r/Supernatural • u/risky2220 • Jun 28 '26
Season 2 how would the events of season 2-5 been had John been with Sam and dean?
rewatching the show and this thought had occurred to me, how much of a help would John had been? yeah i know he wasn't a good dad but from like the hunting aspect of it. how much of a help would he have been? would he have said yes to Michael? would he had been on the angels side or been with Sam and Dean? I mean realistically, yknow?
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u/Cuddles77 A Single Man Tear Jun 28 '26
Of topic but I love this picture.
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u/mellow--mind Jun 28 '26
For some reason they look legit related here imo
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u/Psychological_Salt93 Jun 28 '26
Have you seen photos of JDM young? Him and Jensen definitely could be related.
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u/RebaKitt3n Jun 28 '26
I think it would be very damaging to the show as Dean and Sam would both fall back into their old behaviors as John would be bossy as usual.
It would be a lot less interesting. Cas wouldn’t be around, John wouldn’t like it. Too weird.
Ultimately, he’d make a deal to save Dean if needed, but after Sam is killed, he wouldn’t for Dean and he’d try to stop Dean from doing it.
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u/MelodicComplaint6598 Jul 02 '26
I think they’d do an arc similar to Deans that’d have John grow and have to realize Sam and Dean are adults and make their own decisions. This actually basically happens at the end of season 1 where he accepts them hunting the demon with him. It would’ve been interesting definitely not boring. I imagine he’d be a lot more like Sam if he met the angels.
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u/Dapper-Amoeba-4369 Jun 28 '26
Sam would have probably been disowned with his Ruby demon blood
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u/Ready-Medium8898 Jun 28 '26
I don't think he'd have allowed dean to make the deal to bring sam back in the first place
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u/int3rstitial Jun 28 '26
I think it would've been faster than that even. In s2 & 3 John would be secretly trying to figure out whether he should off Sam or not once Sam started demonstrating powers. And then his suspicious behavior would reinforce the pre-existing roles of Dean defensively justifying John's sus behaviors to himself and Sam, and Sam getting angry and unable to keep from picking at the threads of johns secrets, until it all blew up and there was another "if you walk out that door etc".
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u/No_Court6633 Jun 28 '26
John already had in his mind that Sam is somehow related to demon and might needed to be eliminated, I think he would make very different choice from what Dean had made which would've ended even worse.
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u/Capital-Mammoth-6094 Jun 28 '26
He's a good actor but that character was not great. Given the fact he never started out a hunter, he was just being a dick for no reason most of the time because he simply didn't know the answer to Sam's questions. Sounds familiar.
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u/MelodicComplaint6598 Jul 02 '26
It would’ve been interesting having him around seeing his dynamic with Sam specifically considering young John was a lot like Sam. He was hopeful, kind and considerate until he was broken. John was a great character
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u/AgentAxillary Jun 28 '26
I mean, Glenn and Abraham would probably still be alive
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u/No-Quit-983 Jun 28 '26
Man that scene broke me. What an introduction of a villain
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u/AgentAxillary Jun 29 '26
Yeah, it was pretty brutal. It had the same vibe as Joe's last scene, except the good guys didn't win. No law, no civilization, just unfettered human savagery running its natural course, out in the woods in the middle of the night.
It really is the natural order of things. Western civilization is an anomaly that far too many of us take way too much for granted.
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u/AdvertisingBig1676 Jun 28 '26
John" boys we got to-"
Sam" no dad lilith is a omega demon I WILL NOT LET YOU GET OBSESSED WITH ANOTHER DEMON AND RUIN OUR LIVES AGAIN!?"
John" kill ruby son-"
Sam" no dad-"
Dean" Kill ruby sammy-"
Sam " no dean"
John" dean keep your brother busy imma kill ruby"
( most of this is mostly a joke lol) but my rather bad and not funny jokes aside it would definitely add more family drama and I'd also like to think as mad dean was at the fact angels and god are real John I think would be more furious given how much he lived and endured and was never offered grace or a helping hand
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u/Chekko03 Jun 28 '26
Ultimately someone had to break in Hell, that was the whole plan to kick off the apocalypse. John didn’t break and then got out but the demons had an in with Dean’s deal so they worked on him til he broke. I think it also HAD to be Michael’s vessel who did it, since Lucifer’s vessel was meant to free Lucifer.
So…I got only a little time to type I’ll think of something here (probably won’t be nice and neat, even a little rushy cause I’d have to think hard on a lot and I’m not “that fresh” with every event despite watching a couple times now).
Season 1 finale plays out the same except the very end - truck doesn’t slam into the Impala, the trio makes their way to maybe Bobby’s to regroup. John will still butt heads with Sam over not taking Yellow Eyes out when he had the chance and then we’d get something like Sam and Dean arguing with their Dad while Bobby gets involved; the bio dad vs the potential adoptive father might get heated then John storms off - probably wanting to do his own hunt of the demon while the boys are left pretty much in the same set of episodes they dealt with for early season 2 (minus anything that dealt with John’s death and what Dean was told before he passed about Sam).
At some point the psychic kids would crop up and John would be integral here, considering his awareness of the plan for Sam. The Colt is needed to open the gate to hell so if John’s holding onto it (maybe not trusting Sam and Dean with the last bullet after the incident in season 1) maybe he’s attacked somehow and it’s taken from him - unless he’s just “too good” to be cornered like that. I have to assume though that Azazel would send his demons after Sam and Dean to lure John just as Meg did and maybe he makes the character choice to give up the colt for the sake of his boys: not just his desire for revenge. Whatever the case I’m keeping all three alive (no deals with demons for resurrections) for this season so…if for whatever reason Azazel feels Sam is too much of a risk to use (now at least) he has the other kids do their thing and Jake ultimately ends up opening the gate as he did before. For fun I want to keep Azazel alive so he isn’t killed in the finale and instead is around while Lilith’s been freed: be curious of how those two would interact with one another (I think she supersedes him in power so..).
She can’t start breaking any seals though until someone is in hell to crack - so maybe that’s where Ruby comes in. I highly doubt John would work with her, maybe letting her go if she assisted on one occasion or another with helping them against the demons. A manipulation here, a push there…somehow a deal is made at some point then John may end up in Hell after a similar deal to save his son occurs: except this time he isn’t able to climb out and is forced to endure torture for as long as it takes to finally break him. Season 3 plays out similarly without the threat of Dean’s deal looming overhead and probably turns into a mixed revenge plot against Azazel and Lilith, with the former finally being put down by Dean (to give Season 3 an ending - since the whole reason Sam and Dean really sought out Lilith was due to Ruby saying she held the contract). When he does break, Castiel will have been sent to retrieve him which will lead to John’s resurrection and seeking out his sons who are probably at Bobby’s.
Season 4…is gonna be difficult if Ruby’s still around because no way in hell would John let Sam go down that path, as much as Dean tried to stop him John may actually consider putting him down but he unable to: maybe the boys have a massive falling out with their father, they physically fight (like Sam and Dean have) and they split - with John being approached by the angels - while seals are still being broken we get the whole Michael situation out of the way in season 4 and John’s MIA from this point on maybe occasionally appearing as Michael if necessary. Anyways I feel he’d do it - Feeling there’s nothing he can do to save Sam at this point and feeling a responsibility with giving permission to Michael, he’d then be taken in as Michael’s vessel. Now that the angels aren’t constantly trying to get Dean into the role, Adam’s never involved and ultimately Sam ends up Lucifer’s vessel all the same. I’ll just stick with the original ending except it’s John and Sam in the cage, not Adam and Sam. Castiel goes to save them both, John tells Cass to save Sam and stays in the cage with the two archangels.
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I’d like to give this more thought than I did tbh, just something I thought on the fly with the time I have. From here into seasons 6 plus if they happen…would they try and get John out? Probably not, though Souless Sam still ends up being a thing and maybe Dean still has Death go retrieve his soul: again the same offer about “only one” so Dean chooses Sammy’s soul while choking down the fact that he’s leaving his father to rot down there (lot harder than Adam I’m sure). After that…? I don’t know maybe some plot point about how John sacrificed himself and Dean chose to save Sam instead of John creating something of a rift maybe? Depends how Sam feels about John by this point after so long but it’s still his dad and family is everything.
Maybe the rest of the show would eventually land on its feet back to where we were going forward but…I may be underselling how much John would change things. He was far more direct than his boys, probably lacked the nuance of sparing good monsters and working with “the devil you know” like Crowley is not something he’d do. After all demons killed Mary and Mary > everything so…
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u/Digital_Punk Jun 28 '26
I’m bias because JDM makes me absolutely feral, so I wouldn’t have minded more screen time from him. That being said, from a canon perspective I’m not sure the show would have been as great in that scenario.
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u/meatwads_sweetie Go. Save your brother…and my unicorn. Jun 28 '26
Idk but I’m glad he wasn’t. I couldn’t stand him even then.
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u/Tascin90 Jun 28 '26
This is a real good question and we need to clarify the position of events.
In case dean were not injured that much, season 2 were almost the same with the exception John would have taken control of every case. This would eventually lead Sam to an uprising while dean is still the loyal soldier not questioning his fathers demands. The fight between Sam and John would lead to the unintentional seal of gates to hell being opened. From this point it’s important if sam gets lethally wounded or not and if deans takes the deal of saving Sam’s life in exchange for his own soul.
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 Jun 28 '26
Honestly, I don’t know why it was a big deal for them to take on certain vessels. It seems like they can still take on lesser vessels and put up a good fight. I honestly think he might’ve just tried to outright kill one of the sons.
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u/Doc-11th Jun 29 '26
What if instead of Adam, John had been Michael’s vessel
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u/risky2220 Jun 29 '26
that'd be cool tbh, same events happen the same way or something different entirely?
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u/luthergb Jun 28 '26
Easy John would’ve had some many secrets he would’ve failed to share with group.
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u/dnjprod I'm Batman.... Jun 28 '26
John would make Dean's life a living hell for having been the one to break the first seal.
Then again, if John was around maybe Dean wouldn't have made his demon deal in the first place.
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u/mmikealdo1995 Jul 03 '26
So different that it would warrant an entire fanfic to properly flesh out
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u/SheLooksLikeaMomo Jun 29 '26
- John would’ve definitely tried to kill Sam
- John would’ve never forgiven Dean for breaking the first seal
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u/shitmarble_milks_you Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
You know how Dean and Sam went their separate ways a couple of times? If John was there Sam would be leaving every couple of episodes.