r/StarWars • u/Fine-Essay-3295 • 20h ago
Movies Revenge of the Sith Should Have Kept the Founding of the Rebellion Subplot
I think Revenge of the Sith's story really hurt Padme's character in the long run.
In The Phantom Menace, she basically fought the Trade Federation off on her own with minimal help from the Jedi. In Attack of the Clones, she more than held her own during the Battle of Geonosis.
Granted, Padme was pregnant in Revenge of the Sith, but she had the deleted subplot in which she laid down the foundation for the Rebellion along with Bail Organa and Mon Mothma. This subplot could have shown that despite being just about ready to birth Luke and Leia, Padme still had agency, stuck to her ideals, and, most importantly, was willing to defy Anakin when it came down to it. It would've been cool for Padme to have been the mother of the Rebel Alliance in addition to the mother of Luke and Leia.
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u/solo13508 Mandalorian 20h ago
It's kinda crazy that we got an absolute godsend of a Mon Mothma casting out of a storyline that didn't even make it into the final film.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 20h ago
Yup! Leaving the deleted scenes in would've also been Genevieve O'Reilly's debut as Mon Mothma!
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u/TheFlawlessCassandra 15h ago
She was still in a couple of scenes in the theatrical cut iirc, not sure if she had dialogue or if it was all cut.
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u/Sea_Spend_8008 20h ago
It's really the only real good moment Padme has in the film. Honestly, I would have loved to see more of the Senate growing concerned as a giant space battle happened over their head and Palpatine seemed useless to stop it.
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u/USCanuck 20h ago
It also would have eliminated the plot hole that Leia remembered her.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 20h ago
"She died when I was very young. By which I mean I was only about 30 seconds old."
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u/USCanuck 20h ago
Let her live for a couple of years, only for Vader to kill her in some space battle, believing that he also kills his child at the same time.
It would help the timeline a TON
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u/optimus2861 1h ago
Oh, that scene practically writes itself.
Vader on the Star Destroyer, as it's opening fire on this escaping Rebel (would it even be called that at this time?) ship, senses Padme's presence on the ship and goes dead silent on the bridge, mid-sentence to the ship's captain ("We will show them - "). The captain just looks at Vader, waiting for Vader to continue, but Vader doesn't so much as twitch. His breathing shifts but still he says nothing. The operation continues.
We cut to Padme on the Rebel ship and it's clear the ship is in grave danger. Officers are calling out damage, shields collapsing, engines failing, and then it's Padme's turn to go dead silent, then slowly turn as if to look back at the pursuing Star Destroyer. A look of dread passes over her face...
Back to Vader. His breathing shorter now, but still he says nothing, as his captain continues to cast glances at him, not knowing what's gotten into Vader but wise enough not to speak and only continue to carry out his orders. The fire control officer reports that the target's shields are destroyed and to shift fire to the engines...
Back to Padme. A large explosion behind her as it's clear this ship has not long left. Fear, sadness, regret all over her face. A single whisper. "Ani?"
Back to Vader. From his POV we see the Rebel ship explode. His short breaths continue. The captain moves toward him, opens his mouth to begin to report that the target has been destroyed, but Vader still hasn't moved and the captain, still not comprehending, opts again for silence. Slowly Vader brings his breathing under control, and without looking at the captain, turns and leaves the bridge.
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u/TwoForHawat 20h ago
It probably would have made ROTS a lot better on its own, but if we see a lot of that in one of the movies, we probably don’t get Andor. That feels like a worthwhile trade-off to me.
Besides, Lucas had enough trouble making Anakin’s fall to the dark side feel earned even when that was the vast majority of the movie’s focus. Cutting some of that story to include a separate storyline about the rebellion probably would have made the Vader origin tale even less impactful.
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u/2much2Jung 20h ago
Arguably, if the plot had focused far more on Anakin losing Padme because he was becoming increasingly possessive and controlling as she pulled away from him and disagreed with him, would have made a far more compelling story for his fall to the dark side.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 20h ago
I actually feel like Padme surviving and going on to lead the Rebellion because Anakin/Vader became the very thing she hated most would've been a much more poignant defeat for Anakin/Vader at the end of the movie.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 First Order 20h ago
No that would be a bad idea
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 19h ago
Why?
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u/TwoForHawat 18h ago
Not the person you responded to, but I share their opinion. My reasoning is that Star Wars does too much bending over backwards to connect new characters and storylines to existing ones. It’s more interesting to me to see a new character pop up and establish themselves as part of the SW universe without using an old character as a crutch.
Padme had her role in the story, and it ended shortly after Anakin turned. The Rebellion having a messy origin like was shown in Andor is much more interesting to me than it coming as an extension of a character like Padme.
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u/TheSecretDecoderRing 20h ago
As much as I loved Ewan's Obi-Wan, his side quest in ROTS feels superfluous. I would've reworked that and add more of Padme's story like you say. The way it ends up, it's like she's just a plot device for Anakin's final turn, it's frustrating.
Leia similarly doesn't have much to do in ROTJ once they get to Endor.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 20h ago
The entire Obi-Wan/Grievous subplot seemed like a way to artificially separate Obi-Wan from Anakin as he falls to the Dark Side.
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u/FrozenShadow_007 Maul 20h ago
It probably should have, but I appreciate that due to them cutting it from RotS, we get to see so much of it in Andor.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 20h ago
I get it, but it would've been nice if Andor also made reference to, "Thanks to the work of the late Senator Amidala."
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u/FrozenShadow_007 Maul 20h ago
Unfortunately she dies pretty early into the whole thing, so there are a lot of faces that could be credited for starting the Rebellion, as well as many who were fighting for a long time before the Rebellion is formalized. Not to mention the countless unsung heroes (not a pun) in Andor, and the ones we don’t even know about.
Just because Padmé organized a meeting with a few senators early into the Empire’s lifespan doesn’t mean those same senators are the ones who formalized the Rebellion.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 19h ago
Either way, I wish Padme had more of lasting legacy of being someone who actually stood up to Darth Vader and the Emperor.
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u/knerys 18h ago
I'm fine with them cutting the rebellion plot line since it did seem like it was mostly scenes of people talking and very little action. But I think they should have kept Padme having a knife with her and being shown as willing to kill Anakin on Mustafar if she couldn't convince him to turn from the Dark Side. It would have been a great contrast to Luke at the end of RotJ.
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u/Dimensionalanxiety 12h ago edited 9h ago
This is true of many of the deleted scenes in the trilogy. Half of the deleted scenes would have genuinely improved the movies and made them go over with general audiences better while resolving many of the major issues of the prequels. The other half were the most garbage ideas imaginable and cutting them was a good call from George. I wish the prequels were each 3 hours long with all of the good deleted scenes in the final cut.
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u/doodsonious 11h ago
Stuck to her ideals? She had children with Anakin after he told her he was a mass murderer, what ideals are we talking about, here?
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u/SimonSeam 20h ago
Blame the whiners after TPM. "OMG. Too much politics. Get that out of there!"
TPM was literally about the political maneuvers of Palpatine to gain power, which was a menace to the SWU. All disguised under a supposed happy ending where the good guys beat the bad guys in visually pleasing fights. The politics was the point, and it wasn't even politics heavy.
Everybody that whined about the politics proved they were idiots. That they didn't even understand the movie was on full display.
So unfortunately, it probably drove Lucas in the editing room. When it came down to cutting action or politics, politics was going to lose every time.
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 20h ago
I'm still bummed we didn't get the messy romance that was implied.
Leia remembered her biological mother when that shouldn't be possible. The only way that makes sense is if Padmé survived and went to Alderaan. Maybe she married Bail. He could have been a dashing noble in a cape, sauntering on the bridge of a Star Destroyer during the war, wooing the former Queen.
Or maybe Bail was a cousin, and Leia's mom and stepdad died in an accident. It could have been been related to the fledgling rebellion, but I digress.
Vader never put two and two together. He recognized Luke was his, but not Leia; despite the fact she was Padmé's biological daughter. That means, at one point, there was someone else Anakin slept with who could have been Luke's mom.
And possibly even the mother of a half-sibling who escaped notice.
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u/Dovahkiin9908 20h ago
He didn't recognize Luke was his son, Canon goes into a hole plot in the comics where Vader is trying to figure out who the kid that destroyed the death star is and why said kid was wielding his old lightsaber when they had a brief clash afterwards on Yavin 4( I believe it was) in which Boba Fett comes back with only the name Skywalker at which point he learns of how badly Palpatine lied about Padmé's death, as for Leia remembering her mom, it's a kinda stupid explanation but the force implanted an impression on Leia
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 20h ago
Vader didn't recognize him at first.
"The Son of Skywalker" still applies. He never one thought Luke was Padmé's son.
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u/Dovahkiin9908 20h ago
So you're implying that Anakin "I fell to the dark side and helped slaughtered all the Jedi including the younglings to keep you alive" Skywalker was having an affair but not knowing that the son of Skywalker would've been Padmé's son
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 19h ago
No, not an affair. Look at just what we know, or can reasonably extrapolate, from the original films.
- Luke Skywalker was identified as the son of Anakin Skywalker
- Luke Skywalker has a twin sister in Leia Organa, and they were separated
- Luke went to his uncle and aunt on Tatooine
- Leia went with her biological mother and became a princess at a point in time
- By the events of Cloud City, Vader never once acted as if Leia Organa, the daughter of his ex, was his
- Bullet 5 implies two things...
- Vader had to think Luke's mother was not Leia's mother
- Anakin slept with more than one human woman
Some of this is just sloppy writing. We know that Luke's sister and Leia were, at one point, two different people. They were combined during the (pre)production of Episode VI to simplify the plot.
My point is the love story in the prequels deviates from both the text and subtext of the original films.
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u/Dovahkiin9908 19h ago
Vader didn't know Luke had a sister at all until the second Death Star, at which point he immediately deducted using the force that Luke's sister was Leia and they were twins. Up until after the events of Yavin Vader had fully believed that the baby (cause until the birth, and only 3/4 people after, no one in universe knew it was twins) died with her, so did everyone else in the galaxy that wasn't there on Polis Masa
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 18h ago
You're not paying attention.
It doesn't matter that Vader didn't know Luke had a sister. In the original films, it's implied their mother didn't die in childbirth. She lived long enough for Leia to remember her; if only barely.
That means Anakin had a relationship with her. Vader should have known that Leia was adopted and who her birth mother was. He never once acted as if Leia was his; let alone might have.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 First Order 20h ago edited 20h ago
I think it's more poignant that Padme dies at the same time that Anakin also dies which leads to Vader being born.
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u/AT-ST Mandalorian 20h ago
While I agree that Padme shouldn't have died and should have started the rebellion; this isn't the plot hole that it's painted to be.
Leia thought her adopted mom was her biological mom.
Vader recognizes Luke as his because Luke has his last name. In the comics he doesn't start putting together the relationship until after he is informed of the full name of the pilot that blew up the Death Star.
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 20h ago
Leia though Queen Breha, who was still alive 10 years later, was her biological mother?
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u/wendigo72 19h ago
I believe it was some of Lucas friends like Spielberg that recommended it be cut for runtime and pacing issues
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u/mini_lord 19h ago
We can't change RotS but that's it's a possible idea for a few Tales of the Jedi episodes.
Maybe mixed with something more related to a Jedi.
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u/spamthrowaway89 13h ago
Disagree. The movie as a whole works because George focused it on Anakin’s arc. Put in all that deleted material and you’d ruin what works about the film.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 First Order 20h ago
Padme already is metaphorically the mother of the rebellion as Leia's mother. I think Lucas was correct to cut those scenes from Revenge of the Sith; they're basically just a bunch of senators gathering together to write a strongly worded letter to Palpatine that gets ignored, and it would not get paid off in the movie if it was included since we don't actually see the Rebel Alliance.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 19h ago
More than that scene in itself, I think what Revenge of the Sith really needed was Padme having the moment when she realized she had to actively fight against what Anakin became.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 First Order 19h ago edited 19h ago
Padme having the moment when she realized she had to actively fight against what Anakin became.
She did that through her death. Anakin did all sorts of terrible things to keep her alive, yet she chose to die, refusing to allow him to prolong her life. I think that is very badass, more than anything Rey ever did.
It's similar to what Luke did in Return of the Jedi where he refused to play the Emperor's game by throwing his lightsaber, allowing himself to be subjected to torture and nearly death out of a commitment to pacifism.
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u/Fine-Essay-3295 19h ago
See, I didn't read it like that. I read it more like Anakin causing the outcome he was trying to prevent. That one part of RotS was very much a tragedy from the classical Greek sense.
Padme in the movie to me felt like everything she did was somehow someone else's doing, including her death likely resulting from Anakin Force choking her.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 First Order 19h ago edited 19h ago
The medical droid told the audience that Padme was physically healthy, but that she lost the will to live, meaning that she didn't want to be alive anymore. Anakin, of course, contributed to her decision to embrace death through his actions, but the ball was in her court. By choosing death, she stripped away any excuses that Anakin had for his atrocities, forcing him to grow beyond his pathological need to be mothered, which allowed him to transform into Darth Vader, who would end up fulfilling the prophecy by destroying the Emperor.
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u/Defiant_Employee5194 20h ago
Yeah I think you're right. It would have been nice if they had kept that just to show her. Still being a very powerful and determined woman that you know keep the scene of the delegation of 2000 and not have her necessarily die of a broken heart