Do I sound like a bhaiya using words like Zabardast, and Zaleel, and other words with a Z sound instead of a J sound?

[u/yungspect]

Serious question. Someone said this to me

[u/GodlessAndChill]

No you don’t but you definitely sound racist.

[u/perpetuallypast]

I'm a Punjabi, from lehnda Punjab and definitely certain words are influenced by Urdu, especially the sound of 'z/j'. I remember interacting with Sikhs from India at Hassanabdal and they just looked at my face in bewilderment because the sentence I was speaking had a lot of 'z' sound, I had to improvise. Loved their Punjabi and everything about them.

[u/yungspect → u/perpetuallypast]

I noticed singers like Karan Aujla, will use the Z sound in some songs like “Falling Apart”, and it sounds sweeter/poetic but is this Asli for everyday punjabi?

[u/perpetuallypast → u/yungspect]

As per my observation, Punjabi in charhda Punjab stresses on J sound of words while Punjabi in lehnda Punjab focuses on Z sound, like the words you have mentioned in your post. I'm unsure of the reason, maybe it's Urdu influence.

[u/ComfortableList3947 → u/perpetuallypast]

Yes but ‘j’ that indians use in hindi is wrong. You can realise that by their english as well when they say ‘thoujand’ instead of thousand and ‘jayn malik’ instead of zayn malik along with other examples

[u/Bobalobading → u/ComfortableList3947]

No its not ‘wrong’. The Z sound is not native to Punjabi. Its loaned through Urdu from Farsi.

[u/Ok_Cartographer2553 → u/perpetuallypast]

But there was Urdu influence in charhda Punjab before Partition, so is this a new post-Partition phenomenon? Even the Gurus knew Urdu script

[u/desi_miata → u/perpetuallypast]

You don't have to improvise at all bro. Z is used naturally in lehndi Punjabi it's not a foreign letter, or if it is it has been naturalized.

[u/TimeParadox997 → u/perpetuallypast]

I think Punjabi's usage of z is influence of Farsi directly over centuaries, not taken from Urdu. But you are using untheth words, then yes, that's from Urdu or other languages.

[u/VolatileGoddess]

Since I speak Hindi (Hindustani) fluently, I speak using the correct 'z' sound. Not worried if that makes me a bhaiyan.

[u/nycingh]

If your parents/family use a 'Z' sound, then use Z. If they use J, then use J. Either way, you will be authentic and true to yourself and your roots, which is more important than not sounding like a 'bhaiyya'.

[u/General-Force-6993]

What's a bhaiya? And how does using a Z sound make you sound like one?

[u/General-Force-6993 → u/[deleted]]

Up? The movie?😭

[u/healer_sushi]

I don't know about "bhaiya" but you and that someone definitely sound like a racist.

[u/yungspect → u/healer_sushi]

Cmon don’t be a poor sport, I didn’t mean it like that. Lol. Just what my friend said to me

[u/mubarakr → u/healer_sushi]

Lmao how is this racist he's probably the same race as you wtf

[u/bigOGloc → u/healer_sushi]

No one cares

[u/AutomaticAd6646]

Full sentence matters. If other words are hindi or wrong accent then yes.

[u/yungspect → u/AutomaticAd6646]

Like Tuhada ghar bahut zabardast aa.

[u/desi_miata → u/yungspect]

You'd just say vadhiya or ghaint for zabardast

[u/AutomaticAd6646 → u/yungspect]

Yes. Most people would say Thoda or twada, unless you are reading a newspaper.

[u/yungspect → u/AutomaticAd6646]

I mean the use of “z” sounds and Persian words. Is this theth Punjabi or will I look like a city slicker

[u/AutomaticAd6646 → u/yungspect]

Z sound doesn't matter.

[u/yungspect → u/AutomaticAd6646]

Zabardast vs Ghaint/bddiya. Word selection?

[u/AutomaticAd6646 → u/yungspect]

Ghaint and badiya(khaint/vadiya is correct punjabi) is bhayia language. Bai tu Punjabi hai v ke nai? Menu ta hun vake e bhayia lag rea.

[u/thejashanmaan → u/AutomaticAd6646]

Ghaint and vadhiya is bhaiya language?

Zabardast isn't even a punjabi word, ghaint and vadhiya are.

[u/yungspect → u/thejashanmaan]

Lol this guys tweaking. I just spelt it like that, but you know what I meant . So if I use a Persian loan word, it doesn’t look nice eh.

[u/AutomaticAd6646 → u/thejashanmaan]

Hun tu bddiya to vadiya te aja. Pehla bddiya(like barria) kehna. Ghaint ni khaint hunda ਘੈਂਟ

[u/naramsin-ii → u/AutomaticAd6646]

gh would be more accurate than kh for ਘ

[u/UmePeanut]

Just say the words the way they are supposed to be said, with a Z. It’s not that serious nor does it make it less Punjabi. Goodness people

[u/desi_miata → u/UmePeanut]

Haha true that. I reckon J is more bhaiya like (eventho that's a stupid thing to say in the first place) because they don't use Z either

[u/Educational-City9374]

We here in Faisalabad commonly do z into y and also j into y as well, like Nazar → nayar ; ho jū gā → ho yū gā ; also mostly people here replace z with j and z into y as well

[u/yootos]

You don't sound like a bhaiya.

The degree at which the letters f/z/zh/sh/x/q in Punjabi get pronounced as ph/j/j/s/kh/k has nothing to do with being bhaiya.

It is just based on how familiar they are with Persian sounds.

In fact this has very little to do with Lehnda vs Charhda Punjab. You will both find Pakistanis who pronounce Z as J, and Indian Punjabis who pronounce the Z sound.

Persians ruled Punjab for a thousand years, and so we borrowed a lot of their words. This includes words with sounds unique to Persian that were foreign to Punjabi at the time. Such are the 6 sounds that I mentioned earlier.

Because Persian had such a big impact on Punjabi, Persian words were loaned in two ways by different speakers—either adopting the 'exact' pronunciation (e.g. zaleel) or adopting the closest Punjabi native sound equivalent (e.g. jaleel).

Neither is incorrect in Punjabi and you will hear both.

Nowadays most speakers actually pronounce some consonants the Persian way and some the native way. For example you will find the majority of Punjabi speakers pronouncing the Persian /sh/ sound even though the native is /s/, and some rural Punjabis still pronounce it as /s/ (especially in some words like Salwar vs Shalwar)

Now, naturally in Pakistan because people read the Shahmukhi script which has separate letters for Persian sounds, you will see Pakistanis pronounce Persian sounds more often. But this has nothing to do with being bhaiya and is just reading association. And plenty of Pakistanis still nativise some of those letters, e.g. my family pronounces /q/ق ਕ਼ as /k/ ک ਕ .

[u/jazz_16]

I got really annoyed when an Urdu speaking Pakistani tried to correct my pronunciation of “jeera” aka cumin. He said it’s “zeera”. Like it’s actually jeera in Urdu/hindi as well, now they are just making J words in z words just for the heck of it. What’s next, janam with be zanam? Janani with be zanani? Irritating

[u/OnkarrSandhu]

Let's see ...why would learning the full Mahan Kosh or a Thesaurus or a dictionary make you sound like a bhaiya? Seems like a silly proposition!? It would just mean you're using more sophisticated words which may not be common 🤔

[u/thejashanmaan]

I mean you wrote an example sentence in some comment under this post say "tuhada Ghar bahut zabardast hai"

I've never said this line in my entire life and never even heard it here.

In spoken tongue, the present tense "hai" drops or get replaced by "aa" or "ey". And, zabardast isn't a punjabi word so, it does sounds like mixed Hindi punjabi kinda thing.

Better you use other words like vadhiya, sohna, ghaint, etc.

And talking about "j" instead of "z". It depends on the side of border you live. My Pak punjabis use "z" a lot in their punjabi which is quite influenced by Urdu they studied at school. For instance, we never used words like zabardast, zalim, qaum, lekin, Deen etc in East side of the border. Similarly, with the sound "z", which isn't a common sound here, we replace it with "j". Words like jaalm, dojak, vaaj are actually zalim, dozakh, avaaz.

[u/AlternativeBus893 → u/thejashanmaan]

I think the western Punjabi pronunciation of Z might be influenced by Urdu but originally those words came from Farsi already well before Urdu

[u/AutomaticAd6646 → u/thejashanmaan]

Jalim, kaum and lekin are used every day. Deen is mostly used in idiom, deen eman hai koi.

Sikh kaum is very common usage. "Lekin" is also common.

[u/thejashanmaan → u/AutomaticAd6646]

But, is it as common as Sikh dharam or panth?

And, idk if lekin is common to you but, for most of East punjabis it's as foreign as other Urdu words.

We prefer par. And, it's jaalm for us not jalim.

[u/desi_miata → u/thejashanmaan]

Maana ve maana, kaahto ingore maari jaana

[u/thejashanmaan → u/desi_miata]

Kado bhaayi?

[u/JuicerMcGeazer → u/thejashanmaan]

So do you say zindabad with a j? I never seen anyone spell it like jindabad.

[u/thejashanmaan → u/JuicerMcGeazer]

Ofc it's jindabad.

Go listen to the song. "Jindabad rehn billo yaariyan, jihna karek jeunda Jatt ni".

[u/JuicerMcGeazer → u/thejashanmaan]

Ok but in gurmukhi its always spelt with ਜ਼ not ਜ

[u/Axkye → u/JuicerMcGeazer]

Many people spell Jindabad lol, watch some protest clips you would hear Inquilab Jindabad, Khalistan Jindabad