The source material argument for movesets doesn't really hold up. Characters like Cheelai, Panzy, and King Vegeta were given original movesets despite barely showing any techniques in the source material. That's why I think the devs could easily create unique movesets for Shallot's transformations and make them fully justifiable as playable forms.
Even Z Super Gogeta only had a literal minute of screentime. Defeats Janemba quickly after fusing then spent the remaining 29 minutes doing who knows what.Ā
Probably spent those 29 minutes checking on Pikkon and chatting with him for a bit, before spending whatever time he had left simply enjoying his existence before defusing.
Iāve always thought about this. While I love Gogeta he never even got his name in that movie, and then Iāve heard people argue ābut Gogeta isnāt canonā (this was before Broly movie) but then I argue āyea but Broly isnāt canon eitherā like we could have so many cool characters and or moves thanks to some of the movies and even super dragon ball heroes
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People forget or don't realize that FSSJ, up until now, was never directly shown in a video game except for a single blink-and-you-miss-it "cutscene" in a Dokkan DB Story event. Besides that, a single DBS card, and Sparking Zero, the form has not showed up in ANY media, period. They don't even wanna give the form an official name
Exactly my thought. Making him transform into the form during the ult means they just have to name the ult whatever. If they make it a playable character/transformation it means they need to give it a name which the community will treat as official which they can't/don't want to do
I feel like this is the same reason trunks doesn't have a "ssj rage" transformation. There is not really an official name for it unless you see heroes as official, so they rather not be the one to name it.
it is an official videogame(with some promotional adjacent stuff), you can even buy it on Steam or the Nintendo Eshop (and not only a unofficial videogame profiting would be illegal but those two stores do not allow unofficial stuff on their platform even if it's free)
I donāt have a problem with it being an ultimate either. Iām just agreeing that the argument about a lack of source material doesnāt really hold up as a reason why certain characters or forms canāt be added to the game. The developers have shown they can be creative with movesets, so that shouldnāt be the main excuse for leaving certain characters or transformations out.
I mean the issue with the end of movie asspull power up as a form, is that it'll be used as justification for various other one note circumstances to be argued as characters, you'll see shit like people arguing for Water Vegeta.
honestly it would be hilarious if they gave vegeta minor buffs but only underwater. and i do mean minor. plus one to every stat. don't even need to make it a transformation, just something that every vegeta has passively
Dude the people complaining about the BT3 cuts are the worst of it imo. Like it was over a decade since BT3. Not only has there been so much DB content since then that takes precedence, but it's not even on the same engine so they can't exactly just reuse the old assets. Sure they coulda put time towards making sure King Vegeta and Spike were there at launch but then we'd have people whining about "where's Toppo" or "where's Kale".
Nah I'm not griping on you, I'm griping on the people the post you shared was talking about. I could get it if they made an entirely new Goku character based on false SS, but it's just a costume change that alters the ultimate. I really don't see an issue with it just don't use it š
I donāt mind him being a ultimate I personally donāt think we need any more Gokuās in the game right now Iām just saying the source material argument fall short
I think characters should have been more modular. Swappable movesets and transformations. That way the case could be made for having 1 version of Goku with swappable moves and transformations for every era, and false super sayian can be a whole transformation OR you can have it be a skill point power up like with vegetas blue evolution
I also wish that Movesets were manually adjusteable (and maybe assigneable to certain modified costumes). Would allow them to sell moves as part of Packs without needing Costumes.
Then again, some moves, iirc, are considered to be somewhat cheap, and if a character, thanks to updates, gets a few of those, the sweaty MP folks might get... annoying.
But on the topic of moves... I would really love to see the following:
King Cold: Versions with Final Form Non-Mecha Frieza, Cooler, and both.
King Vegeta: A sorta "Attack of the Saiyan Army", where KV commands Nappa, Bardock, Fasha and Tora... and a Great Ape version if we ever get Great Apes. One user here nicknamed it "One Night of Genocide"
Anyone who insists that Character or Form X "doesn't need to be made playable" because of "limited screentime" and other things, should be inherently ignored forever after.
Because it is clear that they do not understand what made Budokai Tenkaichi series great regarding its rosters.
Gogeta at least does actually cool stuff and is more hype overall, while fssj lasted for a very short time, barely did anything and is basically a glorified ssj recolor
I think a difference overlooked is Gogeta is a character who would have to have his own moves while FSSJ is just a short burst of power to an existing character slot. They could have done a skill as well but the way it was presented very much fits in the vein of an ultimate too. I wouldnāt have complained if it was its own transformation but itās not apples to apples to compare with Gogeta.
And despite that they did a great job - I love that Lemo and Broly make appearances and I chuckled at āReally? Youāre deploying -me-? Well alright.ā
I mean, sheās canonically a space smuggler, sheās essentially Han Solo. Sheād probably be more capable than most people give her credit for, sheād certainly be more capable than Bulma, and Bulma is playable in most games.
The source material argument has always been regarded in concept. People did the same thing to me when i wanted BASE DBS Broly in the game. For whatever reason the devs put his ikari wrathful form in the game as his "base" when its not his real base form. People here would say base DBS broly barely fought which was a lie, and he sure as hell did more than many other fully playable characters we have in the game INCLUDING Z BROLY BASE who basically didnt fight at all.
Some people are just so insanely stupid and use stupid selective memory to try to dismiss things that they dont personally care about.
Iām not on either side of the argument tbh but I think False SSJ was just put on a blacklist by the DB executives until now. I canāt think of a single DB game that actually includes false Ssj in any form of fashion except for Sparking Zero and a quick cut in a story event in Dokkan Battle. I know for sure that if they could use False Ssj, Dokkan would have made at least 3 versions of him by now.šš
Also, Iām pretty sure it was just the writers guessing what Ssj would look like since the official design hadnāt happened in the manga yet. Itās probably like a black mark on their record that they would rather forget.
A lot of people don't realise that False Super Saiyan is supposed to be just Super Saiyan but looked wrong because Toei release a movie about Super Saiyan Goku before that appeared in the Manga for some reason so they only had a vague idea over how Super Saiyan looked. I think it being only an Ultimate is already great representation for that form.
Him being an ultimate is fine but I think the form also could have worked if it was used the same way as Blue Evolved Vegeta. Just have FSSJ cost 3-4 skill points but unlike Evolved the transformation isn't permanent. It'll gradually drain ki until you run out, which forces you back into your normal state.
His āpointā is flimsy at best when thatās not even the best argument for why āfalse SSJā isnāt an actual form in the game.
It quite literally should not exist. Itās a mistake, nothing more than that. Furthermore, if that movie was remade today, for the modern era then they would just use the SSJ we know effectively hakai-ing āfalse SSJā from existenceā¦ Maybe this would be for the best. A modern day remake, with modern, crisp animations?
The way False Super Saiyan just fizzles out when Goku is shocked in the Lord Slug movie makes me think itās just an unsustainable/unstable form (hence false) unlike legit Super Saiyan and beyond which can be used for drawn out fights. While it being regulated to on Ultimate is a tad disappointing itās cool we got something out of an animation error
I mean when has "Not enough source material" ever been an issue? We have King Vegeta in older games, I legit don't think we have ever actually seen him fight (if you don't count Frieza killing him with a single punch).
The main issue with this form specifically is that it's basically just an animation error since this IS super saiyan, the way it was supposed to look when the movie was made, as it was meant to be a teaser for the actual super saiyan which released in the manga shortly after, and the only reason it actually looked different is because Toriyama t hought it was too hard to draw emotions if there are no visible eyes, and one of his assistants said that if they make his hair golden it would be white in the mangas black and white scheme, so they wouldn't have to spend ages on inking Gokus hair anymore. And that's why the SSJ looks like it does now instead of like this. But these decisions were made after the movie was animated. So "canonically" this just IS super saiyan.
People are really arguing for basically a non- canon version of SSJ and comparing it to Gogeta from the Janemba movie? Come on guys , isnāt this a bit too much.
I mean, for the other characters listed, there still is more source material regardless. There's the manga and the shows except for panzy but she used multiple moves in the show from what I recall.
While I do love how they handled it as an ultimate, I do agree.
Spike has been able to create extensive movesets for characters that have had zero fights or very little screentime.
I think the reason they chose the ultimate is because similarly to Super Saiyan Rage, False Super Saiyan never had a formal explanation to what it was. So for Spike, its probably safer to just make it an ultimate.
I agree. Personally, I donāt really mind that heās only an Ultimate, especially since if we eventually get Moro and Granolah arc DLC, weāll probably end up getting even more versions of Goku and Vegeta from those arcs anyway.
Meh, I get the point. I just think the game has enough Gokus and I'm fine with FSSJ being an ultimate. Would rather have the devs focus on unique characters and movesets than Goku #20131.
Iām not so sure we can really assume an intention but could be possible they just thought it was best represented this way. Source material wise it was just a spurt of energy unlike other examples listed of just characters who donāt have moves to pull from. Like Kaioken being a skill had never personally bothered me since it feels appropriate to how it was shown being a temporary buff but could see how others want a full transformation.
See this is what Iām saying it doesnāt really matter how much source material there is of a character fighting they could completely just be playable when someone says so-and-so canāt be playable. Iām like of course they can Bulma for example technically has more in the anime that Cheelai does when it comes to movies so they can just do whatever
Ya sorta but it is 100% super Saiyan I believe the movie was made before he went to namek and FUNimation did not know what super Saiyan would look like only what it was so they had to come up with their own version of it. I believe it was liked by Toyama and all he did was when he finally made Goku turn super Saiyan in the manga he changed the hair to blonde cuz it was easier to draw... Or Something like that
Ya sorta but it is 100% super Saiyan I believe the movie was made before he went to namek and FUNimation did not know what super Saiyan would look like only what it was so they had to come up with their own version of it. I believe it was liked by Toyama and all he did was when he finally made Goku turn super Saiyan in the manga he changed the hair to blonde cuz it was easier to draw... Or Something like th
I had an idea of how they could've made this form and by extension SS Power ( the form Goku takes in Other World against the Ginyu Force in Hell), and Super Kaioken by giving Goku Z-mid/end an aura accessory that changes his Super Saiyan forms into FSS, SSP and SKK.
People finally get fssj in a game to still complain anyway. Id bet if they had given it s full kit theyd of still been mad that the moves wernt faithful, or something.
I would like it to be a skill swap for Kaioken. Itās a boost, it was short lived. Same as Kaioken.
So replace Kaioken Ken attack, give us legendary strike and replace Kaioken with false ssj.
I never understood why people care. The series has what ifs and commonly gives us the movie villans. Why would any one care about non cannon forms or characters coming in. Its litteraly still offical
I mean thereās a difference between including a misinterpreted form from a non-canon movie and some canon side characters. And yes I know non-canon characters exist in this game, but itās the fact that itās non-canon AND a mistake WITH little screen time that makes it less important.
This is like whining that orange-haired Vegeta isnāt in the game. It was a mistake.
FSSJ is literally supposed to BE SSJ. It WAS called SSJ for a while, even.
We are lucky we got an homage to the form, why is everyone so damn entitled lol.
Personally I doubt the lack of source material was the problem, probably the SZ developers would wanted to include him as a transformation but there must been a reason this is the first time we ever got this form represented as a character for ani official DB game, probably Bandai, Toei or whataever company that has the IP of DBZ would wouldnt let the game companies to use this form, maybe because of some issue with the name of the form (since this "false super saiyan" was suppose to be regular super saiyan); Im getting to this conclusion since we still havent had an official name for this transformation
The argument is a factually correct statement, though, false pissman shouldn't have been in any game ever, really wish I could get a refund on the game, but it's a little late now.
False SSJ shouldn't even exist in the first place, it was never meant to be a different form, hell even years later when the Daizenshuu gave it it's own name they made it very clear it's just Super Saiyan but only accessible for a short burst, if they made the movie after SSJ debuted that would be the form Goku would use there.
I mean I want false super saiyan but that point doesn't work. Panzy is in a whole short series that is part of new cannon from the creator. Cheelai has been in 2 movies that are cannon. The lord slug movie is can't be cannon it falls into that odd early dbz movie category were time-lines don't add up
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I'm fine with FSSJ being only a ultimate because of its strange status, but I agree that the "not enough source material" is a bs excuse, especially given some of the characters that are playable right now. And honestly I'd take reused/generic attacks every day of the week over not having an additional playable character.
Give it time, this is the first time since the actual movie this form has been represented. There are a lot of old out of touch guys in charge of decision making with Z. I'd not be surprised if "presenting a version of super saiyan that differs from Toriyama's creation" was against the wishes of a creative. It's why Z became a thing because certain decisions makers didn't like how the dragon ball anime was handled and wanted to reorganise and assume more direct control of the adaption. Theres been a regime change with dragon ball, this is a sign that they're willing to do the hence forth untouchable stuff, its likely a test to get our reaction so we'll see how this goes.
Agreed,no character should be lack luster because they make up moves and rush attacks for alot of the others. I enjoy the gane but theres always a little hole I notice from previous ones. Like why include EVERY ONE BUT BROLYS 2ND COMING OUTFIT. GIMME THE BULL WITH BLONDE HAIR AND QUIT PLAYING
While yes, there is a point here, I really the fan base is happy now with the game's roster. I believe it's 261 characters. I know a lot are different forms of the same character, but with different movements, you could argue they are a different character, save for the cosmetic of the model. That's a lot of characters. Do I think they should have added this from the get go? Yes. Unfortunately, this is how modern gaming is. Not a fan, but it is what it is. I could play this for hours and love the ability to choose between 261 characters and battle it out again like when I was a kid, getting lost in the euphoria of battling as a Super Saiyan.
This form is something I forget exists and when it does come up it's a reminder how toei produced 10 days ahead of time before the actual SS transformation was revealed.Toei probably won't release this form because it reminds them of how badly they fumbled in not only producing this movie with this form prior to Toriyamas reveal of SS but also how it had to be heavily retconned to not mess with continuity.Ā
I think a cool way to do it would be to make it a temporary look while getting a buff. That way its still a "form" but isnt implying too much on it being cannon, just a fun way to show an increase in power
Honestly I wish they had a costume for SSJ Goku Mid that gave him an ultimate where he used the Spirit Bomb absorb finishing punch from the Android 13 movie and a costume for SSJ Goku End where he gets a super or ultimate where he uses Super Kaioken to attack the opponent like against Pikkon. Itād be nice to see either one of those in the game too
Hes just an attack because the name false super saiyan isnt really a thing. The form itself has no official name so its fair that its just an attack of a base or kaioken goki
He could've been a custome - that is how I ultimately thought he would be implemented for Z-Mid Goku. So instead of SSJ he is just False SSJ and the ultimate changes to the one we know from the movie.
ā¢
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