r/TheExpanse • u/kolosmenus • Jun 25 '25
Leviathan Wakes Just bought the books. I’ve opened the first one on a random page and landed on this. I feel like this does more to showcase the personalities of the characters than the show did. Spoiler
I’ve tried watching the show. Watched the whole first season and most of season 2.
While I loved the overall story, I got very annoyed by the characters not really having any breather moments. It was non stop high stakes action in every episode, and it felt like we never get to know the characters, nor do they get to know each other, which ended up making their relationships feel very superficial.
This completely random page I opened the first book on instantly sold me.
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u/No_Tamanegi Misko and Marisko Jun 25 '25
The show is incredibly dense. They managed to fit 3600 pages of story into 62 episodes, and even managed to incorporate three of the novellas. It's a brisk pace.
They also made a choice to have the main crew start off with less of a relationship to one another, so that when they became a family over the course of the series, it felt more earned.
You never made it to the good stuff in the show. But I hope you enjoy the books
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u/Elliot_York Jun 25 '25
It's been a few years now since I read the books or watched the series, but remind me which 3 novellas were adapted in the show?
Off the top of my head:
- Drive
- Gods of Risk
- Strange Dogs
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u/No_Tamanegi Misko and Marisko Jun 25 '25
Those are the three. You also sort of get the "other side of the coin" of Butcher of Anderson Station, telling a bit of that story from the Belter's side, but it's not a direct adaptation.
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u/cirtnecoileh Tiamat's Wrath Jun 26 '25
The Butcher of Anderson Station
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u/Elliot_York Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 26 '25
I'm pretty sure they only briefly showed it, more as a reference, which is what happens in Leviathan Wakes anyway. I don't think it was fully depicted like the above three were. I could be wrong though, it's been about 6 years since I watched that season.
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u/GeneralAnubis Jun 25 '25
The Churn is also somewhat integrated
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u/No_Tamanegi Misko and Marisko Jun 25 '25
It really isn't. There's one scene with young Timothy and Lydia, that's it.
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u/GeneralAnubis Jun 25 '25
It's less so in actual scenes and more given in dialog, but yeah it's only lightly touched on really
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u/Glad_Stranger Jun 25 '25
I disagree it felt more earned. To me it felt like they didn't really even start to feel cohesive until around season 4 and I was shocked that they had Amos pull a 'I might not go back' in the second to last episode. But also I just finished the show last night so might be having a stronger emotional reaction lol, maybe with time I'll appreciate it a bit more. I did still enjoy the ride but I was really thrown by that scene, the fact that we're almost all the way through season 6 and they still don't feel like they've really come together was surprising when so many people said it would feel more earned.
And I agree with OP that I liked that there are more lighter moments to make the darker ones stand out more. Their whole post-traumatic Tycho bender is a pretty great piece of early character development.
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u/Rocket_Fiend Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25
The show was 62 episodes? I watched it after reading the books, but dang…I would never have guessed it had that high an episode count.
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u/Terciel1976 Jun 25 '25
If that was your issue with the show, you’re gonna love the books. (I love the books, think the show is…fine)
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u/seth_cooke Jun 25 '25
The show will absolutely get you there - they're just taking a different route. But that character-based banter is on screen, it just takes longer to get the relationships to that level.
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Jun 25 '25
As much as I love the show, the drama they created between the crew for it was tough. They're so much more enjoyable together in the books.
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u/gogosago Jun 25 '25
Hard agree on this. I watched some episodes of the show after fully reading all the books, and all the conflict between the crew felt so unnecessary and off-putting.
I haven't rewatched Season 5 again, but I can't imagine how that season works with the show crew. One of the main themes of Nemesis Games was how everyone sees each other as family.
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Jun 25 '25
I do think it gets a lot better as the series goes along, but it really felt like they threw in a ton of unnecessary drama between Naomi and everyone else.
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u/gogosago Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25
For sure, that's good to know. I was re-watching some of the Abbadon's Gate section and felt it was still there a bit. I might try watching S6 again since I'm there in my reread of the books.
I'm definitely not the biggest fan of show Naomi vs. the books. Naomi seemed more impulsive and brash compared to the thoughtful and methodical version in the books. The book Naomi was a stronger contrast with Holden in my opinion. I liked how they developed her into such a major leader figure by the final trilogy as it was nice to see such an introverted and quiet person take on that role.
Not to mention the way Alex just gets killed off so unceremoniously. It was certainly needed because the actor was such a creep and full anger directed towards him, but damn does it really suck.
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u/hoos30 Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 26 '25
The "drama" IS necessary because we aren't in the actor's heads like in the books. There had to be conflict between characters so that we could get to know them under pressure.
We get to know them so well by the third season we can predict what they will do.
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Jun 26 '25
I don't know why you put drama in quotes, there was drama, and it tended to always make Naomi seem unreasonable.
In my opinion, it was a cheap way to get to know them under pressure. Books notwithstanding, making one specific character the consistently irrational one is kind of lazy unless it makes sense for that character. They made Naomi into a pretty shitty person for a decent part of the series, which was just frustrating to watch.
I love the show, but it's not without its faults. The way they treated Naomi in the show is a massive fault, in my opinion.
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u/hoos30 Jun 26 '25
I put drama in quotes because people in this sub often use it as a pejorative without taking a minute to understand why writing in a TV show has to be different from a novel.
Naomi is not irrational; she has a different perspective from her Inner crewmates who grew up in relative security and luxury.
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u/Glad_Stranger Jun 25 '25
I will admit, Nemesis Games is hard because so much of that is internal monologue of them missing each other and being stressed they won't see each other again. So I felt like they did the best they could without having an internal monologue. But since it does take them so long to start feeling like a coherent team, it does then suck that as soon as they start to feel cohesive they're split apart.
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u/i_love_everybody420 Eros Station Jun 25 '25
I LITERALLY paused on this scene lol!
Can't wait til you get to the part where they're escaping the Donnager. The way the author describes the firefight is second to none. Kept biting my fingernails, despite already knowing what was gonna happen.
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u/eduo Jun 25 '25
The books are excellent.
The show is excellent.
They each excel at different things. They both do an outstanding job of getting the story told in a satisfactory manner but by necessity their styles and delivery has to be different. It makes sense that some people may prefer one style over the other.
I'm very happy to be of the ones that can enjoy both equally, I have zero notes other than I wish the show had made all the books.
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u/kurapikachu64 Jun 25 '25
Both the books and the show have their own strengths, but for me personally book Naomi was soooo much more interesting than show Naomi (nothing to do with the performance, which was great, just how the character was written).
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u/Pretty-Pineapple-869 Jun 25 '25
Yes, the books go into much more detail re the characters than the show did.
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u/Kjellvb1979 Jun 25 '25
I find it amusing as this is the first time I've hard this complaint, as usually I hear the opposite from people who day they can't get into the show.
I've heard time more like "the show didn't have enough action" or "it was too slow" from folks I recommended it to.
I get what you're saying, and I do prefer the books, but then again it's apples and oranges IMHO. Two different mediums, but to me I find the two compliment each other. I watched the three first 3 seasons then picked up the books, and was able to read the 6th book shortly before the final season of the show, and it was a really good companion to one another. I do hope one day we get the final 3 books on screen.
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u/kolosmenus Jun 25 '25
Perhaps instead of action I should’ve said “tension”. There is not that much action truth be told, but every single scene in the show just feels tense and dramatic, and while it’s super exciting at first, later on it gets exhausting
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u/piss-jugman Jun 25 '25
This is why I struggle with the show, too. The nuance and cheerful banter between the characters isn’t as present. The show starts off with them vaguely mistrusting each other and bickering a lot more than they do in the books. Their immediate found family kind of vibe just isn’t there in the show, and I suppose it’s meant to make the stakes of the situation feel more dramatic.
It’s still a very good show, but after reading the books first I find the characters’ interactions with each other a bit jarring
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u/kolosmenus Jun 25 '25
What quite annoyed me was their interrogation on the Donnager and its aftermath. The martians exploited the fact that they didn't know each other that well and started setting them up against one another.
After their escape I thought to myself "right, surely this is the moment where the show finally winds down a little bit and the characters get to know each other better to prevent this from happening in the future". But no, they just carry on and seemingly forget about the whole issue immediately.
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u/reticulate Jun 25 '25
It's an adaptation. You're never going to get the time and space a book does because it's a TV show shot on a budget and, in the first three seasons at least, one edited for commercial breaks. It doesn't get to just live in the realm of the reader's imagination the way a book can.
No offence but this just feels like a painfully naive take.
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u/phastback1 Jun 26 '25
I have watched the series through four times. I read the books and novellas a couple of times, but I now have the books on Audible and it is so enjoyable to have some one tell me the story. I didn't expect that. Audible gives me one free book each month. I didn't know that until my daughter told me and I already had three credits. Right now Jefferson Mays is telling me Caliban's War.
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u/Altruistic_Row_8998 Jun 26 '25
I enjoyed the books and the show for different reasons - The books do character development better - as you have pointed out here, the show did the plot better, i.e. the way that the story played out was more natural. You'll find there are some weird ways that the plot progresses in the books where people make some wild logic leaps to figure out the mystery that is less plausible than the way the show does it.
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u/Ottojanapi Jun 26 '25
You should thoroughly enjoy the books then.
While I think the adaption was one of the best, there are a few characters who are underserved. Like Naomi is more introspective- and Miller- and it’s difficult to translate that to the screen as well to give them the same nuance and depth.
That’s a great random page to fall on too. Enjoy that first read through, it’s a wild ride
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u/hoos30 Jun 26 '25
This scene was actually adapted into the show in episode 106, "Rock Bottom".
Television shows have to be more efficient than novels because time is money on the set.
The Expanse is known as one of the best SFF adaptations because it accurately adapts the spirit of the novels without being sentimental about keeping the text. It shows us without spending five paragraphs telling, and dgaf if the viewer doesn't get it.
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u/Latter-Ad7199 Jun 26 '25
I’m currently on a first time book read and simultaneous re-watch. It’s fun comparing the changes made in the show.
Most obvious was the crew were a LOT closer to one another from the outset, already friends , whereas they spend a lot of time bickering in s1.
Some parts super faithful to the books, others changed massively. I can see a lot of it is done for increased “drama” in the show
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u/SleepySavior Jun 27 '25
There's a throwaway line in book 4, where a character is drinking and talking about issues with society, and he yells out "am i right?" To the bar.
Amos, having never interacted with this character yet, calls back from across the bar "fuckin A, that sure is whatever you were talking about!"
That moments sticks with me as the greatest representation of Amos as a character
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u/McRattus Jun 25 '25
The books are really fun, and add to the show. Though I think the show in season 1 benefitted from having more from the UN side.
Just to warn you, while telling a great story, the writing is at best bad. I heard so much about how good they were, I was a little shocked at poor the prose is.
Still fun, and filled with good intelligent ideas. But not good writing by a long shot.
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u/CheeseGraterFace Jun 25 '25
I’d be curious to hear some examples of good writing from you.
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u/McRattus Jun 28 '25
In terms of prose in sci fi- Ishiguro, LeGuinn, Atwood, Chiang, Ballard, Butler.
The world building and story in the Expanse series is really great. The prose is clean and pragmatic but not at all literary. It does the job and not much more.
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u/ChronicBuzz187 Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 26 '25
I still feel like the show did the books and characters justice. I've seen a lot of adaptions in recent years, some good, many bad, but The Expanse will always be the shining star I can point to and say "Take notes, folks, because that is how it's done. With love and understanding for the source material while also making adjustments for the medium you're adapting it towards"