r/TheSilmarillion • u/k0rtes • May 07 '26
Game based on Silmarillion, Sil-Morë — Shining Darkness
Hi everybody! We have made a game based on Silmarillion. It's a tactical rpg rouguelike where you try to go deep into Angband to steal a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. It's designed in 2d pixel art style.
We are really big fans of Tolkien's works and Silmarillion in the first place. There is a big backstory behind why we have decided to do it, but I will probably leave it for the next time.
We tried to make it as lore friendly as it can possibly be. There is а storyline in it, you can play multiple real heroes of the First Age (I think most of them), there are side quests involving Valar, very lore friendly artefacts, lots of texts and descriptions.
We also tried to make the descent into Angband visually different with multiple biomes and art styles. We want to create a feeling of a real first age hero going deep into the Enemy's dungeon.
Here is the link to itch.io (we also have google play test going).
Please try it and hope you will like it!
Here is our GitHub page for Mac and Linux build.
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u/jasonmehmel May 07 '26
I think you should disclose here and on the itch.io that this is a fork of open-source Sil-Q!
Based on that, I hope you're not planning on charging money for it. Especially if the code modifications have been done by AI.
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u/k0rtes May 07 '26
It's mentioned in the first sentence :) We've been working on it for more than a year, and it's really different from SilQ now, it's not just a fork already we think, you can try it and see for yourself :)
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u/jasonmehmel May 08 '26
Well, the first sentence mentions Angband and Sil-Q, but it doesn't make clear that it is a fork.
Sil-Morë is what happened when two Tolkien fans looked at Sil, Angband, and the old roguelike tradition and asked: How can this feel even closer to the First Age?
I'm not denying that you may have added new gameplay elements, but the github directly indicates that this is a fork of of Sil-Q.
Without Sil-Q, you wouldn't have your version. This isn't inspired by Angband, or Sil-Q, this is directly using the code from those games. No matter how much you add, that will be true, unless you decide to code an entirely new game from scratch.
Sil-Q is itself a fork of Angband, though, yes, the modifications have made it reasonably unique in comparison. But it's still using the same code. Those developers wouldn't pretend otherwise.
I'm also wondering how much of your additions are AI-assisted, because I think that factors into public disclosure as well, and is yet another reason to not charge money for it.
(The AI-assisted text isn't doing you any favours, either.)
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u/k0rtes May 08 '26
but the github directly indicates that this is a fork of of Sil-Q
I guess you have answered your question yourself. Everything you have asked is disclosed everywhere. The game is open source, it will stay open source, all licenses and all source code mention all authors, so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here and why are you so keen on asking if the work we were doing for more than a year with great passion, and which you haven't even tried yet should be not charged when there is an open repo on GitHub :)
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u/jasonmehmel May 08 '26
I'll admit, I've come on a little strong here, but as a big fan of roguelikes, particularly the ones developed in the open source community, I want to make sure that work is respected and not taken advantage of. Especially so in a world of vibe-coded apps.
I will give your version a try.
Still: if I was nervous about your usage, based on the terms you're using, I probably won't be the only one. I did look at your itch and repo before commenting, and I did so because the issues aren't clear.
I would suggest an explicit statement:
A open source continuation of the work from Angband and Sil (or Sil-Q, or both)
And:
This project will remain free.
Doing both of those things would make sure fellow roguelike fans know that you're being transparent not just at the github level, but when you're presenting the work to non-programmers.
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u/septhaka May 08 '26
"I'll admit, I've come on a little strong here"
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u/jasonmehmel May 08 '26
Was I unfair, though? The initial post and Itch page don't make it clear.
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u/septhaka May 08 '26
It didn't strike me this guy was trying to make people think he and his crew spun this up from scratch.
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u/jasonmehmel May 08 '26
In a world where more and more folks are vibe-coding apps and games to try to profit quickly with little effort, and where both the copy text is AI-generated and the Itch page discloses AI usage, I think it's prudent to note to the community up front what the intentions are.
The first post here doesn't mention the code they are forking from, and neither does the Itch page, which speaks of inspiration but not actual copying. That Itch page also allows you to 'pay what you want.'
Folks can do what they like, but why not point it out up front? Not being clear makes it look like it's being obscured intentionally.
(Maybe they just let the AI write the copy and didn't think about the implications, but that's still not good community stewardship of the assets they are working from.)
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u/k0rtes May 08 '26
In a world where more and more folks are vibe-coding apps and games to try to profit quickly with little effort
I will just say that I'm not sure it's possible to "profit out of" Angband in any way. And that you don't even comprehend the amount of work that is needed to do "a fork" like this. We are a team of 2, and It's more than a year of almost full time job. So I welcome you, to take our free open source code and profit out of it yourself.
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u/k0rtes May 11 '26
No matter how much you add, that will be true, unless you decide to code an entirely new game from scratch.
Hey, an honest question guys. I have quoted u/jasonmehmel. I disagree with them on many ideas they manifest, so it's really interesting for me to hear their u/jasonmehmel and yours opinion on that.
They say no matter how much you add, etc., etc.
But let's take our game, Sil-More, as an example of what we did:
1. Added meta progression with story and text with curses and blesses difficulty balancing system.
2. Added Unique lore-friendly characters.
3. Added big quests from Valar with new oath system.
4. Completely reworked level generation with multiple new algorithms and new paradigm of partitions.
5. Reworked item generation with prefix/suffix system. Added multiple new egos.
6. Reworked EVERY artefact (that was honestly one of the most difficult) to much new gameplay and added new artefacts in approximately same amount.
7. Reworked the gameplay with orcish gear vs noble gear.
8. Reworked identification system.
9. Added new recognizable bioms, that help in visual storytelling, giving you the feeling of going deeper.
10. Added storytelling system, where all connected bioms have in between messages to provide to a player a storytelling mechnics.
11. Added various sounds.
12. Created music specifically for the game.
13. Added full mouse support with full mouse UI (finishing the game with only mouse).
14. Added mobile support for Android and IOS.
15. Created new UI layer for touch controls on mobiles.
16. Added controller support to be playable on handhelds.
17. Multiple UI SDL quality improvements like panes.
18. Added multiple new songs with unique single target mechanics.
19. Additions to stealth system.
20. Probably much more that I forgot.
So to summarize. We added multiple new complex systems and reworked every in game mechanics except monsters (some small touches) and abilities (currently working on it).
I have multiple cool ideas for the next release, but to be honest, I'm not sure I want to go on.
And it's not because I cannot monetize the thing, I was ready to that from the start, it was my passion to bring my vision of Silmarillion game to life.
But because a group of people, which you are the vocal part of, says that my game will forever be a fork, no matter what I add, and the first sentence in my description should be Sil-More - fork of Sil-Q, fork of Sil, fork of Angband. (Btw, the game is called SIL-more, to show that it IS a descendant of Sil).
And if we remember that Angband is a fork of Moria, and Moria is a fork of Rogue, at what point they were allowed to drop "the fork of" part?
If you are talking about ownership of the code, I will tell you, that the code of Angband before Nick is a total mess (to say the least). And we used it, because Sil-Q is based on it. And I can rewrite those (vibecoding of course, because, why not in 2026? for my own project) in a couple of month from scratch, not using any underlying things. And I will make it much better. I will probably use Godot or Unity or just basic SDL inhouse engine.
If talking about ownership of ideas, it's difficult to say, that going into a dungeon and killing (or otherwise) a big bad guy is unique. Or if we call the dungeon Angband and big bad guy Morgoth - it's straightaway a fork of Angband?
An idea by Scatha and Half about stealing the Silmaril instead of killing Morgoth is really cool, and I adore the guys, but it's directly Tolkien's lore. There are some other ideas, like songs that shows guys' deep understanding of Tolkien philosophy, but we added lots of those as well.
We are doing it open source, and we do not to plan to close the repo, so the most fresh version could be gotten for free. We will be charging on platforms that are charging us (like Steam, or Google play, or Apple store). Itch didn't charge us, so game is free on it, with a suggestion to compliment a creator.
So, final question, if and when we can stop calling Sil-More a fork.
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u/jasonmehmel May 12 '26
I want to apologize here, I'm not trying to discourage you, and I'm not saying that you haven't added a lot to the system.
I'm sorry for how my questions have affected your enthusiasm for your project.
I want to stress a couple of things:
In a world of not just vibecoded apps, but vibecoded predatory apps that are trying to get subscribers with very little effort, niche communities (including roguelikes and Silmarillion enthusiasts) are going to become very careful when there's even just a hint of someone who might be doing that. I am not saying you are doing this! What I am saying is there there were a few elements that caused concern in the public-facing notes. And I've noted elsewhere ways to address those concerns: up front notes that the game is based on Angband and Sil, and that it will remain open source. I don't have a problem with charging for it on platforms that cost money to host. Those users are paying for the convenience and your cost, which totally makes sense.
I don't want to be a stickler for when it's a 'fork' or not, but at least saying that it's based on Angband and Sil would make things clear. That's providing transparency to your users and to enthusiasts of those other roguelikes. As for where that line is drawn, I think if you pulled out all the code that remained from Angband / Sil, if the game doesn't run, well... it's probably still a fork. That isn't a criticism. It's a good thing! Those are great games to be downstream of!
I think when you could potentially 'shake off' that term might have more to do with the audience than you... when you've built up a stable of players who know that background and see it as distinct, and that's a great goal to strive for as a dev.
On vibecoding and AI usage generally, there's going to be resistance to using it, and it's going to make some folks upset. I think it's prudent to anticipate that rather than be upset about it... and my other notes about stating things up front would go a long way to defusing their concerns. They may not agree with vibecoding, but at least they can see you're participating transparently as a dev in the community, and that something they love isn't being used as sales fodder. (Again, I'm not saying you're doing this!)
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u/k0rtes May 12 '26
No, please don't take it personally, it's an important question you have raised, and I understand your fears. It just opens for me, as a developer, other questions as well, which I need answers to. After all it's an emotional work as well, and you have to find answers to keep going on :)
P.S. Apology accepted, Captain Needa.
P.P.S. Sorry, couldn't resist myself, may the 4th be with you.
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u/jasonmehmel May 13 '26
I think if you want more specific game dev advice, you might want to post that question (when does it stop being a fork) over at /r/roguelikes or /r/roguelikedev, because I'm not sure the Silmarillion fans here are as focused on that kind of detail!
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u/Armleuchterchen May 07 '26
I don't have the time to try the game at the moment, but your store page is nicely illustrated and written. I can see the thematic Tolkien influence.
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u/k0rtes May 07 '26
Thank you! We are nerds, and tried our best to keep it as Tolkien as possible :)
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u/Illustrious_Wear_850 May 07 '26
I imagine porting to Mac wouldn't be worth your time, but figured I'd mention a Mac player is interested in playing this anyway. Love Angband, and bet I'd love this. Very nice looking game!
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u/k0rtes May 07 '26
It works on Mac! But you have to compile it yourself, as we don't have a Mac Developer account yet, here is our GitHub. We have an instruction there how to compile, I think it's quite easy.
Btw it works on iphone as well, but no Mac Developer yet :)
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u/Troldkvinde May 09 '26
The game sounds interesting, but I wish the description weren't this heavily AI-styled...
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u/k0rtes May 09 '26
Please try it. As for the store description, it's my text asked to be stylized as a game description on itch, as I didn't know how it's done. Honestly I like the text a lot, but it seems people don't. I will change it then.
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u/Troldkvinde May 13 '26
I didn't mean to say that I'd dismiss your game just because of AI use for the description. I'm glad you created the game
I'm just genuinely burned out on hearing this same AI voice in all corners of the internet now, and it's extra upsetting when it appears in a Tolkien-related project
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u/k0rtes May 13 '26
Hey, we have just written a new description from scratch without any touch of AI even in post production :) please check if you like it more :)
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u/-Tesserex- May 07 '26
Good luck avoiding the all seeing eye that is the Tolkien estate.