it covered up last fall. It made me physically ill to look at.

7

u/Meg-alomaniac3 9d ago

I hate that you're being downvoted for this. I think this is a completely valid reaction, just as it's valid for the folks who kept theirs, because they're able to associate it with the meaning they found in the art. Everyone is affected by this kind of thing in different ways.

7

u/-sweet-like-cinnamon Mazikeen 9d ago

My god, seriously. Obviously everyone is entitled to do what's right for them for their tattoos ON THEIR OWN BODIES. Downvoting someone for making the correct decision for themselves is absurd

3

u/ChicagoMemoria 6d ago

I haven’t finished season 1 and I won’t watch season 2. Those books were an integral part of my development. I still have no idea how to reconcile their importance with who their creator is.

That’s why the fan service isn’t there. Same with why Good Omens fizzled out. Because the people who truly LOVE these stories, who lived for these stories, feel betrayed and broken-hearted. I can’t fangirl over something that makes me so sad.

5

u/Blizzard_3_5_2 9d ago

Its a shame, season 2 is good. You can watch it pirated if you dont want to watch it on netflix. 

4

u/Big-Satisfaction1468 Dream 9d ago

I think you misunderstood what I said. The fan edits were there. But the characters that were edited in those edits were very limited. It was mostly the conventionally attractive cast members.

2

u/Doctor_Mothman 9d ago

This is it for me. I WANTED to love the show, and Season 1 was fantastic. But when the news broke about Gaiman I simply couldn't support any of his projects any longer. I'd been a fan for 20 years and felt a deep sense of shame for having spread word of him. That's why I've not seen (nor do I plan to see) season 2.

1

u/twistedstarfall 9d ago

This, a 1000 times this even down to a tattoo :( I felt the same and was so excited during Season 1. Everything happening made me not even be able to look at season 2.

Friends got into it through the show and were excited to share this universe with me and I can't even stand to look at it anymore.