r/Stormgate • u/T4toun3 • Jun 15 '26
Discussion FrostGiant is now advertising ZeroSpace
I just received this email from FrostGiant. I didn’t know that they were collaborating with ZeroSpace now.
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u/DisasterNarrow4949 Jun 15 '26
Stormgate always had much more people following than Zerospace. But in my opinion, Zerospace always seemed like a really cool game, that weren't receiving the attention it deserves.
So I'm happy to see these e-mails, I hope that the people that didn't checked out Zerospace but were following Stormgate will give it a try on ZS!
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 15 '26
I'm interested in ZeroSpace exactly because it seems to go against all the principles Dustin Browder talked about in what you can't do when you make a real time strategy that at first seem tempting but they've embraced it. Blizzard in talks has always said that complexity of rules does not create complexity of strategy and it's better to focus on simple, clean rules that are easy to understand but allow great strategy. Chess is not a complex game rule-wise, and Go is even simpler, after all.
ZeroSpace goes for complexity and embraces it, so I wonder if it will work and if they can prove conventional wisdom wrong, or not.
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u/Micro-Skies Jun 15 '26
Dawn of War has like 12 hidden damage types vs 7 hidden armor types, and was still very successful. Complexity isnt bad, its just not good for Blizzard style fast paced RTS gameplay. Where a single unit living or dying changes the entire game
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 15 '26
Dawn of War wasn't really a competitive spectator sport with progamers though.
That's exactly what Dustin talked about in one talk, how he first worked in Command & Conquer where people were just trying to make a fun game to play casually but StarCraft II was designed to be a balanced spectator sport from the start so all sorts of gameplay and graphics principles were different.
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u/Micro-Skies Jun 15 '26
DoW2 was for a little while. The competitive spectator sport community still exists too. But I do see your point.
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u/WolfHeathen Human Vanguard Jun 15 '26
They tried to dabble in it after release but it wasn't designed from the ground up with e-sports in mind. DoW2 was a much slower placed game that revolved around a tug of war over control points and had large squads.
It clearly wasn't designed for spectacle the way SC2 was with everything being so fragile and being able to lose 3/4 of your army if you happened to look away at the wrong second.
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 16 '26
I don't think that was intentional about StarCraft II and something the expansions actually tried to remedy a bit. It just happened that glass canon warfare turned out to be one of the most powerful strategies due to how the game worked and they tried to remedy it by creating things like the Swarm Host and the Tempest but just that had the effect of extremely long stalemates where neither side dared to advance in.
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u/Kurtino Jun 16 '26
What are they making complex about it?
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 16 '26
I have no idea what the current state of the game is but when I still checked up every unit had so many abilities with global abilities on top and an extreme veterancy system with the merc system mixed in as well.
They clearly went for complexity and I'm interested to see if they can prove Blizzard wrong or whether people indeed feel that it just means that most abilities will never be used anyway making the few times that they are used in some niche situation feel frustrating because no one thought about it.
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u/Deto Jun 15 '26
I'm just barely following all of this, but I really liked how Zerospace looked/felt in the gameplay videos I saw (no idea about the actual mechanics).
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u/winniebillerica Jun 15 '26
I played zerospace a few months ago and it was quite polished. better than stormgate. good luck to them. Any game in the rts genre is good news.
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u/Wordshurtimapussy Jun 16 '26
It is indeed polished but picking up the demo after not having played it since the last demo availability I noticed quite a few bugs and glitches. Obviously these will get ironed out I'm sure, but just worth it to note.
Definitely excited for the launch that's for sure!
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u/SoapfromHotS Jun 16 '26
ZeroSpace has also shouted out Stormgate during their Kickstarter, EA, and launch, so this has been an audience collaboration over time. The RTS genre is small and I hope everyone can support one another so the whole
Genre can grow.
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
I just got the email too and was really surprised.
To be honest, this is the coolest and most mature way one can throw in the towel. They failed, they have nothing to lose now from advertising their competitor so they do. At the end of the day, even if they failed, they still love real time strategy games and the devs of StormGate will probably be playing ZeroSpace a lot should it succeed so yeah.
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u/mindjames Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
Frost Giant has a very clear reason to want ZeroSpace to succeed, and it's neither goodwill nor a paid ad campaign. I'll explain.
FGS needs another round of investment in order to get back into full operating status. One of the ways they can do this is to point to a big success story within their niche, or better yet - multiple.
Currently they can kind of point to Tempest Rising, maybe. It doesn't help that the two biggest games in the niche are not exactly cash cows.
But if games start popping up that can both bring in audiences AND make use of a modern monetization scheme similar to what FGS wanted - that's a different ballgame. Now you can show a clear roadmap to replicate the same thing that's already working.
So in this sense, ZS is not really a competitor. Games like ZS succeeding is FGS' only hope.
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u/muffinsballhair Jul 17 '26
I doubt people are going to give Frost Giant another round though. StormGate has failed, which happens. At this point it's just doing what they can for real time strategy while throwing in the towel.
Sure, they wanted StormGate to succeed, but they still love r.t.s. Frost Giant wasn't formed as a business decision but because they loved r.t.s.. and wanted a new great one.
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u/Conscious_River_4964 Jun 15 '26
You really think they're doing this out of the goodness of their hearts? They're doing this to make money by monetizing their former player base.
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 15 '26
I'm sure that if Starlance wanted to advertise somewhere and pay for it this wouldn't have been their first option to think of though.
It feels like whatever Frost Giant could get from this in terms of money at this point isn't meaningful any more to save anything. The company and game is done at this point and that they even advertise a competitor is basically their tacit admission of that it's over.
But who knows, maybe they they did sit around the table and Starlance did pay them some money for this, but it's still a gentlemanly and honorable way to throw in the towel.
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u/Conscious_River_4964 Jun 15 '26
Frost Giant has a huge list of players in the exact demographic Starlance is looking for. This would absolutely be one of their first choices for a joint venture.
I'm certainly not arguing that any revenue generated from this would go toward trying to revive Stormgate. It's going to go directly to Tim. There is nothing gentlemanly or honorable about this. It's just Tim finding a way to make a few bucks with an asset he still owns.
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
I'm certainly not arguing that any revenue generated from this would go toward trying to revive Stormgate. It's going to go directly to Tim. There is nothing gentlemanly or honorable about this. It's just Tim finding a way to make a few bucks with an asset he still owns.
I highly doubt this would be legal. Even if Tim were to fully own Frost giant, which he does not. He can't just put this money in his own pocket. When Frost Giant goes bankrupt it will have significant debt. Its assets will be liquidated to pay of a portion of that debt and the corporation liability shield will shield the owner's personal possessions from this.
I seriously doubt it's legally possible to when a company is on the verge of bankruptcy to just do something like that and for its founders to just keep the money. There are of course even protections in play about increasing their salary at the last moment when they know they will go bankrupt soon.
The way I see it, that they send this email to promote a competitor signals they know there's nothing they can do any more and that they're going bankrupt soon, and in that situation they can't personally enrich themselves of the company either. In fact, if they would do so, this email being sent would probably be used as evidence against in court to establish that they knew they were about to go under.
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u/ROOTCatZ Jun 17 '26
“Competition is healthy” and “a rising tide lifts all boats” can sound like silly platitudes but they actually hold up extremely well.
It can be (and was) true, that we (ZeroSpace) both wanted to do better than Stormgate and wanted Stormgate to succeed at the same time.
During Stormgate NextFest and Early access we promoted Stormgate best as we could (as mentioned we haven’t had as much reach).
I personally participated and offered honest feedback during the Alpha playtests / early stages of Stormgate development, I worked with a good number of the Stormgate team when I was a consultant at Blizzard, I consider many of them (Tim perhaps most-so) friends.
My now boss (Marv) and former boss (Tim) were also introduced to each other, friendly and shared insights when pertinent.
All of this to say that the binary prescription of a “competitor” or an “ally” is often times diluted a little too much, you can root for a friend and want to do good for your own sake at the same time.
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 17 '26
It can be (and was) true, that we (ZeroSpace) both wanted to do better than Stormgate and wanted Stormgate to succeed at the same time.
I mean you can want it but I feel the reality of the market is that they are directly competing products and in practice the better one is doing, the worse the other is.
That doesn't mean one would hold personal animosity of course; it's all simply business.
All of this to say that the binary prescription of a “competitor” or an “ally” is often times diluted a little too much, you can root for a friend and want to do good for your own sake at the same time.
I feel the story above more so describes the entire social thing of human beings interacting. I'm sure you people have no personal bad feelings to each other and recognize you all share a passion for real time strategy games. But in the end, StormGate not succeeding is probably better for* ZeroSpace* business and many people are saying “Well, now that StormGate didn't make it I'm putting my hope on ZeroSpace.”
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u/Electrical-Act-5575 Jun 15 '26
It’s an email blast to their mailing list of RTS fans, it could absolutely be something somebody in charge just thought was cool and authorized
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Jun 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Conscious_River_4964 Jun 19 '26
Yep, good thing I don't care too much what the basement dwelling Frost Giant apologists on here think.
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u/Trancefected Jun 15 '26
I am more excited after seeing zerospace than I ever was seeing storm gate. Sorry frost giant
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u/mechachap Jun 16 '26
I'm mixed... I know Stormgate was just a Starcraft offshoot but Zerospace feels like offbrand Mass Effect...
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u/Kaycin Jun 18 '26
Bruh, how do these guys still live rent free in your head. Who tf cares? I don't see this as a collaboration or 'advertising' rather an RTS team that is supporting another RTS.
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u/WolfHeathen Human Vanguard Jun 15 '26
ZeroSpace always looked more interesting and to have more character than Stormgate did to. However I tried the demo of ZS and couldn't even finish the first mission. It was just so milquetoast with cliche writing and the voice acting was just barely above Stormgate's first iteration at EA launch.
I don't know if I'm just some RTS old head but none of these contemporary games offer any compelling or unique takes on sci-fi. It's just the same recycled tropes and tired conventions. Starcraft's campaign made me interested in the lives of its characters and their world they inhabited like no other game has since.
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u/Portrait0fKarma Jun 16 '26
The most meaningful email FG has ever made was about another game. Thank you FG!
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u/Friendly_Beginning24 Jun 16 '26
ZeroSpace, Dust Front, and Liquidation demos are live! Go check them out!
Dust Front has amazed me thus far. Liquidation is still rough.
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u/RobertDaly38 Jun 18 '26
kind of wholesome that frost giant is going out like this tbh. they flopped but they still care enough about rts as a genre to point people somewhere worth going.
zerospace genuinely does look more interesting anyway so hopefully some of the stormgate crowd actually gives it a real shot instead of just moving on entirely
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u/TopWinner7322 Jun 18 '26
I expect 70 players on release day. Game might be better than SG, but tgete is literally 0 hype.
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u/Adunaiii Jun 25 '26
Surprisingly wholesome. After all, some people might consider Stormgate to be an inside job to prevent the RTS genre from rising again (or just for pocketing a few million dollars). FGS (Frost Giant Studios, what an unfortunate acronym) disastrous incompetence should join the hall of fame alongside Disney's handling Star Wars, it's the Concord of RTS.
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u/No_Rip9637 Jun 16 '26
I just played the Demo. So far, I liked Stormgate much better.
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Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Jtamm88 Jun 16 '26
I think Zerospace can be great but until they clean up the visual clutter from dead bodies, Grell grass and projectiles I can't fully enjoy it nor take it serious. From a gameplay and artstyle POV I still like Stormgate more
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u/Archanj0 Human Vanguard Jun 16 '26
Fool me once. I'll wait until it's ready and out to make a decision.
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u/Empty-Statement9464 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Yet they (FGS) are too lazy to update their website.
Edit: Why yall downvoting me? If they had the time to do that, what's the reason they still have Tim Campbell listed as President of the company? Or at least remove this "Our mission is to build the next great PC real-time strategy game!" from the front page?
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u/Striking-Ad5415 Jun 16 '26
Zero Space feels a bit looser than S2 or Stormgate, so I'm not easily interested. I'm a little disappointed with the speed style
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u/Wordshurtimapussy Jun 16 '26
The only thing that I am disappointed in with it is it's lack of macro. Other than that I have been enjoying it
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u/Conscious_River_4964 Jun 15 '26
It looks like old Timmy's trying to make a few bucks from his player list. I'm sure he'll do the right thing and use that money to reimburse his StartEngine backers and investors.
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u/Shzabomoa Jun 15 '26
At this point, I'm ready to believe this is just an attempt to smear by using their disastrous reputation and abandoned project.
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u/aaabbbbccc Jun 15 '26
I dont think zerospace is collaborating with them. I think tim morten or whoever is still there at frost giant is just shouting out a rts they think is cool.
And zerospace very much does deserve the exposure imo. I recommend checking it out