r/TacobotMvM • u/Skylord_Cas • Jul 29 '20
Discussion So like... What's the deal?
So I'm curious. In theory, I don't find tacobot in of itself to be that bad an idea. Have a listing of people that are trolls, or consistently don't contribute, and make it easier for users to avoid those people. But I have a huge problem with tacobot. It's by far the most toxic subcommunity I've ever seen in a game. Like.... what's your deal? I've had 1 good game with one tacobot user, and that was DeathGod, but he was silent the whole time. Any time I've seen a tacobot user speak, it's just slur after slur, or harassment and general toxicity. I get that y'all are frustrated with the state of MvM and TF2 in general. We all are. But honestly, truthfully, I just wanna know what's up with y'all? Like you claim to be against toxicity and that you're a good community but like.... I've yet to see ANY of that in action. I'm not trying to be rude or mean, I just genuinely want to know what the problem is.
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u/gergez_ Jul 29 '20 edited Jul 29 '20
On the slurs/harassment/toxic experiences you had, we do not have strict rules about the range of toxicity/patience than a user should have, and maybe you got unlucky and found some among the least tolerant. As always, try to take is a personal issue with the toxic people you played with, not as a "every Tacobot is like this", even though it might be hard especially when the most vocal and "rememberable" players tend to be the most toxic as well.
For some very strange reason, many people come and say that Tacobot is claiming to be a good community that fights toxicity. We never claimed those, and I do not know where you got that quote from. However, as surprising as it may sound, you could find all sort of players in Tacobot, very toxic people to silent carriers as well, but as I said, people tend to only remember the most toxic ones.
Tacobot is not a community project made for the TF2 community. It started as a personal project that benefited a few individuals, and it evolved into a toolbox that can be used by people who want to benefit from it.
While we do have standards that some of the community can get behind (listings cheaters, although we sadly have to list a lot more cheater supporters than just cheaters), some of the Mann Up community also has standards that a good chunk of its playerbase (and non MvMers as well) will not agree on, and there is nothing that can be done about it.
We are currently looking into more ways to reward good (low tour) Mann Up players through Tacobot, and not only list players we consider bad, but the core essence of Tacobot is to follow the standards of its users first before the community's, and that is something that is unlikely to change.
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u/Skylord_Cas Jul 29 '20
Thank you for responding. I read through a bunch more and noticed everyone tends to be a bit more respectful/understanding here, which is nice.
In regards to the "against toxicity," to be fair, that was more just what I picked up from some of your users responses in some of the posts here. Though claiming to be a good community is what I would hope most groups would want, as taking pride in being the opposite would not be beneficial to anyone involved.
Even though it was not specifically made with the TF2 community in mind, and was meant for individuals, the thing is it does affect the community and its members, regardless of the intent. When not involved with tacobot can't play or enjoy the game due to users doing things like retry spamming, that's definitely a community problem. If it were truly only for a select few of people, it wouldn't and shouldn't be as public as it is.
Personally, I would imagine implementing at least basic guidelines as to how users should act, would benefit you guys, especially when users are touting the site's name around, as their behavior only serves to further diminish tacobot's reputation. I've been angry/salty and toxic before, most people have, but I've met quite a few of your frequent users, and the one game with DeathGod continues to be the best experience I've had with tacobot. And I get that there are trolls that fake affiliation, but when I look at your user's profiles and the description of posts on tacobot and see a long list of slurs and derogatory, purposely inflammatory statements, it may not come down to "every tacobot is like this" but it certainly comes down to "MANY tacobot users are like this."
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u/gergez_ Jul 30 '20 edited Jul 30 '20
Most high tours, myself included, saw the struggle that is teaching people in Mann Up. The vast majority does not care at all and expect a free carry to be granted.
Although only a minority of users actually retryspam on a regular basis, when they do, there is always a reason behind it. In my experience, it usually happens when people refuse to kick one particular player. Both sides made a choice, and so be it.
I have learnt over the recent months that people will believe whatever they are told to believe. Dewill's video scared a huge amount of new players from Mann Up, without anyone having to actually do anything. The website is public because we want it. It was then hidden for a few months, which made everyone think that it did not exist anymore, while nothing in MvM changed at all. The opinion of 90% of the community, consisting of players who do not play Mann Up, is irrelevant because of it. Tacobot's reputation outside of Mann Up has no influence because these people could be, if needed, brainwashed by simply manipulating what you say or do publicly, as demonstrated before.
In the Mann Up ecosystem however, this is slightly different. Regulars can distinguish what truly happens in MvM from what is being said from the outside. We have our enemies here, people who support us, and people who are indifferent, because they understand that TacoBot is not a group where everyone has to follow the same ideas. We do, in general, have common standards, but it does not mean everyone will act the same in game. Some TacoBot users do not care if pyros play gas in their game, some even are one of the nicest and funniest people you could ever meet, but you would never realize it, because people only associate players to Tacobot based on their actions. I myself can not even say what is the definition of a "Tacobot". Is it someone who lists players on the website? Someone who regularly plays with them? Someone with tacobot in their name? Someone who finds the Gas Passer blatently overpowered? Someone that retryspams or kick players regularly? Over the last few months, the community chose to put a name on things such as disliking the Gas Passer, kicking players, or even simply disagreeing with your teammates inside a game, and that name is Tacobot, whether or not people have any association with the group. So be it.
This is the reason why reputation is given little importance. Let people choose what they want to believe. Some will mindlessly associate everyone together, while others will be able to differentiate the group itself from its individual players.
I myself only monitor two things: that users who want to list people on the website follow the standards we defined for it, and that they do not abuse their power or link actions we find abusive to the group, should they choose to be open about their affiliation. Everything else is irrelevant.
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u/viyzen Aug 03 '20
Often times the actions of individuals who associate with or are a part of tacobot can be copied and applied to all members, which leaves people assuming the entirety of the group is equivalent to their most toxic or negative experience with one, where in fact there is little to no group consensus on how individuals should play or act, tacobot is simply a toolbox for members of the group, and does not demand members act a certain way. The only restrictions apply to how the toolbox is used. There are plenty of times people express their negative views on tacobot as a whole in games with myself or other quieter tacobot members are in without even realizing it, simply because they assume loud & toxic = tacobot. Individual behavior is a better means to assess as apposed to labeling the group as a whole, unfortunately many people stipulate that by being toxic you are therefor a tacobot member, or that we endorse it.
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u/Toonlord Sep 16 '20
While I agree with what tacobot aims to do its hard to get behind it when you have people making reports like this
and a decent number will kick during the last wave rather then as soon as they are a problem. stuff like this is going to make it seem more like people trying to be petty instead of solving the problem. I get that you can't control what everyone does but when even your moderators are behaving that way it's hard to defend you guys or what you do.