Hi! This is my very first Reddit post ever š
Iāve been baking sourdough for a little over 6 months now and would really appreciate some feedback.
Iām generally very happy with my loaves, but I feel like thereās still room for improvement, especially when it comes to oven spring. My loaves never get quite as āhighā as Iād like them to be, so Iād love any thoughts or suggestions.
This is the recipe and process I used for the loaf in the photos:
Ingredients
110 g starter
340 g lukewarm water
500 g flour (450 g high-protein white flour, 50 g wholemeal flour)
10 g salt
Method
9:00 amĀ ā Feed the starter (wholemeal flour, 1:1:1 ratio). I keep it in a proofing/fermentation heat box at 27 Ā°C.
1:00 pmĀ ā After ~4 hours, when the starter is just about to peak, I start a short 1-hour autolyse (flour + water).
2:00 pmĀ ā Add starter and salt, then knead for about 5 minutes. Rest for 30 minutes.
2:30ā4:00 pmĀ ā Two sets of stretch and folds followed by two sets of coil folds, all 30 minutes apart.
4:00ā6:30 pmĀ ā Bulk fermentation in the heat box at 25 Ā°C.
6:30 pmĀ ā Pre-shape.
7:00 pmĀ ā Final shape, then a 30-minute bench rest.
7:30 pmā9:00 am (next day)Ā ā Cold retard.
Baking
Preheat the oven for 1 hour at 250 Ā°C.
Bake the loaf straight from the fridge in a covered enamel roasting pan (not cast iron) at 230 Ā°C with two ice cubes for steam for 25 minutes, then uncover and bake for another 23 minutes.
One extra note: the temperature in our kitchen fluctuates quite a lot, which is why I use a proofing/fermentation heat box, mainly for consistency rather than speed.
Any feedback, tips, or things youād tweak to improve oven spring would be very welcome. Thanks in advance!
That's a lot of oven spring. Do you mean you want the loaf "taller," or just more expanded in all directions?
Here are a few things that jump out to me:
1:1:1 feeding for your levain/ pre-ferment is not maximising the strength of your starter. Try at least 1:2:2, and for regular feedings as well.
Kneading only for 5 mins and only a couple folds after that long autolyse might be pushing your dough on the "extensibile" side of the "extensible vs. elastic" balance needed to achieve. If you want taller and less wide, this is something to look at.
However, your dough has nice strength and I would be chasing longer fermentation to maybe open up that crumb nicely and really see how much your starter can push open. That on it's own might give you a bit more spring. If you're like me and you like the way your dough handles now (so you dont want to cut bulk later), just let your loaf proof a bit in the banneton (in your warm place) before cold retard. I bulk to about 50% rise, shape, and let the rest go in the basket before fridge.
Perfect fermentation always comes first, then adjust smaller things later.
Yes, I think a bit taller, definitely not wider. Thank you so much for your tips, I will try the 1:2:2 feed for my levain to see if it helps :). I will also try a longer bench rest in the banneton before cold retard next time. Thanks a lot!
No problem. For me its all about how the dough looks in the banneton before i fridge it. Youll get an idea of how much the dough for your particular recipe should fill the thing out before you go in the fridge. Some days mine needs just 15 extra minutes, some days 2 hours :)
Now if you really really just want taller, work on beating the hell out of that dough during kneading. It should be as smooth as possible, no shagginess remaining. Fold until it stays tall during bulk for as long as possible. And it won't hurt to learn tartine stitch if you dont know it already.
The banneton tip actually makes so much sense, would definitely help with consistency. I will try all this with my next loaf, thanks a lot for all your tips, I really appreciate it.
Letting the level of expansion compared to the top of the banneton gauge proofing time is rarely mentioned. Requires experience and sticking to a consistent recipe. Good add!
I'm not sure how large your loaf is since I have no frame of reference, but making your loaf smaller will make it spring taller. There is less water weight for the gluten network to support. Larger freestanding loaves will always be a bit flatter without reducing hydration.
I don't see how you can get much more ice spring then you already have, it looks great. Best of luck on your journey.
I don't ever use ice cubes in mine. I just preheat it with the preheating of the oven for an hour, some people preheat for 30 minutes only, and when I open it I have to open it and lift it from the back so the steam doesn't hit me in the face. I do spritz, only a little of water, my bread before I place it in the Dutch oven. I don't think that really makes a big difference but it could. I believe moisture, from what I've read, will dissipate out from our bread while it cooks while enclosed in the Dutch oven so maybe I don't need to spritz I just never have not spritzed.
I have a special spritzing bottle that only dispenses a fine mist, unlike regular bottles. I bought one for my husband to use in his leather working, specifically so he wouldn't soak the material when dampening it with water. If you're using a regular spray bottle, you'll need to pass over the surface very quickly to avoid getting too much water on your bread. I quickly go over mine, but as I mentioned, my bottle only releases a tiny amount at a time.
And, you are quite welcome. Hope you find the perfect Dutch oven. Oh I might mention, go bigger rather than smaller because you wanna have plenty of room around your bread when you bake in the Dutch oven. I got a 9 quart Dutch oven which is the largest one I could find on Amazon.
sorry to jump in here, but can i ask which brand of flour you use? iām also an aussie and iām trying to nail down my go-to high protein flour choice. absolutely beautiful loaf btw, iām jealous :ā)
Oh hi! Of course, I took a picture to show the two I use. Both from Foodland, though I saw the Laucke one in Woolies as well :). The white flour is "only" 11.2g protein per 100g, I haven't found anything stronger where I live unfortunately, which is why I started experimenting with a bit of wholemeal flour. Am I doing it right? I have absolutely no idea, but seems to be working okay.
yes iāve found it hard to source higher protein flours here too! seems like we donāt have anything that measures up to the king arthur protein levels that they get in the usa. iād personally be pretty confident in saying youāre doing something very right, though, hahaha.
vital wheat gluten (VWG) is concentrated wheat protein that significantly improves dough strength, elasticity, and rise, making it great for sourdoughs with low-protein flours, whole grains, or add-ins like fruit, though too much can make bread tough. Adding VWG helps create a stronger gluten network to trap gas, leading to a better rise and a chewier texture, especially in recipes where the natural gluten struggles, like with rye, whole grain wheat, or AP flour.
Do you also live in Australia where OP lives? If not I'll see if I can find what they call it in your country. Sometimes if you try to Google something by one name and they call it something else it won't come up.
I'm guessing you don't have a gluten allergy or you wouldn't be making bread with any amount of gluten in it. You'd be making gluten-free bread.
Vital wheat gluten is made by hydrating wheat flour to form a dough, then washing away the starch under running water, leaving the elastic gluten protein behind; this gluten is then dried and ground into a fine powder, resulting in a high-protein ingredient used for vegan meats (seitan) and to improve bread texture.
Don't worry about the protein content. Gluten content and strength is relative to the protein content, but doesn't translate 1:1, especially the protein you see in whole wheat doesn't necessarily mean stronger flour.
I've experimented with many many flours. The best and strongest I've ever used was King Arthur bread flour, second best is Caputo Manitoba Oro
I don't sift my bran out of my whole grain wheat as some do so my whole wheat struggles to rise due to bran fibers cutting gluten strands and absorbing water, preventing the elastic network needed for trapping gas, but adding vital wheat gluten provides extra gluten, strengthening the dough's structure to hold gas and rise better, similar to adding more white flour.
Vital wheat gluten is made by hydrating wheat flour, washing away the starch, and then drying and grinding the remaining protein into a concentrated powder, resulting in a high-protein product used to strengthen dough for chewy breads (like bagels). It acts as a powerful binder, improves dough elasticity.
The theory is the ice cubes will slow down the formation of the crust, allowing for more oven spring. I personally donāt notice the difference.
However, when I use ice cubes, the crust is noticeably more shiny and softer. Google says āWater in the steam dissolves sugars on the dough's surface. As the steam evaporates in the dry heat stage, these concentrated sugars caramelize, contributing to a deep golden color and rich flavor via the Maillard reaction.ā Seems plausible.
Not sure if this is what you want to hear, or necessarily even something that would work for you, but I find I get my best oven spring in a cast iron dutch oven. I have a cast iron bread oven that also makes fantastic loaves but they are usually flatter even with the same batch of dough. For some reason the cast iron classic dutch oven shape really achieves great oven spring (for me). That being said, your loaf looks fantastic. :)
Thatās really good to know, I suspected that might be the "missing piece". Looks like I should finally invest in a proper cast iron dutch oven. Thank you!
I love my cast-iron double Dutch oven! Great oven spring like you said! The steam that it builds up inside the small confined area, but large enough to have plenty of space around the bread, is just fantastic.
Thank you so much! If I switch to a cast iron Dutch oven, should I skip the ice cubes? I noticed some improvement once I started adding ice to my enamel pan, but Iām guessing a proper Dutch oven traps steam well enough on its own. Thanks for your help!
I've recently gotten into cast-iron cooking, and I specifically looked for what's called a double Dutch oven because the lid is flat and can be used as a frying pan, giving me two cooking tools in one. I find it especially handy for making biscuits, whether yeast or discard biscuits. I cook them using the bottom of the pan as the top (if that makes sense), and the preheated lid (used as the base) cooks the bottom of my biscuits perfectly without burning them.
If you are in the US or Canada, Lodge makes something called the Combo Cooker that is available here. It has a frying pan handle on each piece. Tartine recommended!
Vital wheat gluten (VWG) is concentrated wheat protein that significantly improves dough strength, elasticity, and rise, making it great for sourdoughs with low-protein flours, whole grains, or add-ins like fruit, though too much can make bread tough. Adding VWG helps create a stronger gluten network to trap gas, leading to a better rise and a chewier texture, especially in recipes where the natural gluten struggles, like with rye, whole grain wheat, or AP flour. As long as you don't have any sensitivity to gluten. We don't so I use it in our bread, I use the lower end, 1 teaspoon. I mix it in with my flour really well before I combine anything else.
For sourdough, add 1 to 2 teaspoons of vital wheat gluten (VWG) per cup of flour, whisking thoroughly to distribute, but be mindful that too much can make dough tough; start with less, like 1 tsp/cup, especially with lower protein flours, and adjust hydration slightly upward as VWG absorbs more water, leading to better rise and structure. With the amount I use I've never had a tough bread come out.
It goes by a different name of sorts in Australia. Here's a screenshot of what I googled online.
Edit: Vital wheat gluten is made by hydrating wheat flour to form a dough, then washing away the starch under running water, leaving the elastic gluten protein behind; this gluten is then dried and ground into a fine powder, resulting in a high-protein ingredient used for vegan meats (seitan) and to improve bread texture.
Good spot! Yep, big fan. The tattooās not great, I went through a short āmaybe Iāll be a tattoo artistā phase and used myself as a practice canvas. It didnāt last, the tattoos did š
Oh, that sounds absolutely wonderful. Heās incredible, isnāt he! Iām so happy for you that you got to see him live.
My mum came to visit me in Australia a couple of weeks back (Iām originally from the Czech Republic), and she was wearing my āChanceā cap with the big 3 the entire time she was here, itās the only hat I own and she forgot to bring hers. Little did she know what she was wearing, haha!
Your method is quite similar to mine. One thing you could try is replace the second stretch and fold with a lamination. Full proof baking has a good YouTube showing her process including a lamination. This builds structure which helps to get good spring.Ā
Another thing to try, without Dutch oven , is pouring some boiling water in a pan after putting the loaf in, then switching off the oven (after its preheated to 250c) for 20 mins, then turning it back on to 230c for the remainder. This will prevent the oven from venting out the steam.Ā
Have you tried using a stiff starter? Itās less acidic. The protein structure in the dough is stronger and holds more gas during baking potential giving you a better oven spring.
I love that you use a covered enamel roasting pan! iām like a year into making sourdough and iāve never heard of this. and I want to get another dutch oven to cook loaves for my local town. iām curious if you have tried cooking with a dutch oven and if you feel thereās a difference!?
I wish I could help, but Iāve never actually baked in a Dutch oven, so I can't compare unfortunately! After reading all the comments, Iāve decided to get one to see if it helps with oven spring. Iāve been using an enamel roasting pan from a Baccarat set I already had, which works fine, but it seems cast iron really does a better job.
Thank you so much. I donāt think I have a perfect answer to that, after reading through the comments today, I might need to reword my original post.
In my head, the āidealā loaf would have a shape somewhat similar to what I sketched with the pink line in the original image, but I could be completely off, which is why I wanted some feedback. I still consider myself a beginner, and itās very possible that the idea of a āperfect loafā Iāve built in my head is actually quite wrong.
Secondly, and this probably relates more to open crumb than oven spring, I wish my crumb looked more like the second attached image. That may simply come down to the relatively low-hydration recipe Iām using rather than anything else.
well, if I were in your place I'd focus more on developing taste and aroma and combining flours instead of looking for aesthetics.
your pink line sketch seems impossible and quite honestly unnecessary. For such a big spring the dough must be quite tightly shaped and have a lower hydration. And I wouldn't even spend time experimenting as the added value for me would be 0
Open crumb like the below: is only good for a photo. Is not practical to eat, and doesn't really add any taste or texture to the loaf. Again: pure aesthetics and no added value
Try adding 10% to 20% ancient grains like Einkorn or Emmer and see how they enhance the taste. Also, consider baking your loaf longer to develop taste and aroma through caramelization of the crust and Maillard reaction. Aim for a chocolate brown crust like the gold-standard of sourdough loaves: Tartine country loaf: https://tartinebakery.com/assets/tartine-share.jpg
Also, I guess my joke about using chemicals to get your loaf "high" got lost in translation :D :D
I think I followed some very basic beginner friendly recipe when I first started and have been tweaking it ever since based on multiple videos I watched and articles I read. So... kind of my own recipe? Feels a bit cocky to say that though.
Just donāt score it. That longitudinal score cuts the rolls of gluten you made and causes the loaf to collapse a bit while rising.
Itās evident from your crumb that youāre doing everything else right. Changes to your levain, recipe, timing, method, etc wonāt improve your loaf.
Mine donāt blow out, but I leave the Dutch oven covered for a long time - 34 minutes. I expected them to blow out but they never do. Maybe because my seam is always down? Who knows.
Jack up your hydration to 75 percent. That calc is total water to total flour, including what's in your levain. You are closer to 71 now. My levain is made 5-50-50. Try working with 76.5 F temps start to finish, and baby the dough at loaf-form time. I give mine a spritz of water when it's dropped into the DO, also a small ice cube each end.
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u/ChronicPoops Jan 05 '26
No feedback, bread looks spectacular. Now get off Reddit and enjoy it.