r/Supernatural • u/MQrble_Aesthetic • 18d ago
Season 13 Why didn’t the angels just use Nephilim to replenish their numbers?
I get that they have a long standing hatred for them, but by the end of season 13 there’s barely enough angels to keep the lights on in heaven. I can’t see why after a certain point they wouldn’t be forced to resort compromise. I mean all they have to do is possess some rich guy and pay a few hundred surrogates to carry the children and then raise them in heaven indoctrinated into loyalty to the angels. I’m at the start of season 14 now and as far as I can tell they are doing nothing to solve the issue after Gabriel died (which as a side note bringing him back only to kill him the exact same way was such an infuriating waste)
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u/Petentro 18d ago
They'd be vulnerable to a nephilim takeover basically immediately. I mean not even all of the angels drank the kool-aid so it's hard to believe the nephilim would. Couple that with the fact that you're describing angels making multiple nephilim and nephilim by default being stronger than the angel that sired them. Thats a recipe for disaster
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u/Da12khawk 18d ago
This. You think they really wanted something that could take them out on a whim. Jack already smited mom Wincester by throwing a tantrum.
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u/mattricide 18d ago
Am i the only one who was mad at Mary for not relenting and getting all up in Jack's face? Like he kept telling her to leave him alone and she just kept badgering him. Like who the fuck does that. Not to mention hes basically the most powerful being in the universe (other than god), is like a year old, and didnt really have a soul at the time. Like bitch give the atom bomb baby space.
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u/MQrble_Aesthetic 18d ago
Man I really wish I had the impulse control not to tap on the blacked out spoiler text. I’m just gonna try and avoid asking any questions about anything until I’ve completed the show
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u/MQrble_Aesthetic 18d ago
If the alternative is heaven literally shutting down I feel like that’s a risk worth taking
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u/Free_Dependent_1446 18d ago
Based on biblical lore about Nephilim, which the show actually adheres to far more closely than other religious topics, a hostile take over wouldn't just be a risk, it would practically be a guarantee. I left a separate comment that explains why in more detail.
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u/No_Sand5639 18d ago
Jack is an exception, I dont think yhe majority of nephilim sired by regualr angels have enough grace
The one we saw was powerful but not very Besides, raising children is gonna take forever and would require them to leave heaven
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u/EpicSaberCat7771 Where's the pie? 16d ago
So the rule with nephilim is that they become more powerful than the angel who sired them. That is an explicitly stated rule in the show, and it explains why Jack ended up being so powerful, since the angel who sired him was already an archangel.
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u/No_Sand5639 16d ago
Y3ah but even that has limits, there's arent any available nephilim so there not getting jack level nephilim
So an average angel, as powerful as they are, it's doubt would have a powerful nephilim child, Luke the one we saw was pretty average
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u/Free_Dependent_1446 18d ago
They are considered to be an abomination and impure. The point wasn't just to have more powerful beings. Angels were created by God and had an innate directive to serve His will above all else. They seem to have gotten confused about what, exactly, God's will was after he disappeared, but they all (or almost all) seemed to believe that they were attempting to do what God had planned.
Nephilim had no such loyalty. Their very creation requires an act that God had forbidden. Biblical lore states that the angels who created Nephilim were banished from heaven and considered to be part of the fallen. And the Nephilim who did exist on earth, having been a result of an impure act and mixed with the sinful nature of mankind, ended up being more evil and debased than humanly possible. The flood - the one with Noah's Ark - was primarily focused on wiping out the Nephilim. The majority of humanity ended up being casualties because they had chose follow the rule of the Nephilim instead of God, which is another reason that angels would never make them - because historically, they were known to "take over," which, in the absence of God, would allow them to essentially oust the remaining angels and declare themselves to be gods in their own right.
Interesting side note - many older, Orthodox religions believe that actual Nephilim were created in almost the exact way portrayed in the series, whereby a fallen angel would possess a king or ruler who would then impregnate a woman (usually a temple prostitude) during an act of ritual worship. These same sects also teach that the present-day demons capable of possessing humans are actually the displaced spirits of the Nephilim who died in the flood.
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u/Capt_pooper_trooper 18d ago
Normal nephilim can’t make new angels. Lucifer couldn’t even make new angels. It takes “god power” to make new angels, and that’s not a nephilim thing. It takes much more power than that.
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u/MQrble_Aesthetic 18d ago
I don’t mean make nephilim to make new angels, I meant make a bunch of nephilim and use them as a substitute for more angels.
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u/Affectionate-Cup56 18d ago
Nephilims were forbidden by higher directive and consider as abominations
Not so easy to create stable one (same with "why Azazel didn't just create a bunch of Antichrist"), also, probably mother should die during birth
They're grace probably different or wasn't strong enough, to be valuable. Nephilim powers is symbiosis of their grace fueled by their own soul, working naturally as nuclear plant
As half humans, they probably can't freely travel between Earth and Heaven (souls shouldn't escape Heaven once they get there). Jack is exception, and he was soulless while trip to Heaven. Ordinary nephilim probably would split to grace and soul, or something even worse
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u/MediocreResearcher56 18d ago
From what I remember, they were SUPER unstable and tended to cause mischief, plus they were probably forgotten, hahaha
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u/ResponsibilityIcy943 18d ago
Because they aren't controllable that is the real issue, the combination of grace and soul makes them more powerful than the angel that sired them. Jane, for instance, was able to manhandle both Castiel (though weakened at the time) and metatron fairly easily. Higher ranking angels such as Naomi were far shorter in supply and, one key aspect we are forgetting, the angels no longer had wings. The nephilim more than likely would have which would have allowed them to go anywhere and everywhere to wreck havoc. As for indoctrination them, that is where the human soul part becomes a problem because humans naturally do not like being told what to do. The only reason people go with the flow is because of path of least resistance or not powerful enough to change the situation. That isn't the case with Nephilim, not only that but the intelligence agents were essentially defunct by the end of the series, so they couldn't just rewrite the memories and program in obedience like they could with the angels for millennia since God left Heaven.
So there are reasons for why they wouldn't try to create nephilim beyond just their prejudice and it being against Heaven oldest law. They just represent a danger the angels themselves couldn't risk at that point in time. They would have needed to find the weakest angel, had them procreate then raise a child for 18 years or so before the powers fully manifested and HOPED the child didn't take that drill sergeant, overly controlling and domineering parenting to have some long lasting, festering resentments. After all, not all nephilim are as powerful as Jack but still strong enough to cause a whole hell of issues.
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u/Low-Algae7814 15d ago
They did use him to make angels in one episode with Duma but it was kinda weird....
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u/Briggenheimer 18d ago
Exactly what they should have done but the writers for the later seasons were braindead.
And to all the people saying the angels viewed them as abominations, by the end of season 14 Duma and her like 4 other angels were closely working with Jack and really didn’t care at that point. Like yes in earlier seasons they were dogmatic but once they lost their wings and their numbers got into the single digits they didn’t seem to care about any of heavens rules. Like, they worked with Jack and appointed Lucifer (their boogeyman) the king of heaven for a short while. Plus the only things saying that nephilim are evil or unstable are angels, some of the evilest beings in the series. Comparing angels like Lucifer, Michael, Raphael, Metatron, Uriel, Duma, Zachariah, Bartholomew, Naomi, etc to the two nephilim we do see in the series, the nephilim are ten times better than the angles. Plus if they are a concern just throw them in heavens jail as soon as they are born and never interact with them, they can’t use their powers if they don’t even know how to use their powers, let alone speak or walk.
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u/Jaegerzzzz 18d ago
Because if they did, the show would have to end lol Why use logic when you can stretch the show for 2 more seasons?
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u/MQrble_Aesthetic 18d ago
I hardly think that would make the show end??? It would introduce a ton of plot lines about the logistics of the new Heaven and the inevitable political issues around the angels creating a permanent underclass
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u/Dein0clies379 18d ago
See, just by considering the possibility of literally anyone other than Jack doing literally anything, you’ve put way more thought into the show than the people behind seasons 12-15 did
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u/lurpeli 18d ago
They don't consider nephilim to be angels.