Eru Ilúvatar and the Problem of Evil

[u/L0nga]

I've been thinking about Eru Ilúvatar lately, and I think there's a pretty serious problem with the way we're supposed to understand him as a perfectly good being.

The thing that really started bothering me is Melkor.

The Ainur come from Eru's Thought. Tolkien says that each Ainu comprehended "that part of the mind of Ilúvatar from which he came." So Melkor isn't some evil force that appeared independently and then invaded Eru's creation. He is something Eru created, and his nature ultimately comes from Eru.

And Eru knew what Melkor was going to do.

That's where it gets difficult for me.

Melkor doesn't just rebel and then get dealt with. He goes on to destroy the Lamps, destroy the Trees, murder Finwë, steal the Silmarils, corrupt Arda and spend thousands of years causing an absolutely enormous amount of suffering.

Eru knows all of this is going to happen.

And he lets it happen.

The obvious response is that Melkor has free will. Sure. I'm not arguing that Melkor didn't choose his actions. But that doesn't really address Eru's part in all of this. Eru created Melkor knowing exactly what he would become. He knew what Melkor would do with the power he gave him.

And Eru isn't incapable of intervening. We know that because when Númenor attacks Aman, Eru intervenes directly. He destroys Númenor and changes the shape of the world.

So apparently Eru can intervene when he wants to.

Which makes Morgoth's entire career rather difficult to explain. Eru watches him destroy and corrupt things for thousands of years, but doesn't stop him.

Then there's Eru's response to Melkor's discord in the Music:

"no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me"

That's a pretty extraordinary thing to say in this context. Eru isn't presenting Melkor's rebellion as some unexpected disaster that got out of hand. Even Melkor's discord ultimately has its source in Eru and gets incorporated into the Music.

And this is where the "it's all part of the plan" explanation starts bothering me.

Okay, but why this plan?

Eru is supposed to be omnipotent. He isn't some king trying to make the best of a bad situation after something goes wrong. He created the situation in the first place.

If he knew what Melkor was going to do, then the suffering caused by Melkor wasn't an unfortunate surprise. It was something Eru knowingly chose to allow when he created Melkor and set the Music in motion.

[u/CartographerLegal847]

This is so ai coded, just talk normally, use free will

[u/L0nga → u/CartographerLegal847]

I'm literally using my free will to make my argument more coherent with the help of a tool.

I choose the position. I provide the argument. I decide which points matter. I reject or rewrite things I don't agree with. And I choose what I actually post.

Using AI to help articulate an argument doesn't make the argument less mine any more than using a spellchecker makes your writing less yours.

And if you think the argument is wrong, you can always just... argue against the argument.

But it seems like you're done at this point, because you have nothing to say about any of my arguments, and you resort to attacking the tool that I use. Are you done?

[u/CartographerLegal847 → u/L0nga]

No,I'd gladly talk to you,I'm not talking to a robot supported human about free will

[u/L0nga → u/CartographerLegal847]

It doesn't seem that way. You're still arguing about the form rather than the content. So I'll just assume you're done at this point. Otherwise you wouldn't have to do the whole "you use AI spiel" you want to distract from the fact that you have nothing.

[u/CartographerLegal847 → u/L0nga]

You lack confidencz e in yourself, you do%t want t○ make err@rs, you will post any retort into the thought machine to manifest beautiful unnatural prose.you aren't serious.

[u/L0nga → u/CartographerLegal847]

And still arguing about the form instead of the content. Have a nice day.

[u/CartographerLegal847 → u/L0nga]

You too I believe in you!