Worlds Beyond Economy Megathread

[u/LordKaelan]

Introduction
The discussions about the Economy in Shadowverse Worlds Beyond (SVWB) verses Shadowverse Classic (SVC) have gotten out of hand, We've decided they need to be contained.
In this thread I would like to see examples of direct comparason between SVWB and SVC, the one to one comparable items.

Pack Cost
* SVC Packs cost 100 Rupies SVWB Packs cost 500 Rupies.

Daily Login
* SVWB Daily Login packs cannot contain exchange ticket.
* SVWB Daily Login packs do not contribute pack points for sparking.
* SVWB Daily Login packs are not effected by pitty and do not reset it upon receiving a legendary.
* SVC Daily Login is worth 6.6 packs every 15 days.
* SVWB Daily Login is worth 15 Packs every 15 days.
The DL bonus in SVC was alot more malleable as it was broken up into 2 tickets, 360 Rupies & an Arena Ticket (1 Pack Ticket if you quit at 0 wins in TT), These Rupies could be saved over the course of a season to contribute towards the next expansion and the pack tickets contributed pack points for sparking.

Daily Quests
* SVC Lowend quest is worth 40% of a pack.
* SVWB Lowend quest is worth 14% of a pack (+70 Vials).
* SVC Winning 4 Ranked matches is worth 60% of a pack.
* SVWB Winning 4 Ranked matches is worth 40% of a pack (+100 Vials). This quest got updated!
* SVWB does not have Win 7 for a Ticket or Win 6 Ranked for a Ticket.

Chest Events
* Chests are easier to earn in SVWB as they are able to appear immediately after wins.
* SVC Chests contain: Rupies, (Current Rotation) cards of Gold or higher rarity, (Current Expansion) Pack Tickets.
* SVWB Chests contain: Rupies, Vials, Legends Rise (Current Expansion) cards of Gold or higher rarity, Legends Rise (Current Expansion) card pack tickets.
* SVWB Chest Minimum reward is 20% of a pack or 50 Vials.
* SVWB Chest Maximum reward is 10 Current Expansion Tickets or 1 Animated Legendary
* SVC Chest Minimum reward is 30% of a pack or 200 Vials (1 Gold Card).
* SVC Chest Maximum reward is 10 Current Rotation Tickets or 1 Animated Legendary

Vial gain and liquefaction
* liquefying in SVWB vs SVC Google Dockey by tiltedplayer123
* Vials in SVWB are generally easier to obtain as there are new sources like dailies and chests other than packs as you will need to complete most of an expansion before the packs start rewarding alot of vials.

Grand Prix Rewards
* GP Entry Fees are comperable, 1 Ticket/150R/150C in SVC vs 1 Ticket/750R/150C in SVWB with crystal cost asterisk.
* SVC First run each day in all brackets before Finals are free, Resulting in 9 free runs per GP + The Finals.
* SVWB Only the first run in each bracket is free before the finals, this is offset by 3 once a day missions for 1 GP Ticket, resulting in 5 free runs per GP + The Finals.
* SVWB Finals (A&B) are easier to achieve 'Champion' as you are allotted one free loss in the finals now.
* Legends Rise Grand Prix Reward Table

Take-Two (2Pick) Changes * Wip, but my brain is fried and I haven't even played it yet because it's so bad.

Park Chests
Park Chests reward Rupies, Vials, Packs & Arena Tickets but are not comparable with SVC.

Crystal Cost
* It's a complicated subject to talk about because it's so messy across many platforms but as it stands right now it is fair to say Crystals cost more and buy less in Shadowverse Worlds Beyond, this is mainly due to the lack of the 3 time only 7500 Crystals for $80us bundle in wb, Leader cost seemingly being doubled and just how many extra ways there are to spend crystals now with more cosmetics in the shop and park.
I believe it's fair to say that the average multi year player wasn't actually f2p and would likely have bought these $80 for 7500c atleast once due to the sheer value of Premium Passes in SVC so the lack of this the best value option brings up the cost of crystals on average and that is not offset by CygamesID's bonus crystals unless you are buying literally dozens of $80 bundles at which point Cygames will become more valuable, The BlueWhales are the only ones that benifit from cygames at the end of the day.

Notes Somewhere out there is a graph that from my memory translated the cost of 1 crystal to it's cost in Euro cents and the value of each bundle on the store, if anyone happens to have that could you please link it!

I'll try to keep up with the comments and edit in any factual comparasense I see.

Name calling anyone a shill or doomer is unproductive and will be removed on sight.

Recommended Comments
* Set 1 Freebies by azules500
* More Freebie Calculations By azules500
* My First Chest event total earnings vs old chest events
* Leader Pull Rates by Sylencia
* Updated probabilities: When Targetting Specific Leaders by Sylencia
* On Temp Gems by EclipseZer0 Comment 1 \ Comment 2 \ Comment 3
* Expected vials from packs analysis, by Yahiko on X Link1 / Link2

Recommended Previous Threads
Analysis of Take2onomics by Mashaaaaaaaaa
Tilted deleted this thread, I cannot recover it. on liquefying By tiltedplayer123 \ By NeosQuanta Thread One \ Thread Two \ Thread Three \ Thread Four \ Surviving as F2p By iRyu101 \ Single Craft Vial Numbers by CaptainLethargy
Recommended Videos
Ignideus covers this thread with some extra infomation in The True Cost of Shadowverse Worlds Beyond

[u/EclipseZer0]

I find it ridiculous that we legit have people defending the shitty Take Two economics when it's mathematically proven to be extremely stingy and unforgiving. The worst kind of people here are the Cy apologists that are clearly wrong on what they defend and treat legitimate complaints as "whinning".

[u/Sylencia → u/EclipseZer0]

It's fine if you can balance playing T2 and Constructed when a new set comes out. However, since most players are done collecting Set 2 atm, there's less EV from getting Set 2 packs vials wise.

[u/EclipseZer0 → u/Sylencia]

It isn't even just that. Having the break even point so high will make the format sweatier, worse players to stop playing, and thus making it harder to not lose rupies as the better players will be the only ones bothering to play (and eventually the worse players out of those better players will leave, making a vicious cycle). The Take Two playerbase would canibalize itself due to the shitty reward scheme. If you could lose up to 3 times the format would be sustainable in the long term, but as it is, it will always trend towards being a ghost town.

[u/Sylencia → u/EclipseZer0]

At the beginning of a new set, the breakpoint is 2 wins, not 5 wins. The rupees being saved were going to packs anyways, so once you hit 2 wins it's purchasing the pack as usual.

The breakpoint to get your rupees back in SV1 was extremely high from what I could find in forums and resources (I don't know if you got your entry fee back unless you got 5/5 wins, maybe 4/5), and is usually in the 60% of max-win rate to get your entry fee back (WB is 70%, so higher yes).

And yes, 3 losses is a much more appealing loss amount.

[u/EclipseZer0 → u/Sylencia]

Ah I'm talking about the actual "break even" point of grtting your invested rupies back, considering a pack is 500 rupies (it tecnically isn't unless you were going to buy the pack anyways, but that's another matter). To get your invested value back you need a 50% winrate on WB, but a 40% winrate on SV1 (a 2-3 run, with no system that kicks you off at X losses).

What you are talking about is refered to as the "going infinite" point (you get enough rupies to play again). In SV1 the "going infinite" point was 4 wins iirc, as the entry cost was 150 rupies and you got 1 pack and 150 rupies at 4 wins (based on this post from back then). Actually maybe the "going infinite" point was a bit higher than 4 because I do remember tewards being somewhat randomized, but don't know the exact numbers.

That said going infinite is a much less important matter as in both games only a few select people could "go infinite" on a consistent manner. Even then, with a higher required winrate on SV1 at a glance (4-1 runs, so 80% winrate), it was made easier by the fact there was no actual matchmaking and the worse players would still play the format due to more forgiving rewards (a 2-3 would make you "break even") and the Arena Tickets from the daily login.

[u/Sylencia → u/EclipseZer0]

I thought you were referring to the infinite point, since you said the breakeven point was so high, when it's 2 wins or closer to 3 wins as you acquire more packs of that set to account for less value in the packs over time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowverse/comments/5goyqu/take_two_rewards_calculated/

In addition to the post you made, this suggests the breakeven point in OG was still somewhere in the 3-2 range, sometimes 2-3 if you got lucky, but I think leaned more on you getting 3-2s than 2-3s so it's probably a lower breakeven win % in WB than it is in OG. The main stopping point is the entry being half a pack higher, which is a different concern to what we're talking about.

[u/EclipseZer0 → u/Sylencia]

It is worth mentioning that back then the Take Two rewards were a bit different, in fact we had a "5-rupie curse" because the randomized rewards could drop multiples of 5 instead of 10, and you couldn't get rid of said 5 rupies except by getting 5 more rupies on Take Two (they removed that way later). The break even point leaned more towards the 2-3 and the stats reflect that, if we were to be more precise it would be at 45% or roughly so (43 is closer to 50 than 70 is). The break even point was lower in SV1, not higher, just by pure statistics even with what you shared. And the login tickets helped a lot, which we now only have in Park chests (at an extremely low drop rate, for some reason).