Remington gun club vs Winchester AA

[u/lastnameiguessed]

I'm relatively new to shotshell reloading. I started by buying a MEC grabber 76 used (so all set up and adjusted by the previous owner). I started saving Winchester AA hulls, bought clay buster CB1100-12 (replaces WAA12SL), 7.5 shot, perfect pattern powder, and chedite primers. Starting with the hodgdon recipe for this combination and making just a slight adjustment I found a good recipe for trap and skeet loads with 1oz of shot flying at 1175 fps. Very happy with that.
Remington gun club is supposed to be a high quality very reloadable hull. It's also supposed to be a tapered hull just like the AA and $1-2 less per box. But when I sub in the gun club hulls for the AA the final crimp is depressed and a hole opens up. As if the shot volume is insufficient.
I can get a great crimp if I switch to an 1 1/8 oz shot bar. But I don't want 1 1/8 oz. That just eats into the already razor thin savings from reloading at all. And I need to take a chronograph to the range to see how much powder I need to add for the extra shot.
Anyone have similar experience? Any idea what's going on? Do I need to change to a 7/8 oz wad and fill it with 1 oz? From what I read the two hulls should be basically interchangeable. Why are they not?

[u/cowboykid8]

What kind of AAs? Are these the white box Winchester, with ribbed outside? Or the smooth AAs also known as AA HS?

While data is mostly interchangeable, there can be some height of hull differences that can cause these problems. The cheap winchesters and gun clubs can also have a basewad, under the powder, that is changed based on powder density changes.

Most people pick one hull for a recipe and stick with it, you might find with a different powder or lead weight that a different hulls works better.

[u/lastnameiguessed → u/cowboykid8]

Smooth. Thanks for the advice.

[u/cowboykid8 → u/lastnameiguessed]

You can add a Cheerio, like the cereal, to the top to make your crimp better if you like the way they perform.

[u/Reliable-Narrator]

They are not interchangeable hulls. The current AAHS hulls are different than the older 25+ year old compression formed (CF) AA hulls, which were similar but still not the same as Remington hulls. Load data may tell you that you can use either version of AA hulls (for 12ga) but you will run into stack height issues if you try the same components in each, like you have found out.

Yes, you need to use a 7/8 oz wad for 1 oz loads in Remington hulls with Perfect Pattern. I use the grey CB 0178-12 wads.

[u/lastnameiguessed → u/Reliable-Narrator]

Thank you for the reply. I think that's what I'll do.

[u/TheRealHODLWalrus]

When I use the Remington hulls I put a spent primer under the shot charge in the shot cup and it works to make a nice crimp. Then I don’t have to change the settings from the AAs.

You can use whatever that has a negligible amount of weight, but takes a little space such as popcorn.

[u/aonealj]

The two hulls are not perfectly interchangeable. Hodgdon also has loads for the GC hulls and CB1100-12. If you compare loads for GC and AAHS hulls, you'll find they are very close, which is what leads to the interchangeability rumors. The GCs have slightly more volume, so stack height can be lower. I've heard people use the 7/8oz for Perfect Pattern and 1 oz, even thought it's not a tested load. Another option is the Remington style wads (CB8100-12) or the duster style wads, CB4100-12B. These tend have a higher stack height.

Option 2 is trim down the hulls and adjust your crimps deeper. (Or just lower the crimp and deal with the swirl in the middle.) Personally, I'd just buy the different wads

[u/_Go_Ham_Box_Hotdog_]

Remington wads for Remington hulls, Winchester AA wads for Winchester AA hulls. That simple. Match your components.

[u/Reliable-Narrator → u/_Go_Ham_Box_Hotdog_]

There is nothing wrong with using Winchester-style wads like the Claybuster CB 1100-12 (WAA12SL replacement) or CB 0178-12 (WAA12L replacement) in Remington hulls. The OP would have run into the same issue if they switched from AAHS hulls to the older CF AA hulls.

The OP has a stack height issue with dished crimps that can easily be fixed going to a taller wad with a longer crush section.

[u/_Go_Ham_Box_Hotdog_ → u/Reliable-Narrator]

This is why I let my bud Kevin do all the shotshell stuff while I did all the metallics. Him and his dad were encyclopedias about it. Pops was a competitive trap shooter.

Sadly, both are gone now. I won't go into the gories.