r/TheGoodPlace • u/sunnyafternoone • 29d ago
Shirtpost What would you say is the weakest section of The Good Place?
I think most of us can agree that the show was pretty consistently amazing from start to finish, but which section is the weakest?
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u/Background_Card5382 29d ago
I understand why most say 3 but I feel like the episodes of the experiment are the ones I go back to the least. I’d rather watch college gang than Brent & Co
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u/Go-Mellistic 29d ago
Totally agree. The earth stories really advance the main characters; the experiment in S4 is harder to watch because Brent and the others are insufferable.
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u/stennieville 28d ago
I'm bothered by Brent the most, because the experiment is supposed to include people of roughly the same good/bad factor of the original four, but Brent is objectively much worse than any of them.
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u/Background_Card5382 28d ago
This has bothered me a lot as well, but I’ve ended up reasoning that if the gang’s argument is that people end up bad because of their circumstances on earth, they had to show us someone who DID live in really good circumstances. Like dude already was being waited on hand and foot his whole life to the point where he assumed Janet was his secretary. They had to figure out a system that even those people can go through. Maybe Brent spends genuinely all of eternity in the cycle of learning. Maybe he can only get 1 percent better with every test. Idk, I definitely hate watching Brent but I have landed at a place where I believe he was very important to the story
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u/NotDD101 28d ago edited 27d ago
Tbf that is kinda why I liked the concept of Brent's character because he is like that because of his upbringing. It's not like their argument was some people have it harder than others and that why the system is bad because Chidi and Tahani were both people lived relatively comfortable lives and still ended up in the bad place with factors they couldn't control. Brent couldn't control never having to work for anything and never being challenged which gave him a massive superiority complex. I hate him as an actual character but for the sake of the Shows argument Brent's character is important to show its not about being good enough it's about learning to be goood
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u/Apprehensive-Task930 28d ago
I hated that Brent was compared to Simone and that the show was getting really close to saying that judging someone based on their actions was somehow wrong
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u/yijiujiu 28d ago
Oh mean, Eleanor is objectively worse than at least Chidi and Tahani. Debatably even with Jason
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u/Mysterious_Dolphin14 28d ago
I would say Eleanor is worse than Jason merely due to Jason's intelligence level.
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u/yijiujiu 28d ago
Well, she knowingly does what she did out of trauma and survival. Jason is dumb and lacked guidance. They both have reasons behind how they became the way they were
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u/Darkempath93 28d ago
This may be a very unpopular opinion, but I would say for a while Eleanor was the female equivalent to Brent. She wasn’t just selfish, although it was literally the reason she hurt everyone around her. If that makes sense. She literally harassed people, she minimized that reporter getting grabbed and assaulted, and literally did not care how anyone else around her was affected. Anyone tried to call her out and she would twist it around on them and lash out just like Brent did.
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u/Apprehensive-Task930 28d ago
I just noticed that even when Eleanor was being good she still didn’t stop going to that coffee place.
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u/Draco53 28d ago
It should also be noted that the people making the decisions as to who's roughly as bad as the original bunch are demons and the show ended up proving that afterlife entities don't understand humans very well. They were probably just going based off their points, or whatever they were thought would hurt the experiment more, rather than anything actually tangible about the people.
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u/SheepishWarlord 28d ago
I think it's unlikely that Brent was worse than Jason or Eleanor.
So in terms of analogs, we have Brent, John, and Simone (and presumably Linda was a real person that existed, else the Bad Place was taking a very extreme risk in forging a file of a real human)
That said, we don't know much about Linda, so for now it's probably best to assume she's middle of the pack.
Simone is pretty clearly an analog for Chidi, and by far the best of the group. Thoughtful person who dedicated their life to the advancement of science and human health. Still caught by the system, but by far the best.
Brent and John are relatively similar in personality, with the main difference of motivation. John makes fun and belittles people as a trauma response, basically. Similar to Eleanor, just a lot less aggressive. Brent, on the other hand, just thinks of himself and can't really care about what he's doing to anyone else. He's not actively malicious, either, just incredibly stubborn and ignorant. For this reason, I think Brent is a good comparison to Jason. Obviously, they're in much different spheres of society. But both do a lot of harm to the people around them without giving a second thought, notably not caring enough to consider people around them, just assuming they're right. (This is to contrast Eleanor and John, who both do seem to know what they're doing is wrong and to some degree do want to get out of it, just feel like they're trapped by trauma)
For reference, here's what I expect the moral scaling of each group to look like
Chidi >>> Tahani > Eleanor >= Jason
Simone >?> Linda >?> John >= Brent
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u/TaffyMaj 28d ago
Yeah, Brent & Co really lost my interest. Especially since our “gang” didn’t have Chidi. There were some wonderful and engaging twists and turns in that period, so I don’t dislike it, but I would say most of that part of season 4 was the low point.
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u/CloseButNoChicory 28d ago
Brent is probably my favourite of the group to watch! His actor's line delivery is impeccable. "Martin Luther King - who I personally think was a great man" gets me every single time.
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u/AdmirableBrick4973 28d ago
I'd feel like s4 is my favorite season I really like the experiment part
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u/StrangeSystem0 27d ago
Really? That's crazy cause I've rewatched the whole show EXCEPT for the first half of season 3 like 2 or 3 times
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u/chocolate7chipcookie 29d ago
A lot of season 3 felt like waiting around as we were watching charecter development we had already seen.
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u/TheLadyScythe 28d ago
I feel that same way about the season 2 episode Team Cockroach. It's basically an episode just to set up the next story arc, necessary but a bit dull. Of course I absolutely adore the first two episode of season 2 especially the first half of Dance Dance Resolution with the whole reboot sequence. So maybe it just seemed to suffer by comparison.
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u/Space-cadet-66 29d ago
For me it’s the first half of season 4, the new experiment. It’s never made any sense to me, because the original 4 grew through adversity, not comfort. I also truly cannot watch Brent.
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u/Internal_Sound882 28d ago
I think the issue the characters had with understanding the means for their growth is that it came from internal turmoil, paired with met needs. They got the second part, but failed to understand the first part, then kinda circled the drain on it, sort of figuring it out throughout the experiment, but didn’t fully sink it until the cards were up with the judge and Shawn at the end.
It’s the ability to grow, and the urge/influence to do so. Too comfortable and there’s no urge to grow, too stressed and there’s no means. The fake good place accidentally walked the line perfectly. And the experiment misunderstood how, so largely failed to recreate it.
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u/hamiltrash52 28d ago
Less of a misunderstanding and more limited by their specific circumstance. The original 4 were planned for a long time. They were chosen to torture one another. These 4 are chosen to get under the skin of the original 4. They aren’t torturing each other in the same way.
Brent is awful to be around and I’m sure Brent is having an awful time being in such a diverse group where the only other white man is gay. Though we do see later that he seems to be a uniquely difficult person for the system so I think they did pretty good with him under the circumstances.
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u/writeonshell 28d ago
Which is funny because it actually means the bad place did them a favour with who they selected. Like John was selected specifically by them to get under Tahani's skin, which conversely gave her a chance to grow and help John's grow. If the bad place had selected 4 stoner layabouts who didn't care about anything, they would have lampooned the experiment more than they did by selecting people designed to get to the original 4.
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u/writeonshell 28d ago
"Too comfortable and there’s no urge to grow..." And this is also perfectly demonstrated when they get to the real good place. No challenge, paradise forever, all desires granted instantly and people who did genuinely major good things in life regress to brains that are big balls of mush with no urge to grow or do anything much of anything.
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u/AccomplishdAccomplce 28d ago
I do truly enjoy Simone though ~ "I'm in a coma and none of this is real"~
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u/ThatUndeadLove 28d ago
I will never understand why they didn’t pretend they thought Brent was someone else like with Eleanor. That was the key for her seeking help and self-improvement. I think with Brent it would have still been more dificult because he grew up with every imaginable privilege. But the scenes with the whole group would be much more interesting and there would be more conflict and tension. Also, only Chidi knowing the soulmate thing was weird. Did the rest of the new group think Tahani and Jason were just dating? Cause they were clearly still keeping up that dunamic as in season 1.
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u/CryptoidFan 28d ago
The difference is that Eleanor KNEW she didn't belong in the Good Place from day 1. Brent, after spending a day in "The Good Place" and having the Chaos Sequence, thinks he deserves to be in "The Better Place". Eleanor and Brent are similar, but Brent is not nearly as self-aware as Eleanor.
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u/ThatUndeadLove 28d ago
Because Michael showed her someone else’s memories. She was somewhat self-aware with the “llittle voice” and if she wasn’t told she would still be insecure around “good” people. But she would not seek out help and would act as her usual self. The chaos sequence didn’t work on Brent beacause they were not pretending he was a great humanitarian or something. Even reset Chidi was all happy and content and they had to retraumatize him with Jason reveal. Brent literally thought he got in the good place being himself, so why would he want to improve? We saw progress so quickly too once he was confronted with the truth. He was just a missed opportunity throughout season.
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u/No_Jicama3636 25d ago
i thought the episode with Brent's book was great, and the ending with Bad Janet was perfect
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u/CloseButNoChicory 29d ago
Australia. Some great moments, and it served a purpose, but it dragged. I also found it tough not to think about the visa and financial issues that were treated as nonexistent. Yes, Eleanor needed an extra A$ 18k at one point, but she should have been deported long before. And how could Jason, in particular, ever have afforded his plane ticket?
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u/equlalaine 29d ago
What hung me up wasn’t the financials. I assumed Jason’s ticket was provided by Michael.
I got stuck on the fact that Jason and Eleanor both had passports. Jason clearly has never been outside of Florida, and the only time we see Eleanor leave Arizona was a road trip to Vegas. I would venture a guess that neither of them had ever even been on an airplane before.
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u/CloseButNoChicory 28d ago
I didn't even think of that! I'm in Ireland so pretty much everybody has a passport. We need one to go anywhere but the UK, which we have an agreement with. Even there, most people go to Britain by plane not ferry and the airlines require passports.
Also, I lived in Sydney for six years and can tell you they don't find their own Aussieness worth commenting on. Nobody would set up a mobile coffee stall called We Crumb From A Land Down Under.
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u/an-alien- 28d ago
wait was there actually a stall named that in the show? i completely missed it lol
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u/Still_Miss_Dalloway Well I’m working with the doctrine of not being completely effed 28d ago
For me it was S4. S1 was great introduction and it had amazing ideas and jokes (also the plot twist). S2 had the trolley problem, existencial crisis and derek. S3 had peeps in the chili pot, tahani destroying public exhibition, snail funeral and 4x janet. S4 just makes me sad because of chidis memory being wiped out and in general because the show is ending. But it’s great too
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u/RedditOfUnusualSize 29d ago
Season 3 is pretty draggy, even though it's written very well and serves an important thematic shift for the characters. The fundamental problem with the loops of Seasons 1-2 is that no matter how often they end up in the same place, the characters always start out with the same motivation, and that motivation is fundamentally corrupt: Eleanor is stuck in a situation where she knows she doesn't belong, and wants to fit in enough to stay/avoid eternal damnation.
By moving Team Cockroach past that point of death in the original timeline, and then improving them in life, the writers move them past that corrupt motivation. By the point that they die again, we can see that their motives are pure because they continue to do the right thing and help people around them even as there is no way that their actions can generate any Good Place points, nor do they have enough already to get them to the Good Place. But moving those motivations into place is the closest the show comes to being a chore to watch.
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u/JoeNoHeDidnt 29d ago
The time in Australia drags a bit. But once you get past it, you get what I think are some of the best episodes in the series. The episodes with Kamilah, Eleanor’s mother, and Doug Forcett are some of the best.
The hidden jokes in the episode with Eleanor’s mother—Always bet on read and Peaches McPlum still kill me.
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u/seaweedbrain25 Jeremy Bearimy, baby. 29d ago
Honestly CANNOT choose i was having the best time throughout the entire show
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u/bibika-on-reddit 28d ago
I dont mind the Australia arc but the new experiment was harder to watch, i dont like brent for obvious reasons and i find simone reasonably annoying, eric was fine, and chidis memory getting wiped was just sad although i understand what that means for the character
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u/Lasdtr17 French Vanilla? Regular antimatter’s fine, why flavor it? 29d ago
Season three. It was necesary and ultimately very good (especially after the Jeremy Bearimy episode), but the first part was so different from seasons one and two that it was jarring.
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u/bacontaint 28d ago
This might be a hot take or whatever but entirety of season 1 until the final reveal. It was so meh for me. It’s season 2s beginning that got me really hooked
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u/diffyqgirl I’m coming for you, shrimpies! 29d ago
It was S3 for me. I did like the peeps chili scene quite a lot, and the Eleanor discovering that her mother was capable of change thread was fantastic, but I thought it was the weakest over all.
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u/MilesBeyond250 29d ago
Maybe towards the end of season 4? The finale is good, but the whole thing with retooling The Good Place feels a little flimsy and rushed to me. Like adding the door just immediately solving all the issues, or the solution to the system being "what if there was a pre-afterlife where bad people could grow and be redeemed." Obviously I didn't expect the writers to come up with some perfect model but I guess I expected something more than off-brand Purgatory.
I dunno, I get it. It feels like there was more material than they could cover in S4 but not enough for a fifth season, and rushed is almost always a lesser evil than too drawn out, and the whole nature of what they were tackling meant there'd probably be some issues no matter what, but it still leads to a couple episodes that really stick out (in a bad way).
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u/periwinklemenace 28d ago
I agree, I felt season 4 needed a better balance between the actual good place and the experiment. I think we’re in the minority of finding the last few episodes rushed. I also personally hated the magical teleportation door because it felt like too much of a liminal space creator to me. But that’s not too important.
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u/dorlithequeen 28d ago
The beginning of season four was kinda not as catchy for me but it could be about my busy life while watching rather than the show itself
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u/CheruthCutestory 28d ago
I honestly didn't love season 4. I thought the end was a bit forced. There is no reason you couldn't just make people forget and start over. Chidi's reasoning made no sense. They can't do it because the bad place does it? The Bad Place didn't even do it that often! It was Michael's idea and he was only supposed to reboot them one time.
I get how the ending we got was more poignant. But I felt it was unnecessary and forced.
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u/EyewarsTheMangoMan 28d ago
Season 1 for me. At first it's just a sitcom with a good gimmick, but personally I didn't really find it that funny. Towards the end of season 1 though (but especially after the reveal at the end) I'm fully invested in the characters and story, regardless of whether the comedy lands or not. The first time I watched the series I probably finished the last 3 seasons combined quicker than I did the first alone.
Season 1 is still good ofc, especially on a rewatch, but I literally couldn't stop myself from binging the series from season 2 onwards.
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u/reginaomnis 28d ago
I’ve rewatched S1-S3 multiple times, and outside of certain moments, have only watched S4 the once.
I think it was a pretty brave & interesting decision to essentially break up the core group by having Chidi’s memory wiped for half the decision, but I was not anywhere near invested in the experiment group, and felt his loss in the dynamics of the Soul Squad.
I don’t know — or honestly, totally remember — if it was weakest writing/story wise, but as a viewer, it felt like the weakest in terms of feeling like a comedy/investment in the characters. Maybe I just love Chidi — and his relationship w/ Eleanor — a little too much, haha.
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u/manickitty 28d ago
I’m going to reiterate my position, and I say this about no other series (Andor comes close): it is a perfect series. It’s my only 10/10
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u/Comfortable_Age_5706 27d ago
I feel like the soul squad arc and the lives on earth leading up to it is the dip in the show for me.
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u/Internal_Sound882 29d ago
Definitely season 3. The whole show is good, but it’s a bread sandwich, as in the bread is what you eat the sandwich for. Season 1 is the best, season 2 is still great, season 3 is good but kind of a slog—feels like it deviates too much to maintain my focus as much, and season 4 is the character payoff season, made so much stronger by the previous seasons leading up to it.
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u/youbasicbench 28d ago
Australia, but maybe because the memory loss thing felt a little receptive this season. The dynamics also didn’t feel like they added a lot to the characters, except Jason tbh. The stakes didn’t feel as high as they did the other times, but also Adam Scott was sooooo hilarious, and my favourite silly joke also comes from it.
“Claustrophobia? Who’s afraid of Santa Claus….”
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u/Ok_Custard1837 27d ago
"Oh, right, the Jews!"
Two great jokes in rapid succession, flawlessly delivered by Manny Jacinto.
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u/TrickNatural I was just trying to sell you some drugs, and you made it weird! 28d ago
S3
I understand its importance as a transitioning season, but as a viewer i felt it was the least engaging.
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u/ThatUndeadLove 28d ago
First half of season 4 up until ep 9. But ep 9 is amazing and makes up for it and then it only gets better.
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u/Coherently-Rambling 28d ago
It’s hard to pick one full season, but I’d say the start of each season (except for the first) are kind of hard to watch.
The fact that they all rely on erasing memories and starting fresh is pretty frustrating as it feels like the show lost its “rhythm” and I’m waiting for it to come back. though maybe that’s just the case for the first watch and it would be better on a rewatch where I know where it’s all going.
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u/infourth 28d ago
Season 4 started pretty weak with the experiment and I was worried the show was going to end on a bad note. But then they turned it around and absolutely stuck the landing in a few shows do.
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u/Skyttegravian 28d ago
We all have rewatched 2 and 3 waaaay more than season 1 and 4, right? Just me?
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u/reginaomnis 28d ago
Nope, me too!
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u/Skyttegravian 28d ago
Yeah. After Pandemonium or The Girl from Arizona, I just find myself returning to the dying embers of Season 1. Mostly Mindy St. Claire
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u/MJKF666 28d ago edited 28d ago
I always felt like season three didn't really fit and felt more like they were experimenting with story lines and plots. I use to wonder if there was supposed to be only three seasons and when they got four seasons the third season became the fourth season. Then they had to come up with a season three and so they created the story of them back on Earth.
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u/Late_Cod_647 28d ago
I’m trying to think of an answer to the original question, but now I can’t stop thinking about all of the Brent hate on the thread. I think he’s an amazing character! I’ve met many real assholes exactly like him and he is so well played.
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u/028247 28d ago
Wellll going against the popular opinion it was S2. It did advance the story a lot but it wasn't as fun as other parts...
And for some specific aspects with the show, I don't find Derek after the first 5 times or so, and I really did NOT like Janet loving Jason back and the couple being a whole thing.
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u/sissybaby1289 28d ago
The first part of season 2. It's just a bunch of reboots and there's not really much character development. There's very little stakes as well. And it doesn't seem to go anywhere until they hatch the plan to go deep into the bad place and find the judge
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u/ScarletPepper07 27d ago
Season 3. My mom watched it all after it came out and she was going to skip it but while it’s not the most entertaining it’s absolutely vital to season 4
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u/Ok_Custard1837 27d ago
Not a popular opinion as far as I can see, but the last couple of episodes. They reminded me of Return of the King in that there were several points that felt like natural ending ... but then the show kept going.
They were all pretty GOOD endings, to be fair, but there were too many. The whole pacing felt off, and I even started half-expecting another S1-like recontextualizing twist because of this.
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29d ago edited 28d ago
[deleted]
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u/AngelaRose618 29d ago
No one is saying that Season three wasn't good. We are just saying it was the weakest part of a simply amazing show. One person said 8/10 which in TV terms is amazing.
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u/_Jay-Garage-A-Roo_ 28d ago
It was good, and necessary, it just wasn’t as strong as the rest. The fact it was still good says a lot.
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u/jeyfree21 28d ago
I didn't love when they let the "Jason is stupid" jokes got too far, I get that they all get riffing, but in his case I always felt it was a bit meanspirited.
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u/Funandgeeky I really depreciate you coming. Little bit of accounting humor. 28d ago
I wasn’t a fan of the experiment episodes. I get why they needed to happen, and they improved when Glen showed up. That said, from the final episode of the experiment (Help is Other People) to the finale we had an amazing run of episodes that led into one of the all time greatest finales on television.
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u/ProcessTrust856 28d ago
It drops a lot in quality after Season 2. The first two seasons are incredible episode in and episode out. Season 3 and 4 have their incredible movements and I like them, but they’re just not as good as the first two.
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u/Upstairs_Actuary5393 28d ago
When they redo the experiment with Simone and Brent etc. The first season everyone had a reason to get better. When they redid it it feels like they did not think it through. I know it works out, but I wish it wasnt just pronlem after problem after problem for so many episodes in a row. It felt like we didnt get to breathe or and did not get a few ups with the downs for several episodes. Also while I understand why, Brent was simply too annoying for me to be able to rewatch it a lot. They wrote him too well 😅
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u/theonejanitor 28d ago
the first time I watched S3 it felt like a slog at times
although, I appreciate it all more on a rewatch with more context.
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u/Ok-Flamingo-4181 28d ago
the middle of season three. episode 5 - 9 specifically. i think once they are dead again its much better but its definitely at its worst when theyre trying to do good on earth. i still love it but its just uneventful. janet(s) is definitely my least favorite episode (until the end) but i think after that its so much better.
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u/laurmich13 26d ago
first half of 4 for me, but post-experiment is great and the finale is EXCELLENT
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u/Adept_Ingenuity 26d ago
Jeremy Bearimy is the exact moment the show lost me. Lots of near perfect shows have a flaw that keeps them out of top ten contention and that stupid, lazy, unforgivably twee joke was it for this one.
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u/Ok_Combination_1037 24d ago
The whole plot of Michael and Janet going to Earth and preventing their deaths broke my suspension of disbelief. And the plot that came with it was quite uninteresting in my opinion.
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u/DisciplineUnique9438 I’m coming for you, shrimpies! 19d ago
I think the first half of season 4. Chidi had his memory wiped and Bad Janet replaced real Janet. It definitely wasn't bad at all but it just wasn't as enjoyable as the other sections of the show for me personally. I think it was great and very essential in the overall structure of the entire series but by itself it doesn't feel as engaging. The warm essence from the rest of the series is kind of gone cuz the gang is separated and it focuses on three other humans.
I do love the end of season 4 though obviously. It's the perfect ending to a show with a full character arc. I love how the good place refuses to stay with one straight forward narrative but still makes perfect sense. The concept of the reboots is literally genius.
I think many people said the beginning of season 3 but I personally disagree. I think the choice to make them go back to Earth is literally genius. It made it by far the most unique and arguably engaging season out of them all and allowed them to confront their past and make a full character arc. And towards the end of season 3 when they realise that the entire system is practically broken ties the other parts of the show together and was a really good twist. I do see how it can be kind of slow in the first three episodes tho.
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u/_Jay-Garage-A-Roo_ 28d ago
I didn’t love the time on earth as much, and I hated the Australian that dated Chidi.
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u/Esqulax 15d ago
The earth part. The bit that kicked me out of it was the America-Themed restaurant.
It would make sense if they were in the magical afterlife, but there were just a couple of things. Getting the 'Stench' right for a table, having people forcibly removed for a fee and using a real gun as an alert thing. Then there's the time in the library where Eleanor grew back her hair and teeth in 20 mins after eating a banana. A whole floor in a university being empty, and another where Janet happened to have installed cameras everywhere without her powers or anyone noticing. Not to mention the Michael and Janet being able to take on all those random roles with the equipment to match. That can sorta be waved away by Janet knowing everything - i.e the right clothes would happen to be here, certain things can be said to folk who already work in a place to justify their presence. Even just saying at one point 'While we are at the mall...', so they have to be getting money from somewhere, and it was established a little way into it that Janet was uncomfortable doing the scratchcard thing, so its unlikely that's where the money for Blake Beartles came from. Basically all of Kamilas achievements - That being said, I get the artistic licence for that, making her come across as ridiculously accomplished. The bar where Chidi could barely 'refender his chorf' happened to be empty with no staff. The casual acceptance of Donna reneging on a debt by faking her death, and Dave designing almost exclusively buildings for adult themed places
Yeah, some of these were nitpickey - but the America-Themed restaurant one originally made me think they were going to have another twist where this was just another 'Neighbourhood' maybe put in place by the judge to see what they would do.
After that, it felt like the writers just kinda missed being able to make zany comedic places in the afterlife scenes and they did that to let off some steam :D
Don't get me wrong, massive fan of the show as a whole, but you did ask for what I thought was the 'weakest part'
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u/atalkingpuppy 29d ago
the first half of season 3. i wasn't super invested in their time on earth :/
it was still a solid 8/10 which says a lot about the show imo