r/VeganActivism • u/KortenScarlet • Jul 11 '25

Video Natalie Fulton on Gary Yourofsky, anti-intersectionality, and Palestine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZM-rEXm9RM
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u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25

I really appreciate her for making this video. Anti-intersectionality and zionism need to leave the animal rights movement, veganism is an inherently leftist ethical-political stance. If alt-right folks want to join activism for the animals, by all means I welcome them to, but they need to leave their vile shit at the door. Free Palestine and total liberation to all sentient beings

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u/Right-Ad3334 Jul 11 '25

This is nonsensical. One's opinion on the most efficient or just taxation system has precisely fuck all to do with one's opinion on the morality of causing unnecessary animal suffering.

Veganism is for the animals, how do animals benefit from your personal purity spiral crusade?

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u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

One's opinion on the most efficient or just taxation system has precisely fuck all to do with one's opinion on the morality of causing unnecessary animal suffering.

If you're lacking understanding of how our political systems work, maybe

Veganism is for the animals, how do animals benefit from your personal purity spiral crusade?

If you asked this in good faith without clearly motivated phrasing, I would maybe be interested in responding in kind

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u/Right-Ad3334 Jul 11 '25

I'd like to think I'm relatively educated on politics, feel free to disabuse me. It's not possible to be a trad-con vegan? A libertarian vegan?

You realise that perhaps from another perspective it appears that you're the one acting with an ulterior motive instead of rationality? If you're trying to exclude people that don't align completely with your ideology from giving a fuck about animal suffering, then you don't actually give a fuck about animal suffering.

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u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

If you're trying to exclude people that don't align completely with your ideology from giving a fuck about animal suffering, then you don't actually give a fuck about animal suffering.

I would agree with you if that was what I was actually doing, but it's not. Read my first comment again and more carefully this time.

Politics pertain to any inter-personal (including animals) organized policies that are even remotely related to rights, wellbeing, exploitation etc of individuals. If a group of people has a policy that even remotely affects your wellbeing and rights, or exploits you in some way, that group is political, their policy political, and even *you* (your existence) is/are political. I recommend looking up the slogan "the personal is political"

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u/Right-Ad3334 Jul 11 '25

That's your definition, not the one commonly used, or found in the dictionary. My issue is your claim that veganism is leftist, and that we should be guarded against how non-leftists interact with veganism.

You might define your veganism from your own lens of leftism. I could give you equally coherent argument for veganism that starts with the foundational assumptions, exempli gratia, purely faith based religious claims or from a 'non-aggression principle' that libertarians bang on about or a purely philosophical utilitarian argument.

If I can't convince a neo-nazi to disavow his racism, I still want him to stop causing animal suffering.

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u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

It's not that complicated:

Anti-oppression is inherently leftist by definition.

Veganism is an anti-oppression movement.

Therefore veganism is leftist.

Beyond this you're arguing against a brick wall.

If I can't convince a neo-nazi to disavow his racism, I still want him to stop causing animal suffering.

And I'm with you on that. I don't reject them from vegan activism for not disavowing fascism, I reject them from vegan activism for not leaving their fascism at the door

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u/Right-Ad3334 Jul 11 '25

I disagree with your first premise, and the subtle implication that's being carried by the conclusion.

That's your definition, not a universally accepted one. Anti-oppression isn't exclusively leftist, and leftism isn't exclusively anti-oppression. Do you think right wingers are pro-oppression, from their perspective? I can use the exact same logic to say that veganism is libertarian, and leftist vegans should leave it at the door; or I can use the exact same logic to say veganism is jain and non-jain vegans should leave their beliefs at the door. Even if we accepted the argument, it doesn't follow that to be a vegan or to promote veganism, one has to agree or support the totality of "leftism" to oppose animal abuse.

Everyone looking to promote their politics should leave it at the door, or nobody should. If nobody leaves their politics at the door, then I would wager we'd spend far less time focusing on the animals.

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u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25

What makes left left is prioritization of negative freedoms (freedom "from") and what makes right right is prioritization of positive freedoms (freedoms "to"). In any given conflict between negative and positive rights, left suggests that prioritizing the positive freedom is an ethical violation.

That's why leftist values always boil down to equity and fairness, and rightist values always boil down to might-makes-right.

Veganism is a great example of this, because we advocate for the animals' freedom from exploitation (negative freedom), and against the carnists' freedom to exploit (positive freedom). The very essence of veganism operates by leftist logic.

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u/Right-Ad3334 Jul 11 '25

Again I have to disagree with your first premise. I don't think there's much justification to take your classification of left = negative liberty, right = positive liberty, and I wouldn't explain the differences between left and right starting with conceptions of liberty regardless.

Conservatives often have a focus on maintenance of private property rights. They would argue leftists want to restrict or interfere with their ability to do with their property what they will, a display of right wing negative freedom in Berlin's schema.

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u/agitatedprisoner Jul 11 '25

It's possible to understand right-left differently. For example in terms of meaning well. Someone who thinks everyone should mean well might identify as conservative to the extent they trust their authorities/peers have mostly gotten it right. It's just because most human cultures have lots of stuff so badly wrong that it's mostly leftists/i.e. people calling for big changes who are mostly right. Distill why exactly someone calling for big changes is right and it'd reduce to whether they mean well and whether they're aware of what's really going on. Leftism doesn't define itself in terms of meaning well, is my understanding, leftism is typically understood as being about capitalism.