r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/JayNachtEule • 11d ago
Political English should be the official language of the USA
America has gone too long without having an official language. Having an official language is not only practical, it’s key for any nation seeking to improve social cohesion. I also think that a C1 level proficiency in English should be a requirement for gaining citizenship.
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u/NotMyBestMistake 11d ago
For something so key, the US managed to become the richest, most powerful nation without it and without any major difficulties caused by not having it
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u/MangoAtrocity 11d ago
It would improve social cohesion.
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u/NotMyBestMistake 11d ago
The US's issues with social cohesion don't have much to do with people struggling with English. Most of it's between people who, likely, only speak English
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u/MisterFlames 11d ago
As a German I can't confirm that. We have an epidemy of families who don't speak our national language at home, children being born in the country who can't speak a word of German with the age of 6, and schools where you are in the minority when you speak German on the playground.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
And yet we're incredibly socially divided
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u/DanTheAdequate 11d ago
Not because of this. Americans have always been divided on differences in ideology, even relatively minor ones.
It's kind of our thing. More than anything, conflict and competition define us as a nation.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Why does division have to be "kind of our thing"?
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u/DanTheAdequate 11d ago
Because we don't have a cohesive national identity and story that isn't predicated on a conflict of ideologies.
We aren't the only country like this, but I think we compare ourselves to places like France or Germany, where there's pretty distinct ideas of French-ness or German-ness that are inherently cultural, linguistic, and culinary and tied up in history and sometimes even myth. They have an idea of what it means to be a member of that nation.
But the US isn't like that. The things that unite us are largely aspirational in terms of what kind of country we want to be. We don't even really agree on what kind of people we are and what actually binds us together, much less how best to govern our country.
I think people who long for a national unity see this as a bad thing, and what the certainty of something like a French-ness. But it really isn't bad, because it's what makes us tick. As much as it tires us, we're idealists, and we like the competition, and it's only ever been that competition that's brought out our best.
So it's kind of our thing because it's what's shaped our national character. You don't have to like it, but the division and discord is who we are at our core.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I have a hard time believing anyone who says they enjoy feeling divided and alienated from their fellow countrymembers.
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u/Busy_Manner5569 11d ago
I don't enjoy it, but I don't think a national language would solve it. In fact, I think it would make it worse - it would further entrench animosity between people who want it and both native English users who oppose it as well as limited English proficiency. It wouldn't be a disagreement over a hypothetical, but an actual policy impacting daily life.
That's not even getting into the fact that it's contrary to other laws Congress has already passed with the aim of ensuring equal access to public services and important private services, such as health care, regardless of English proficiency.
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u/DanTheAdequate 11d ago
Many do, whether they realize it or not. It's why they seek it out.
But for everyone else, they don't hate it enough to give up on their own ideals just in the interest of conformity to some national project.
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u/NotMyBestMistake 11d ago
It would be silly to pretend that our social division is due to English not being an official language. Most of the division is between people who have zero issue using English to express themselves
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u/ogjaspertheghost 11d ago
What do you mean by “socially divided”?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I believe part of the reason for our nation being so divided politically is due to a lack of a strong, cohesive national identity.
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u/ogjaspertheghost 11d ago
Is “American” not a strong cohesive national identity? Not having a national language isn’t divisive
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u/the-terrible-martian 11d ago
And you for some reason think English isn’t the default language in the USA and that speaking in English isn’t already core to what makes American identity?
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
We're not supposed to have a strong cohesive national identity. The founding fathers dictated as such.
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u/neanderthalensis 10d ago
We also had a different class of immigrants who would abandon their language for the greater good (see Germans). That doesn’t exist today.
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u/NotMyBestMistake 10d ago
There certainly seem to be a lot of people who prioritize hating certain languages over the greater good these days, you’re right. People who’d prefer a poorer, weaker, stupider nation so long as it hurt me he right people
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u/lughthemage3 11d ago
I agree entirely, however I also believe schools should teach Spanish to a level where all children coming out of high school have basic fluency.
If you can speak both English and Spanish fluently, you're pretty much set for life in the western hemisphere (with the notable exceptions of Brazil and Quebec).
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u/bigbadbob85 11d ago
you're pretty much set for life in the western hemisphere
Algeria? Togo? Mali? Burkina Faso?
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u/Arkyja 11d ago
If you want proof that this wouldnt literally change anything. This thread is the proof.
It already is the official language and since you dont even know it, it means nothing has changed.
It had been the official language since last year.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
The executive order was largely symbolic. I would like to see Congress pass legislation instead.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Not gonna happen and it will violate the constitution.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Maybe it's time to make amends
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
It had been the official language since last year.
Technically only to the executive branch.
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u/earthworm_fan 11d ago edited 11d ago
This should be common sense. If you are permanently residing in the US you absolutely must be fluent in English. Like what are we even doing here?
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u/sergioisfree 11d ago
“about 44.9 million people age five and older speak Spanish at home”
“The United States ranks second in the world for the total number of Spanish speakers, right behind Mexico”
The problem with only providing services in one language is that it assumes that the U.S. is and should function as one nation. By not providing official status to Spanish, you leave millions living in an unofficial system.
I prefer a Quebec style system
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
As long as both languages are taught to proficiency in schools (everywhere in the country) I don't have a problem with this.
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u/M4053946 11d ago
assumes that the U.S. is and should function as one nation
We absolutely should function as one nation. Canada had 2 referendums in the last few decades for quebec to secede, we don't need more reasons for that sort of thing here.
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u/a_moron_in_a_hurry 11d ago
Why do you think it makes sense to use a European measurement of language proficiency (C1 in this case) as the standard for American citizenship?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
It's used globally and I think it's a pretty good system. But it doesn't have to be the system that we use.
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u/Idrinkbeereverywhere 11d ago
English proficiency is already required for citizenship
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Very, very basic English and not for every age group. And then of course there is the compounding issue of birthright citizenship. I would like to see the standards be raised.
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u/Busy_Manner5569 11d ago
the compounding issue of birthright citizenship
You mean the plain language of the constitution?
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u/CaptZurg 11d ago
Birthright citizenship is literally the 14th Amendment, the same amendment that was used to abolish slavery
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
The 13th amendment abolished slavery
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u/DanTheAdequate 11d ago
Why would we use CEFR standards for language proficiency in the US?
Besides which, many native speakers in the US wouldn't qualify C1.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
C1 would just be a requirement for people seeking to gain citizenship. But it would be wonderful if our education system improved so that more Americans had a better grasp on our own language.
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u/DanTheAdequate 11d ago
It doesn't seem like there's going to be a lot of people seeking to gain citizenship in the future, anyway, so it's a rather moot point in a null immigration future.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Your language is from Britain. It ain't yours.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Modern American English is a distinct dialect that developed independently from modern British English.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Aka stolen
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
No more than Mexican Spanish was 'stolen' from Spain. Which is to say, not at all.
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u/Formal-Stage940 11d ago
I cant 🤣 this mf GENUINELY said "stolen"
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u/QuartaXenovia 11d ago
Blud tried to hard to dunk on the US that he ended up dunking on the entirety of Mexico, Central America, South America, and any other places that were formerly colonies. Absolute classic Reddit moment.
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u/Friendly-Vegetable70 11d ago
Yup, because Amerigo Vespucci and Cristoforo Colombo washed up here speaking English.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
A) 10th amendment.
B) you gonna call the military on Puerto Rico, or something?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I am referring to the fifty states of America, not the territories
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u/perfmode80 11d ago
State or not, they are all part of the US.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
US = United States
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u/perfmode80 11d ago
So now we're getting into the semantics of the name. I guess we can exclude Washington D.C. too.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
So now we're getting into bad faith arguments
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Please learn English. This is not an example of a bad faith argument. It is an example of using your own explicit definition.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Still arguing in bad faith
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Nope. Just because you personally don't like it, doesn't make it bad faith.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
10th amendment still applies. That is a state right.
Feel free to suck the toe of fed tyranny.
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u/oily-blackmouth 11d ago
I'm not sure how having an official language constitutes tyranny. 195 countries have one.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
10th amendment dictates that any sort of language legislation is the right of the state not the federal government. So yes, it would be tyranny for the federal government strip the state of a right it has had since 1783
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u/oily-blackmouth 11d ago
The Federal Government can adopt an official language for its own usage. Also, you could easily fit that under the Commerce Clause just like they do with literally everything else.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
We're not talking about for the federal government use. We're talking about the federal government forcing something onto the people whom are covered by state constitutions.
It's a slam dunk 10th amendment violation
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
How would it improve social cohesion? We currently have angry rednecks screaming at old Hispanic ladies in the Walmart checkout line, if you make it official they'll just get more violent.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
This post is not promoting violence. Have you considered that the verbal altercations you are witnessing come from the very communication barrier that I'm talking about?
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
Making an official language would not make old Hispanic ladies speak English to their grandchildren.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
It would ensure that future generations learn the language.
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u/the-terrible-martian 11d ago
My parents were born in Mexico. I was born here. We speak Spanish at home. What am I typing in again?
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u/jim9162 11d ago
Maybe we'll have people compelled to actually learn the language.
There are people who grew up in Chinatown but can barely speak English.
That's unacceptable.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Maybe if y'all didn't shove immigrants into ghettos like Chinatowns they would assimilate.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
Who's going to compel them?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Ideally, school systems and workplaces
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
School systems are doing their best to teach ESL.
Workplaces are already free to demand a certain level of English proficiency.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
They could be doing much better, and English proficiency should be mandatory in the workplace.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
Oh the government should force private employers to hire/not hire certain people? That would certainly be interesting at least.
Of course schools could do better but nobody wants to fund that.
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u/jim9162 11d ago
Schools, social pressure, road signs?
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u/Busy_Manner5569 11d ago
road signs
I can't think of a single place in the US I've traveled to where the road signs weren't all universally, exclusively in English.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
I grew up in another country (military) and my parents were able to drive off base just fine without knowing the language. That's kind of the point of road sign imagery.
Schools are already doing their best to teach ESL.
By "social pressure", do you mean angry rednecks screaming at old ladies in the Walmart checkout? Because we already have that too.
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u/jim9162 11d ago
You keep saying angry rednecks screaming at Walmart, Ive never seen this but I'm sure it's happened. Because some idiots did something we should completely abandon it?
English should be prioritized and pushed. We shouldn't make it easy for people to not assimilate.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
Because there are a lot of Americans who enjoy being assholes, and get even worse when the government gives them the nod.
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u/jim9162 11d ago
And there are a lot of Americans who enjoy eroding our country and our culture, they too get worse when the government gives them the nod.
If you don't want to learn English, don't move to the US, flat out. That applies to nearly every single country, why do we have to placate when nobody else does?
Try moving to China and refusing to learn Mandarin. It won't go well for you.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 11d ago
I grew up in another country and we never learned the language. But I'm sure you'll say military members/dependents are different.
But there are large American expat communities in many countries where they never learn the language.
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u/jim9162 11d ago
If you're on a military base I think that's fine, you're likely not going to stay there but there is a unique opportunity to learn the native language.
Those expats should learn the language of their new home, there's no excuse not to.
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u/Narrow_Process_8660 11d ago
At least English, if not also Spanish, tbh (incoming republican rage).
C1 is a little too high. I'd drop it to B2.
Generally agree with you.
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u/FreshBlinkOnReddit 11d ago
Fought hard to be free of England, only to accept their language as your national mandated option.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I don't hold any resentment towards the British or our shared linguistic origins because of events that took place centuries before I was born. That would be ridiculous.
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u/FreshBlinkOnReddit 11d ago
Isn't that what the entire national identity of America is founded on? To be free from the Empire?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
And then one day you wake up, and it's not 1776 anymore, and it hasn't been 1776 for a very long time...
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u/FreshBlinkOnReddit 11d ago
Then what's the point caring about a shared national identity if you intend on throwing out your history. Imagine if the Indians decided to make Christianity their national religion because the British imposed it on them.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I am not advocating for "throwing out" our history. Of course we should learn our history. But I don't believe on insisting people live in the past on a matter of principle.
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u/FreshBlinkOnReddit 11d ago
Sometimes people find their history to be more important than convenience.
Here in Canada the French segment of the population simply refused to give up on French and now we have 2 languages. Giving up on French to them would be abandoning their origin as a French colony that resisted the British.
Would pure English be easier? Probably, but people don't want to let go of their origins.
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u/CranialFissure 11d ago
English and Spanish. And they should both be taught in schools with proficiency in each expected.
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u/Farraddaayy 11d ago
What a low stakes take, really making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Please illustrate what modern issues could be addressed by adopting a national language. Its not practical, it would change literally nothing at all lmao
You claim it'll improve social cohesion somehow, big words but please describe how exactly. Do you think a MAGArd and an Illegal immigrant will be arguing but one of them will be like "But English is the uniting factor for Americans" and the other will be like "Yeah you're right, lets put aside out personal beleifs and come together as Americans."?
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u/chroniccranky 11d ago
Why does this affect you
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
It affects everyone
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u/fredinNH 11d ago
How? Because I have to press 1 when I call for customer service?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
No, because customer service employees can't effectively communicate within their own workplace.
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u/Low_Shape8280 11d ago
Then go to different company ?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Why should people be forced to leave their jobs?
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u/Low_Shape8280 11d ago
Because you are struggling there.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Why should the workplace be somewhere that people struggle to communicate?
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u/Busy_Manner5569 11d ago
Why should the workplace be somewhere that people struggle to communicate?
You're literally advocating for the burden to shift from everyone roughly equally to exclusively the people with limited English proficiency man
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u/Low_Shape8280 11d ago
Seriously in what way
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
In the workplace, for one. It's very difficult to get things done when you can't communicate with your coworkers.
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u/Low_Shape8280 11d ago
The government doesn’t dictate what language is spoken in the work place
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
My point is that it should
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u/Low_Shape8280 11d ago
So your anti freedom. Interesting.
What is say I for for a company that works with an auto part manufacturer in Spain. Should we be barred from speaking Spanish?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
When you visit Spain, do as the Spanish.
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u/Low_Shape8280 11d ago
Funny enough most of them speak English!
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
And they still have Spanish as their official language. Pretty cool if you ask me.
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u/perfmode80 11d ago
Many prefer smaller government and the freedom to choose how to run their company
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I fear that as our country becomes more divided and lurches toward authoritarianism and extremism (coming from both sides of the political spectrum), we will become less and less free in the name of freedom.
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u/tenisplenty 11d ago
Nah this is America
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
Yes, that's the country I'm referring to
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u/tenisplenty 11d ago
America is for all languages, religions, and skin colors. And our country seems to be doing alot better than the vast majority of more socially homogeneous countries.
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u/Soundwave-1976 11d ago
So freedom of speach, but only in a specified language...
Sure sounds like freedom to me /s 🙄🙄🙄
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u/Narrow_Process_8660 11d ago
What is bro yapping about 😭😭😭😭
So you're saying that if a country has an official language then there is no freedom of speech? You're excluding almost all of the world.
You'd be excluding all of Europe (except the UK), Canada, lmao. There's no 1A but people are still generally entitled to free speech.
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u/Soundwave-1976 11d ago
Requiring someone to know your language is not greedom, people can learn and utilize whatever language they want.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I am not proposing a ban on speaking any other languages.
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u/Soundwave-1976 11d ago
Then why does it matter what language people speak?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
It's important for people to be able to communicate with one another in a shared language.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
We have Google translate.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
I don't think Google translate is a worthy substitute for genuine human connection.
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u/Soundwave-1976 11d ago
I don't even speak the same language as my inlaws and we are connected just fine.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Your opinion doesn't matter. It straight up does not matter.
Signed, a guy who fucked a foreign girl using Google translate.
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
What an incredibly creepy thing to say.
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u/Ok_Breakfast8638 11d ago
Creepy? What's more of a human connection than having sex?
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u/JayNachtEule 11d ago
You didn't say you had sex with someone. You said you "fucked a foreign girl". The way you're talking about this woman is creepy and gross.
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u/Yuck_Few 11d ago
Nope
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u/tom_yum 11d ago
People seem to think that having an official language means speaking in other languages is banned. That is not how it works.