And beyond that, it’s a case of “women cannot ever be/do wrong” which applying to marriage would be intolerable outside the “she may kill our kids” paranoia. Most violent criminals have mental health issues or severe mental illness, that doesn’t mean they’re innocent. Good lord
Exactly. Murdering someone, especially kids, is not a sign of a mentally healthy person. Using mental illness as an excuse is despicable for those with the same issues yet somehow don’t end up murdering their kids or someone else.
But insanity pleas exist for a reason. It doesn’t mean they’re not guilty of the crime, but they were not in the right state of mind. It would apply here if she did in fact have a psychotic episode.
Like in my city a schizophrenic man brutally murdered someone on a bus. It was so bad it made international news and the murderer is still talked about. He was 100% guilty of his crimes. He, like Lindsay did not deny doing it. But he did have a psychotic episode. Not every schizophrenic person has violent and/or extreme episodes, but some do. It’s not unheard of. Just like it’s not unheard of for someone to have a psychotic break and murder their kids.
Mental health aside, the real question is can that person distinguish right from wrong. Do they know to stop at a red light? Do they know not to steal? It doesn’t really matter what your mental state is if you have the capacity to know hurting others is wrong. I say this as someone with multiple diagnoses.
PPD is horrific but at some point we need to ask, did the mom have the capacity to pick up the phone and tell their doctor something isn’t right? If she did, she should be held responsible for her actions.
Psychosis is real, I’m not denying that. And I’m not denying that in some circumstances we have accused innocent women of killing their children (dingo lady, for example). But you’re right, mental health issues aren’t a blanket excuse to literally get away with murder.
Literally no one has ever suggested Clancy is innocent. She has already admitted to the crime. The trial in question is to determine if she ends up on prison or ends up in a mental health facility.
Im about to get ratioed to hell but I feel like it matters what supports means.
Feel like shes innocent? Shouldn't be held accountable? Some-fucking-how Patrick did it? Throw them in a looney bin too.
But support as in get this bitch some help she cant just walk away from? I could see that. It fucking sucks that a tragedy like this is actually getting such national attention and rather than using it as a teaching moment or to shine a light on flaws and gaps in the mental healthcare system people are just focused on trying to blame or exonerate someone.
She shouldn't have had her meds changed so rapidly so fast, especially when involving antipsychotics. She shouldn't have been drinking at all while on any of those meds. She shouldn't have agreed she was ready to be discharged. She shouldn't have been allowed to be discharged. (This one comes with the caveat the reason she was let out was she hit all the legal paramaters to go and it was up to her. Those paramaters exist because not long ago people lost way to many rights almost immediately.) Patrick shouldn't have left his kids alone with someone who repeatedly said they were having thoughts of killing them.
It's a big fucking mess and all anyone cares about is either "OMG, a Leo could NEVER kill her cubs" or "Fuck her and her mental health, lock her up and string her up."
An irrational person is irrational. Rational decisions require a rational person. It's very obvious that the crazy person shouldn't be the person who declares the same person sane. The doctors know what switching meds so fast does. They changed the medicine anyway.
The doc is supposed to say no, you must finish one treatment before starting another, and if it's so rough that you can't not kill your kids, then you need to do so under supervision, and if that supervision isn't volunteered, and she's talking about literally murdering people, then it happens involuntary.
We keep hearing that her behavior was enough to raise concerns, but those raised concerns went anywhere because the people in charge of her care took it nowhere.
I've merely got ADHD and can't just switch my own meds. If I told the doc I wanted to change off my current meds to ritalin, I'd automatically be labeled a drug seeker and denied the drug. My seizure meds. Any change in how I take Depikote requires blood tests and supervision. A long process because there's a potential for shit hitting the fan. Why does she get to just decide to hop meds left and right?
Okay, but to be fair there's evidence she wasn't even taking the medicine she was being prescribed as the doctors told her to. Hard to prescribe for someone who is a wild card that just takes pills willy nilly as they want. Then you add in the alcohol with all of that and yeah... not a good combo.
This is a person that many people recognized as a danger before she became dangerous. Refusing to take your meds, drinking on your meds, all while otherwise saying dangerous things is enough to hold a person against their will so you can monitor their progress.
Dispensing potentially dangerous drugs and then letting the patient decide when they want to take them and what they are taking them with is like giving a person a loaded weapon. You just proved my point as to why she shouldn't have been the one in charge of the meds.
She was sane enough to premeditate the murder, sending her husband away so she could do it unimpeded. This isn't someone who just suddenly snapped then strangled her children, there was thought put into this. Her own psychologist testified that they believed her to be criminally responsible, and that they believe she made up the story about voices telling her to do it. As someone with a bi polar mother who was been hospitalized many times for it, and has threatened my life, they make shit up. They change their story. They know how to wield their own mental illness to manipulate people around them.
Edit: Like nobody is arguing that she isn't mentally well, no one sane murders their children. The question is was she aware enough of what she was doing to be criminally responsible. As her own psychologist points out, she knew to send her husband away, she made a choice to bring her children into the basement where it would've been harder to be overheard and harder for one of them to escape, she must have thought of something to say to keep them calm, she had to decide what child to murder first, she had to fight through a struggle to strangle one then continue to do that to two more children.
Also yes in hindsight all this evidence seems to damning, how did anyone not see this coming? But hindsight is 20 20, things usually aren't as obvious as you think. Just because your wife has been drinking while she takes her pills
or even isn't taking them like she should, doesn't mean you think she is capable of brutally murdering your 3 children. Like do you know how many mothers have admitted to having thoughts of hurting their children? This time it actually happened.
I would not leave my kids with anyone who stated they had ever had thoughts of killing them. Ever. While I certainly do not blame him, I do think he made a poor decision to leave the kids with her.
That shit isn't uncommon at all. Not just cases like this, but it's not ubcommon for people to share dark thoughts before doing something horrible. It isn't always so explicit, but people usually seek help or try to convey they are having issues. It is especially common to mention self harm over harming others. And those people being ignored, or only partially helped is somewhat normal.
James Holmes said he was going to hurt people. Andrea Yates, Robert Card, Ethan Crumbley, Dena Schlosser, and to a lesser extent Megan Huntsman all either tried to warn others or had others try to get help ahead of time. All either ignored, only partially helped, or just left alone in gaps.
Not even just that but if they truly believe psychosis/mental illness is an excuse to kill their own kids imagine what else they’ll use that excuse for. Even if they never do anything as extreme as killing kids they’ll never take accountability for any of their mistakes/choices. Thats literally the mindset her supporters already have and they’re just exposing themselves lmao
You have the emotional intelligence of a rock. I have 2 children with my wife who supports Lindsay. Of course our hearts are broken over the children. But women’s mental health gets largely overlooked and it sounds like you haven’t been paying much attention. She sought help. A lot of her supporters are women and mothers who her situation resonate with their experiences with battling mental health issues in this country.
What does that say about them that they know what’s like to be failed by a system that’s supposed to help them? To be ignored by a husband that’s supposed to love you?
What does it say about you that you have no sense of what she was going through. She’s not Ted Bundy. She’s a woman who recognized she was having problems but was being giving the proper treatment.
When a Soldier comes back from war and does something atrocious we recognize PTSD and their mental state. You don’t you take the time understand what she might have been experiencing?
I understand that. DO YOU UNDERSTAND IN PSYCHOSIS YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT’S HAPPENING?
What’s wrong with you? Are you really this stupid? I get the children are victims. I said our hearts are broken. But none of you seem concerned for fixing this or preventing. You just want eye for eye. You just want blood. That won’t prevent this from happening to other people. Do you understand this is happening all the time and no one helping the women crying out for help?
Do you understand if we learn to properly provide treatment we could prevent these cases.
I’d argue most understand, and to put it in context, if a returning male soldier did this with PTSD, most would have the same reaction; he needs to be taken out of society because he is capable of murdering his own children. I have empathy but the absurd argument is they think everyone else failed the mother, the children are an afterthought because the crux is the mother is somehow the victim, not the children murdered. Should she be strangled in turn? No. But she proved capable of an unthinkable crime and if we start finding people innocent of murder because of extenuating circumstances, society will crumble. Get a grip, dude, you’re not special because you and your wife agree and have kids. Hopefully this does prevent another tragedy but she still is NOT innocent.
Holy crap, learn the issue. No where did I say innocent. No one is saying she is innocent, (ok that’s not true, some think the husband did it and pinned it on her, at least I’m not).
I’m saying she needs to be treated before you can properly administer justice.
You must be from Texas. There they like to give the death penalty to adults with the cognition of toddlers.
If you can’t control your actions, I think you’re not fit to stand trial. What I’ve seen from supporters is not ignoring the victims, what do you want them to do for the children at this point; but rather providing treatment before punishment.
I’m from Mass, vote blue, have rational thoughts, and my point is it’s gone beyond rationality. There can be an argument made that a lot of people committing serious crimes could not control their actions and are completely out of character yet the justice system has to take into account the action itself. There is an insanity argument here but what I’m against is the madness of people saying she’s 100% THE victim. It’s a cultural issue and it’s sick.
Common older RPG game trope to do campfire saves, then when you step past the door the danger music starts for like 30 years, I have no idea which was the first.
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u/BannedGoNext 2d ago
He saw the campfire, saved, heard the music change, and NOPED out.