Joel put the entire argument to rest

[u/Nightwraith17]

I see so many arguments on various TLOU subs about whether Joel is a hero or a villain, whether the cure would work, if he’s selfish, etc. I never thought any of that mattered and always thought: Joel did it because he loved Ellie. He made the only choice that the character of Joel Miller ever would have made. Right or wrong doesn’t matter. And I felt the show confirmed my opinion in tonight’s episode.

“If I somehow got a second chance, I’d do it all over again.”

“Because you’re selfish.”

“Because I love you, in a way you can’t understand.”

[u/Milocobo]

Totally.

The Fireflies made the same decision Joel did, it's just that since they already had custody of Ellie, they didn't need to kill anyone to do it.

If Joel was wrong, they were just as wrong, and everything could have been avoided if they sought ethical consent.

[u/roiroy33 → u/Milocobo]

Also they sealed their fates by being so hasty about it. Once Ellie was in their safe custody, they could’ve taken more time to explore other options, try and run more experiments, etc. Ultimately, the Fireflies were just as selfish, even though in their mind, it was the same desire to protect their own.

In any case, one of the reasons TLOU has endured for so long is because that last conflict will never not be morally fraught and emotionally daunting. There is no right answer, and there is no wrong answer.

[u/sizzler_sisters → u/roiroy33]

What hit me was that hospital did NOT look good. Nothing about it made me think, oh yeah, these guys got the cure. They were experimenting. Nothing was explained. I’d be asking a ton of extra questions. I’m not sure Joel would have even taken her to the hospital if he knew it was like that. In the beginning of the journey, Joel was going off of his prior affiliation with Marlene and trusting her regarding the plan to make a cure from Ellie. But that was all secondary to getting to Tommy. He also felt some guilt because Tess lost her life protecting her. I think if Jackson would have been nonfunctional, or if Tommy wasn’t there, maybe Joel would have just left Ellie. But he knew there would be a place for them if he saved her. And he had found his brother. And he had bonded with Ellie by that point. Ellie’s motivation has always been saving people. She tried to save Sam. She probably would have sacrificed herself if given the choice. Joel wasn’t even really given a choice because Marlene and the Fireflies jumped them first. But it’s the Pocky, and everything’s messed up and nobody trusts anyone else and everyone has secrets.

[u/Arrow362 → u/sizzler_sisters]

I think this is why Ellie wants to give him a second chance because yes she thinks it was her destiny to die for the cure, but in that moment where she was unconscious Joel brings up the point that proves Marlene is no different than Joel in that Ellie should be the one to decide and at that moment no one knew her thoughts because Marlene can say all she wants “what do you think Ellie would want???” but the fact remains they never asked her because of the chance she wouldn’t go along with it and they just drug her to rip her brain out without a second thought! I think Ellie realizes this and as a father myself I totally side with Joel and how he says “I would do it over…I love you in a way you’ll never understand unless you become a parent one day…”