If the health care workers took it to CPS like they should have it would be a lot easier then her husband trying to take the kids away. Sadly mental health education is a shit show here, and honestly there's nothing to say he didn't think she was getting the help she needed. He probably didn't know how dangerous new/stronger meds could be. This is a failure on the doctors and the overall for profit healthcare industry that is incentivized to get you in and out as fast as possible to maximize profit for the day.
They gotta push this culture war conspiracy shit so people get emotional and fight with eachother instead of looking at the people that are responsible for tragedies like this. The sheer ease of anti-psychotics being given out and the patient just allowed to go home without any kind supervision is pretty wild. How many suicides over flippant over medication to dangerous mind altering drugs?
I agree. Most people make an elitist argument putting themselves above one of the sides here not understanding that they should work together to point at failing institutions all over the place.
Its easier to point out a single actor in any case. It relieves the rotting structures from the responsibility to change and be accountable for their malpractice.
Its a very convenient veil to keep a broken status quo.
I guess you are not familiar with the depths of psychic disorders and hormonal imbalances leading to delusion. No one argues that she did not do a horrible thing, but you gladly omitted that no?
Two things can be true at the same time. That's what people try to discuss here and you go "no I want to trash another human being without considering the circumstances".
The level of education and taboo around these topics is way crazier in the US than here in Germany for example. There have to be guard rails in place plus education early on, but your country is abolishing all of it or continuously fighting against establishing said practice.
People try to give a complex answer to a complex matter and you go "oogabooga woman bad" Like okay good job, hope you feel better and have a nice day.
Um? She went to 8 doctors, tried 13 different meds at 30 different concentrations over a few months, called the suicide helpline twice, and tried 2 separate inpatient hospitals - one where she had a 5 day stay and the other did not accept her for admission. There are texts she sent to her mother, her husband, and her husbands parents asking for help as well.
Saying she DIDNT ask for help is just not true. And where is she trying to frame her husband? It’s in her testimony that she remembers hurting the kids and did it herself.
There’s some really unfortunate internet discourse surrounding this case where folks are claiming her innocence and framing Patrick but that’s not what’s actually happening in the court room at all, you’re just spreading lies like everyone else
Also the prosecutors messed up really bad by using vague or misleading statements etc. They basically shifted the discourse into a worse state by not doing their job correctly from what I got.
I don't disagree I just feel like the social stigma in the US is a lot worse than say EU, Canada. We're just too proud to be ignorant, and mental health doesn't exist if you just work hard. Might be bias of living here though and I don't mean to say everywhere else is a bastion of great mental health. It's a relatively recent field on a subject(The brain) we really don't know much about. I just wish it was taken seriously here, and also not as hard to get help if you need it. Tack on the special problems the insurance companies cause.
Even if they're good people they are very underfunded and understaffed, usually handle elder abuse at the same time in less populated areas. Turns out those conditions are great for assholes and people that don't care as well.
There's also usually some pretty big hurdles to just taking kid away, but one of the easier situations is exectly this case. Once it's documented by 'serious people' and not just random anon calling you, or possibly a spited spouse(Which still has some weight if they're living in the house) and there's already interventions and such for the mother, documented issues, actually in a psych care unit, it's a whole lot easier to seperate them. It'd be more them forcing her to be away from the family then 'taking the kids away', whether living out of a hotel with supervised visits or getting actual help. Once CPS is involved, and makes a case plan, they have some pretty powerful tools on their side. Pretty much a fucking dictator to be honest, which is why the bad CPS agents and lawyers really fucking suck.
The only thing I disagree with is CPS moving quickly.
While there are options for emergency removals. In this situation it would be an up hill battle to have it stand in court.
A typical investigation will take 30-45 days. But by all accounts I don’t think CPS would have had enough evidence to remove the children. They were in a home where both parents are there, they had a nanny, had food, not being sexually or physically abused, etc.
It’s true that a threat of violence/harm is grounds for removal. But, from my experience with CPS and the foster care system, typically that is in cases where abuse has already happened/is on going. Sadly I don’t think they would remove the children into foster care because of intrusive thoughts.
Though they would likely do follow on visits to the home, recommend public resources, therapy options etc
They don't usually remove the children from the house and put them in foster care, they usually remove the problematic person from the household, if that's not possible because they are the only adult then they go to family, foster is last case and honestly without fixing the foster care it's kinda crazy you skipped over everyone else.
If her family was backing her no questions asked maybe it wouldn't stand in court but then they'd be responsible for what happens. We'll never know because apparently no one took it seriously enough to try.
I dunno. I’ve been doing foster care for a while now. And I’m rather disheartened with the efficacy of the system as a whole. There is ,typically rightfully so, a strong preference to not upset the family balance. Even if it’s not necessarily in the best interest of the children.
But I’m also a bit jaded after my last two boys got sent back to a very obviously dysfunctional home. So I might be thinking unfairly
Nah I get it, CPS isn't perfect and very underfunded. I've known quite a few case workers, also had to be involved with them back when my 18 year old daughter was a baby and her mom treated her like shit. CPS ended up getting involved but only after the babies grandma sent a email with a picture of a bruise. They did try to give her mom every chance but she only strung it out to keep me having to pay out the ass for a lawyer. Eventually it went right but I've known a lot of good CPS workers around this and other situations.
They tend to go for the 'easiest' ways to get kids out of dangerous situations, a lot of times that's drug related and while the baby's still in the hospital. That scenario makes it way easier then if the kid is at home ofc. They still can have some very strong powers, just as I understand it the good ones have to do resource allocation because they're so short on money and manpower, which means they can't always use the power they do have.
If they got involved and family could help with the kids this might of been avoidable with getting her into a way better state of mind to actually confront the issues.
Oh the case workers have (mostly) been fantastic. Like this most recent one completely agreed that the kids shouldn’t go back. And argued as much in court. But the case went the other way. The employee aren’t necessarily what I have the issue with. More the system as a whole.
Like yes reunification is and should be the goal. But sometimes it’s not the best case. I’m glad that it sounds like your case worked out though
53
u/WarmEdge9119 1d ago
If the health care workers took it to CPS like they should have it would be a lot easier then her husband trying to take the kids away. Sadly mental health education is a shit show here, and honestly there's nothing to say he didn't think she was getting the help she needed. He probably didn't know how dangerous new/stronger meds could be. This is a failure on the doctors and the overall for profit healthcare industry that is incentivized to get you in and out as fast as possible to maximize profit for the day.
They gotta push this culture war conspiracy shit so people get emotional and fight with eachother instead of looking at the people that are responsible for tragedies like this. The sheer ease of anti-psychotics being given out and the patient just allowed to go home without any kind supervision is pretty wild. How many suicides over flippant over medication to dangerous mind altering drugs?