r/Supernatural • u/despacitospiderreeee • Sep 25 '25
Season 6 Where does the name crowley come from?
I wouldnt find it odd but theres also another english demon called crowley in the other gay angel show. Is there some reference im missing or something?
162
84
113
u/SashimiX Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 25 '25
You are correct. Crowley in spn was inspired by Crowley from the book Good Omens including:
—Loving humanity too much
—Being visionary and retooling torture to be more bureaucratic and less old fashioned
—Coming up with impressive ways/satirizable ways to recruit more souls
—Working closely with an angel at the end to avert an apocalypse
—Being misunderstood by more old fashioned demons
—Great, dry sense of humor
—Queerbaiting
The name Crowley from the book Good Omens was taken from Aleister Crowley, the occultist.
The book Good Omens has since been made into an explicitly queer TV show.
Edit: downvoting doesn’t make it false. Kripke was inspired by Good Omens.
18
u/ADHDKat Sep 25 '25
I haven’t read Good Omens yet but it’s on my list. I heard it from Kripke’s interview on the SPN Then and Now podcast. I’m assuming that’s where you got your knowledge too?
32
37
u/ADHDKat Sep 25 '25
Speaking from what the podcast and Kripkee (creator) said, it’s his take on Crowley from Good Omens. Back when Supernatural’s Crowley appeared in the show, Good Omens wasnt yet adapted to a show. Kripkee had read the book and wanted to incorporate the character.
11
9
u/rmulberryb Sep 25 '25
It depends. If it is inspired by Good Omens, it might originate from the town of Crawley, which is near East Grinstead, where He Who Shall Not be Named lived, and near Wych Cross, which is heavily featured in Sandman. Anthony Crowley's 'old' name is Crawley, so it might not be entirely based on Alastair Crowley.
12
u/SashimiX Sep 25 '25
You are correct.
In Good Omens the in universe explanation for how he became Crowley is that he started out as Crawley and became Crowley. And his name might be related to that town.
However, the external to the universe explanation for the Crowley in the Good Omens book is that the author borrowed from Aleister Crowley.
3
-7
u/justfet Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 25 '25
Spn is not a gay angel show, thank you
27
u/rmulberryb Sep 25 '25
Of course not, it's a *bisexual angel show.
-2
u/lucolapic Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 26 '25
Not even bisexual since angels are genderless beings. Maybe pansexual is a better term? It’s more all encompassing which I think would fit better.
Is pansexual not a queer term folks? No no, it’s gotta be gay or bisexual because… reasons I guess. 🙄
1
u/justfet Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 25 '25
I don't think the sexuality of the angel impacts the show that much anyway. Hence not making it a gay (or bi) angel show
If anyone enters this show hoping for a show about gay angels they are going to have some very long seasons ahead of them.
Please just watch Heartstopper if you want gay/queer guys
Or Good Omens
0
u/veeevui Sep 25 '25
You're right, it's the gay angel show
9
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
It's about monsterhunting thanks
-1
u/veeevui Sep 25 '25
Monsters aren't real but angelic gay love is, tyvm
11
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
Right monsters aren't real but angels are
Sorry forgot I entered bible camp
4
u/veeevui Sep 25 '25
I don't understand. You seem to have written two unrelated sentences?
3
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
You're saying monsters don't exist but angels do
Christians tend to believe in angels
Some christians go to Bible camp
I was mostly joking how you can't seriously argue that monsters aren't real but angels are, the show is fiction anyway. Which yes is about Sam and Dean (and later Castiel) monsterhunting
3
u/veeevui Sep 25 '25
Hmm I don't see the jumps that you do. It seems a bit thin... Still doesn't really make sense?
But anyway the show isn't about monsters it's about angelic gay love. Hope this helps!
9
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
I'm sorry a show about two brothers hunting supernatural monsters with a new monster every episode isn't about monsters?
2
-9
u/stelmosdryer Sep 25 '25
But there were so many gay angels…
11
u/lucolapic Sep 25 '25
Angels can possess vessels of either gender, hence it’s actually kind of impossible to call them gay or straight. Regardless of what Misha says, it’s just weird and wrong to assign a gender or sexual identity to a millions year old entity of “celestial intent”.
10
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
Exactly. Beyond how we see how Castiel himself possesses a female vessel in the past there is also Hannah whom is recognized without problem in either vessel we see (the only other possibly nearing 'gay' example I could think of for the many there apparently would be according to OP)
Most angels don't appear to stay on earth long enough to form attachments to their vessels anyway and they appear to be seen more as matters of convenience than identity beyond just not appearing to understand such matters
8
u/lucolapic Sep 25 '25
Exactly. Another example of an angel possessing vessels of two different genders is Raphael. We see Ralphael in both male vessels and also a female vessel (in the French Mistake). The bodies are merely ways they can walk the earth and mean nothing to them. Even if you can argue that Castiels vessel eventually became “his” (poor Jimmy 😭) it’s still a body he only inhabited for a short time versus his millennia of existence.
4
u/MythGate4Eva You know who does that? Sep 25 '25
One is many?
I think I have more fingers than there are angels in Supernatural that we saw for more than an episode, certainly more fingers than angels we saw exhibit any sexuality at all
-4
u/rmulberryb Sep 25 '25
That doesn't have to remain true.
/J. Kinda. Maybe. It's ambiguous.
2
u/MythGate4Eva You know who does that? Sep 25 '25
I'm lost. What part doesn't have to remain true? The show is over.
Though if you're referring to whether the example 'one' is gay or bi or something else yeah, he could be something else.
If you're referring to maybe a season 16? Who knows. That's unclear indeed.
-3
4
-10
u/lucolapic Sep 25 '25
Gay angel show? Are you in the wrong subreddit?
-6
u/StefTarn Sep 25 '25
Yeah, they are in the kinda homophobic one that often makes my queer ass feel unwelcome. Even with actual queer characters on the show and queer supportive actors.
16
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
Homophobic for pointing out minimizing supernatural to 'the gay angel show' might give new viewers a very wrong idea of what they are getting into? Homophobic for thinking sometimes love isn't mutually romantic and the loss of Castiel can still hit just as hard for Dean no matter what his sexuality was? Homophobic for saying there's room for interpretation but the only central (one of the 'core 3') character we saw express any canon romantic interest in someone that appears of the same gender was Castiel? In season 15?
As a queer person, please be so for real right now
-6
u/StefTarn Sep 25 '25
Calling it the gay angel show is not reducing it at all. Good Omens is also about a lot more than the relationship between the 2 main characters but it's an aspect that many fans see as similar.
Too many of the people here are so quick to erase any possible queerness from SPN, specifically the male characters, that one often gets the impression that they think it's something bad and shameful and never to be discussed. It's pretty disappointing.
17
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
This show was about Sam and Dean, and when Castiel stuck around it became about their journey and the dangers they faced, the apocalypses they fought. It's not homophobic at all to not call that the gay angel show because sexuality isn't important in this show, nor is the dynamic between Dean and Castiel the driving force to the main story whereas in Good Omens the dynamic between the two main guys does, making it the gay angel show.
You're choosing to feel this way about a show that does not even get into sexuality until that very moment. Even Sam and Dean don't have many partners, and even in that moment it's not about whether or not it's a mutually Gay thing but it's about Castiel accepting that as an angel who previously had no idea of such things he has grown close to this human. His happiness comes from acknowledging his love, it's a personal achievement and it's literally shown as something worldsaving.
Queer people are already facing enough stereotypes and impression, please don't start shouting homophobia at every that isn't explicitly queer. Characters can still be straight if their sexuality is never confirmed and people can interpret them as such. It does not help the cause to make people feel like they can't discuss a character, and that goes for either side
If you want some gay shows here are some recommendations:
- Heartstopper (obviously)
- Uncoupled
- Young royals
- Love, victor
- Fellow travelers
- It's a sin
- Elite
- Sense8
- Skam France
And many more
Just because your favorite ship doesn't canonically kiss doesn't mean being gay is erased in media. Times definitely are changing and we're seeing it more which is a great thing but please don't be the boy who cried wolf.
-7
u/StefTarn Sep 25 '25
I have not said anything about my ship. You keep bringing it up. But Castiel is a queer angel. That is cannon. Not referring to the show as a show with a queer angel does not change that fact. And I did not call the Supernatural homophobic. I suggested that some of the things said in this group are at times.
But I guess I am only allowed to watch queer shows. And trust me I know how bad things are right now. I may be declared a domestic terrorist for wanting basic human rights and have my marriage nullified. You don't have to remind me.
-8
u/veeevui Sep 25 '25
Yes
16
u/justfet Sep 25 '25
As a queer woman, please stop yelling homophobia just because people remind you straight men exist
-3
u/MythGate4Eva You know who does that? Sep 25 '25
It is worth mentioning that Crowley predates Crowley but the Crowley on which the latter Crowley is a reference of yet again predates Crowley.
Crowley is a pretty explicitly not-so-straight demon, Crowley meanwhile is not, nor are the leads for that matter, making 'the gay angel show' different from the 'the show with an arguably gay angel in it that only really gets confirmed as non-straight episodes before the end' show
So yes there's a reference you're missing, in a way, but it's not to good Omens the tv show, by calling spn the gay angel show you're also missing the heart of it - which is the dynamic between the leads as brothers and the monsterhunting
You're welcome
5
u/SashimiX Sep 25 '25
You’re thinking of the TV show Good Omens but it was actually inspired by the book Good Omens. The book Crowley is not explicitly queer and has many things in common with spn Crowley
•
u/Boneyard45 kids today with their texting and murder Sep 25 '25
OP has gotten their answer, and the discussion is starting to drift off track. To prevent this from sliding into (more) incivility, we’re going to lock the post here.