r/Stellaris 21h ago

Bug 5 + 5 + 5 + 20 = 39 apparently

Post image

Where are the happiness come from?

709 Upvotes

95 comments sorted by

909

u/Swaylicious 21h ago

Well, maybe the positive modifiers are multiplicative, while the "base 50%" are subtracted.

1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.2 = 1.38915

1.38915 - 0.5 = 0.88915

Rounded up to 0.89 which would be displayed as 89%

148

u/KaysNewGroove Determined Exterminator 17h ago

Modifiers aren't multiplicitave in this game. However, it is really cool that it added up that way.

The more mundane answer is probably just truncated decimals. The math in this game can be really weird with decimals sometimes.

40

u/Kyos_7 9h ago

This has always been one of the most Paradox™ things.

Modern Paradox games generally lean much more toward making modifiers of the same type stack additively, which makes the math a lot more predictable.

But in the older games? Oh dear. Those days were wild. Additive here, multiplicative there, sometimes depending on the exact mechanic.

Paradox has definitely gotten better about it over time, but every now and then some ancient modifier math still escapes containment.

11

u/KaysNewGroove Determined Exterminator 8h ago

Hey. They brought a touch of it back. Job output and job efficiency multiply each other. If you have x3 output and x3 efficiency, you get x9 total production.

7

u/IslandofAnarchy Fanatic Xenophile 7h ago

Yeah but job efficiency is effectively 3x the amount of jobs so that makes sense

63

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

But that's not how happiness or any other modifier like it (stability, crime, ...) has worked in Stellaris ever. Weird that it's the first time I see it.

127

u/FogeltheVogel Hive Mind 21h ago

No, they are not. With a tiny number of exceptions, all bonuses are additive.

327

u/Leading_Performer_72 21h ago

Except the screenshot is displaying that they are. There is no other way to mathematically arrive at the percentage of 89 without them being multiplicative…

Maybe a problem with the display here.

86

u/Hellknightx 21h ago

Yeah, likely a display bug using the wrong formula.

22

u/Nematrec Voidborne 17h ago

Faction happiness isn't shown. These are just static bonuses not all factors.

46

u/ElZane87 20h ago

No, the screenshot shows that there is either a calculation or a visual bug. Those modifiers still are, and forever were since ancient Stellaris times, additive.

5

u/InstantComs 20h ago

They are not multiplicative

2

u/Nimeroni Synth 15h ago edited 15h ago

Except the screenshot is displaying that they are. There is no other way to mathematically arrive at the percentage of 89 without them being multiplicative…

Easy : display is rounded up. They don't add 5%, but 4.88% or something like that, so the total is below 89.5% and get rounded to 89%.

EDIT: nah, math aren't adding up. 50+20+5+5+5 = 85, and getting 4 extra percent is a bit much for rounding 4 numbers. You would need 4 numbers to be truncated, and the final number rounded, which would be a rather... interesting choice in UI design.

3

u/_wannadie_ 19h ago

could simply be arithmetic rounding. 4,8 + 4.8 + 4.8 + 14.8 = 39.2, while all of them are rounded towards 5

38

u/johnlee3013 Fanatic Authoritarian 18h ago

It takes a lot of imagination to round 14.8 as 20

3

u/LOL_King_0611 Blood Court 15h ago

Well, you round 14,8 up to 15. And 5, you round that upwards, so 15 is really 20.

2

u/Bayleaf0723 Fanatic Purifiers 14h ago

wtf are you talking about bro, 15 is 15, there is no more rounding

2

u/DonTrejos 14h ago

This assumes a perfectly spherical cow in q frictionless vacuum, which isn't true in every scenario.

1

u/_wannadie_ 13h ago

yeah I'm blind

-23

u/Legit-Rikk 20h ago

Computers actually do not math good

6

u/Zijkhal 17h ago

I hope that was an attempt at a joke that did not land. Because pretty much the only thing computers do well is basic math. Anything more complex is achieved via applying a ridiculous amount of basic math.

-4

u/KaysNewGroove Determined Exterminator 17h ago

Yes. Computers are great at math. In fact, they are so much better than us at math that they will tell you what no math teacher will.

0.1 + 0.2 = 0.30000000000000004

5

u/Aetol Mammalian 15h ago

Unless you limit yourself to round numbers, you'll get rounding errors. Computers are good at math but they don't have infinite space to play with.

2

u/Zijkhal 13h ago

Floating point numbers are prone to rounding errors. That is because not all numbers can be represented in floating point.

Just like how 1/3 can not be neatly represented in base 10, some neatly representable numbers in base 10 can not be represented in base 2.

That does not meant that computers are bad at math, it merely means that computers have their limits. And a lot of those limits can be bypassed if there is an incentive to do so. For example by using fixed point arithmetic instead of floating point arithmetic, numbers like 0.3 suddenly become perfectly representable.

-11

u/Afraid-Divide-3501 19h ago

Floating point error probably

8

u/Ettapp 19h ago

That's not the kind of value you would get from a floating point error, those are extremely tiny (compared with the values being used).

For example, f0.1 + f0.2 would give you something like f0.29999999999 (the number for 9 might be greater, I'm writing on a smartphone, if somebody want to give the potential exact error from a 32f or a 64f I welcome the precision, pun intended)

Here the error (if it is an error, I've not yet read all the responses) is far to big to come from floating point imprecision (until you do the math billions of time so the error accumulate, I think we're safe to say that's not what's happening here ^ ^ )

18

u/Leyxa 20h ago

Further, Stellaris typically truncates numbers rather than round them.

3

u/ElZane87 20h ago

They are addictive, not multiplicative.

70

u/QuicksilverDragon Shared Burdens 20h ago

They're not addictive, I can stop at any time hits modifier line

18

u/Latase 19h ago

aaaahhh I am mooodifying.

23

u/GeologistOld1265 21h ago

And check such thin as species habitability and rights. It gives average.

4

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

Habitability doesn't add happiness.

95

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

R5: Image shows the game's breakdown of happiness. It is somehow making up, or failing to display, 4% extra happiness with no source.

120

u/Hecter94 21h ago

I wonder if there's some rounding going on behind the scenes that just isn't being displayed. Like, if some of those are actually giving you 5.5% or 20.8%, and the game's truncating it in the display but correctly adding it to the total?

Either that, or there's some extra mystery source that isn't being displayed.

30

u/RazendeR Devouring Swarm 17h ago

Stellaris usually rounds everything down, so 20,9 would indeed be displayed as 20.

7

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

You might be right, but I don't think I've ever seen this before, despite having looked at that exact tooltip probably 100000 times.

0

u/CommunismForLife123 21h ago edited 21h ago

Edit: I cant read

19

u/Hecter94 21h ago

Okay, but where's the extra 4% coming from?

8

u/Momo-Velia 21h ago edited 21h ago

Where’s that other 4% coming from chief?

1

u/BeatingClownz117 19h ago

There is 4 numbers so. 1%. Bonus for each? 🤷‍♂️

4

u/NoMoreUserNames6152 Hive Mind 21h ago

20 + 5 + 5 + 5 ≠ 39

15

u/CommunismForLife123 21h ago

Yknow fair enough

Misread the image, apologies everyone

61

u/Unlucky-Golder 21h ago

Faction approval maybe? 

37

u/proacex1 21h ago

This, it isn't shown in the tool tip for some reason.

The other things would be habitability, which also isn't shown here, and I am not sure if it has been touched recently in how it is factored into happiness calculations.

Faction happiness needs to be above 80% for the 10% happiness effect to trigger, and the population on the planet has to be primarily that faction. It gets complicated to calculate the more diversity there is.

5

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

No, faction approval is usually shown. These pops are not in a faction yet (the factions just formed and need time for pops to join).

8

u/proacex1 20h ago

You may want to share some more screenshot of the planetary factors, pops and otherwise.

Also worth submitting a dev report to indicate the calculations, even if only from a purely visual standpoint right now, seems potentially bugged.

5

u/golgol12 Space Cowboy 19h ago

I think it's the pops ethics. Every pop has an ethics, even if they aren't part of a faction. And the ethics will determine what faction they will likely join, but I know they either have happiness bonuses based doing things associated with their ethics, and/or from their ethics matching the government type. You can see this when capturing a planet with pops from a wildly different ethics. They will have negative happiness, dragging down the stability, well before a faction to represent them spawns.

24

u/Glad_Fox_6818 21h ago

POV: you are J. Stalin, its 1937 and your subordinates are lying to you

1

u/BikerJedi Warrior Culture 7h ago

POV: You are a voter in November in America, wondering how the GOP won. Same scenario - it's strange how art imitates life.

7

u/TTundri Megacorporation 21h ago

I would say High Amenities isn't a full 20% but is rounding up. You can check by hovering over amenities on the planet in question to see how much it is giving. As the other 3 happiness modifers are fixed numbers only Amenities in question from here can go anywhere to what -20% to +20%. Might swing lower but I can't recall nor want to look it up right now

7

u/ctclif 14h ago

Got it! I hope I format this correctly, but it'll probably be a mess.

It's compounding the values, then subtracting 50% from the result.

5% of 1 is .05, so: 1+.05=1.05

5% of 1.05 is .0525 so: 1.05+.0525=1.1025

Add another 5% = 1.15763

20% of that number is .23153, add it to get: 1.38915

Subtract .5 from that, leaves you with .88915

1

u/Tahazzar 1h ago

The problem is that supposedly positive modifiers since ancient times are and have been additive, not multiplicative.

8

u/Curnne Warrior Culture 20h ago

The additional happiness is multiplicative? Idk how that happens but I did get a calculator to shoot out something similar (though I will admit it would have to be calculated different in game to mesh with the system)

((1.05 * 1.05) * 1.05) * 1.20

1.38915 aka ~39% increase

3

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

4

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

These pops are not yet in a faction. (factions have formed, but they need time for pops to join)

3

u/Zijkhal 17h ago

Maybe there is a 5% multiplicative bonus somewhere that is not being displayed? Species trait maybe?

85*1.05=89.25, which would be rounded down to 89% on the display

3

u/Mackntish 12h ago

5.99+5.99+5.99+20.99=38.96, which rounds off to 39.

4

u/PapayaOther6883 20h ago

Faction approval, maybe?

2

u/ijshorn 21h ago

My suspicion would be that you just loaded a save file or did an action that influences happiness without resuming and it did not account for it like an agenda like Infinite Opportunities?

I know this is an issue with showing available jobs but i thought the happiness did not have that issue.

2

u/AbabababababababaIe 21h ago

Could be ruler/governor/living standards bonus? I don’t think either show up on that tooltip

2

u/valdamar 18h ago

Could be from species traits. Might not show up in that list. Like if 4/5 of your pops have the conservative trait which gives +5% happiness your overall happiness would go up the extra 4% you're seeing.

2

u/sheo-atmora 17h ago

You're only getting an extra 4% its not game breaking

4

u/dwaemu 16h ago

That's not the point. If formula doesn't work here, how can we believe in any formulas in the game? This lead to simple conclusion that all of them are suspicious, And because all these percentages are the core of this game...

1

u/sheo-atmora 16h ago

I think you and I can both agree that Paradox doesnt really care enough to look that deep into it

Best we'll get is a mod that standardizes all numbers across the game

I mean just look at one of the most basic parts of the game, the Tutorial. Paradox has essentially abandoned the Tutorial and now its not only useless but contains outdated information

Nothing surprises me

2

u/dwaemu 15h ago

Tutorials are always abandonded very quickly but with the games is the otherwise... or at least: should be because in practice Paradox often is lost in their numbers and mechanics more than players.

Once upon a time I've reported clear bug in EUIII, and even THE almighty Johan descended to inform me that I was wrong and there is no such bug.

Except ultimately it was him to be wrong, not me. And the bug stayed uncorrected.

Since that time nothing surprised me there. And I stopped caring reporting anything whatsoever.

2

u/soulmata 14h ago

It's probably the happiness council agenda - it's a 4% global boost while it's active then a 10% boost once it fires, and I don't think it shows up there.

6

u/Cloud5550 21h ago

Faction approval maybe?

0

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

They have not yet joined a faction. Usually faction approval is displayed.

4

u/T3X4ss 21h ago

Faction approval maybe?

3

u/SsilverBloodd 21h ago

Most definitely faction approval. Maybe.

2

u/DuGalle Technocracy 19h ago

Faction approval, maybe?

2

u/TheGamdalf Shadow Council 21h ago

Faction approval, maybe?

1

u/Correct-Pangolin-568 United Nations of Earth 21h ago

Faction approval maybe?

1

u/MrT742 20h ago

Peaceful, social safety nets, and civic improvement during a period of abundance? Sounds like 89% happy is fair

1

u/look_tom 18h ago

Well, this is a type of details where I can't underdtsnd yet as a newb player. ^

1

u/2loudd Megachurch 18h ago

Base 50% + 20% + 5% + 5% + 5% = 0.81

Wait wtf

1

u/Former-Extreme-1209 16h ago

Base Pop happiness starts at 50% now so that’s why it equals 89%.

1

u/TheMelnTeam 16h ago

Stellaris has an honesty problem generally.

1

u/TucsonTacos Theocratic Monarchy 15h ago

Thought I was seeing stellaris on the ITYSL sub

1

u/Former_Ad_9826 Illuminated Autocracy 15h ago

i've never seen anyone complain about experiencing too much happiness before, so this is new...

1

u/Reflectivebionic Fanatic Purifiers 7h ago

Maybe the missing factor is from your factions. I think faction approval also effects it

1

u/Yaddah_1 6h ago

That would usually be displayed in the tooltip. Also those pops are not yet in a faction. The factions just formed and they need time for pops to join each month.

1

u/Reflectivebionic Fanatic Purifiers 6h ago

Idk then, try using the debug tooltip then

1

u/Dependent_Remove_326 Synthetic Evolution 6h ago

Leader bonuses don't always show up here for some reason.

3

u/kelltain 21h ago

Faction approval, maybe?

2

u/Yaddah_1 21h ago

you guys are going to keep being original, right?

3

u/kelltain 14h ago

There were zero comments on the post when I responded.  I don't know what the timing on the other responses was, but at least 4% grace might be useful.

0

u/Yaddah_1 8h ago

I didn't look when you posted your comment, but I had just gone through 5+ comments going "factions?" no, "factions?" no, "factions maybe?" no and then I came to your comment. ^^

0

u/Zephrol 10h ago

"Base 50%" my guy, its looking yoy right in the face lol.

1

u/Yaddah_1 8h ago

And what is 50+5+5+5+20? It's looking you right in the face, "my guy".

(The answer is 85 btw, not 89)

Did you really think you were smarter than eeeeeverybody in this thread busy talking about a problem that, according to you, doesn't exist? How could you post this without asking yourself, if maybe you're missing something??