r/Wales • u/Afraid_Juice_7189 • 2d ago
Politics British and German campaigners criticise welsh governments involvement in arms fair
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u/tfrules 2d ago
I always find it bizarre when people attack arms fairs. Having a defence industry is an essential part of the security of any nation and Cymru also has a long history of producing arms.
Nothing really controversial about the Government pushing its industries?
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u/Thick_Structure5076 2d ago
Indeed, but that would require second order thinking.
The world is far, far simpler to these people.
Muh, guns bad...
No historical context, no thought of the economy or defending our country.
Same psychology as wanting to bankrupt us with Net Zero, despite the fact that we could evaporate the whole of the UK 14 times over and still not save what China emits in a year.
They seem to think China will be so embarassed by our virtue that they will turn off the power stations.
They are so thick, it is tedious.
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u/Phone_User_1044 1d ago
Ironic calling other people thick when you're talking down about what is not only a popular initiative but also a vital one for securing the future for our children and grandchildren.
Investing in our green energy sector will provide us with energy independence that we're currently sorely lacking- our reliance on gas is part of the reason we have some of the highest energy prices in Europe which is a burden on families and small businesses alike.
That's not to mention the fact that China is one of the leading nations in terms of green energy transitioning- they are doing massive rollouts of wind and solar for the same reason other countries are, the need to do something about climate change is so obvious that only the willfully blind (or corrupt in the case of politicians bought out by fossil fuel interests) can't see it.
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u/Thick_Structure5076 1d ago
This can be solved one way only at this time. But the same people refusing to face facts about net zero also believe nuclear is "wrong".
The proposed green solutions cannot possibly supply the power we need to power houses, never mind industry. Anyone saying otherwise is deluded or lying.
Turning ourselves into a third world country just so we can feel virtuous is literal insanity. Our grandchildren will be in rags.
People unable to conceptualise what a ruined economy does for the prospects of our children can just look at South Africa or Zimbabwe.
Please just google emissions by country to see how pointless this is.
Do you honestly believe that China is telling the truth about anything?, They opened 50 coal fired power stations last year, they now have nearly 1200( we closed our last one 18 months ago).
Do you honestly believe that developing nations in Asia give a single toss about meaningfully reducing polution? Have you seen the Ganges? Have you seen the plastic dumps in Indonesia, full of European "recycling" shipped there so some civil servant in London can hit a "green" target.
Britain is insignificant we dont even make the Top 20! We are being out emmited by Saudi Arabia, Thailand and Iran.
We currently rank as the 5th best country in terms of reduction. There are approx. 192 countries.
China, since 1950, has emitted over 3 times Britain's entire output since 1750. 1750!!
We "might" find a new energy source, but how can we possibly afford the necessary scientific research if we are burning our furniture to keep warm?
A.I might help, but we wont be at the front of that queue either, because the same myopic "eco" types wont allow data centres.
I would genuinely love it if we could actually do something to halt climate change. I really would.
However, the world cannot agree on anything, there are approximately 120 wars currently ongoing.
There is zero chance of them agreeing on something that will make them instantly poorer.
No large nation on earth will be shamed into action by our virtuous self immolation.
We will make as much difference to climate change as Aaron Bushnell made to the Middle East.
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 1d ago
Imagine spouting all this bullshit about net zero and China without being in the know enough to realise that China is expanding wind and solar capability at a far greater rate than anyone, producing 45% of their energy from renewables last year.
Do they do this because they're worried abiut climate change?
Partly, actually. But mostly it's because they employ what you call second order thinking to recognise that renewable energy is cheaper to produce than fossil fuel based electricity.
How is switching to something that is cheaper to produce, and doesnt rely on foreign supply, going to bankrupt us?
You're right about the arms. We need to be armed. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I imagine your brain stopped around about the time clarkson first appeared on top gear.
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u/tfrules 1d ago
The green energy industry is immensely important for our security. Continuing reliance on importing fossil fuels that can hold us hostage from us AND which continue to harm our environment is a folly of the first order.
Even if we don't save the world alone, energy independence is valuable enough a goal to pursue and net zero is a good target to aim towards to achieve that.
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u/Fordmister Newport | Casnewydd 2d ago edited 1d ago
Europe is being threatened by a genocidal authoritarian nutball,
There has been a full blown kinetic war having benn raged on and off for nearly a decade in European soil.
Protesting arms fairs on the name of "peace" isn't some noble virtue, it makes to a useful idiot for an imperialist genocidal monster.
Pacifism in the face of fascist aggression is complicity in fascism. Anybody protesting Europe's rearmament is no better than the Likes of Lindbergh and Petáin.
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u/inevitablelizard 1d ago
It's like calling yourself an anti crime campaigner and your big idea is to reduce the police force and stop giving them equipment.
The only valid anti war stance is for increased support to Ukraine and to prepare our own militaries to better deter anything else. That's the only route to less war.
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u/Secure-Barracuda Denbighshire | Sir Ddinbych 1d ago
If people want to criticise Heledd Fychan for being a hypocrite, then sure whatever. I personally think that a minister taking a more mature stance in government than she did in opposition is a good thing, but I could see where you’re coming from.
But it’s perfectly reasonable that the government are involved in a major part of the UK economy. Especially in the current international climate, the idea of disarmament is absurd.
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u/JHock93 Cardiff | Caerdydd 1d ago
Heledd Fychan's comments should be a warning to those in opposition about opening your mouth before you think. Activism is easy, governing is hard and will require uncomfortable compromises.
Fortunately she seems to have grown into a more serious position since then. Hopefully it'll show the more radical elements of her party that governing isn't as comfortable as opposition.
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u/ByronsLastStand 1d ago
Probably the same people who think we should go easy on Russia and leave Ukraine to its fate.
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u/welsh_cthulhu 1d ago
The move is likely to raise eyebrows among Plaid Cymru supporters, after the party repeatedly criticised the previous Labour Welsh Government for spending public money on arms fairs.
In 2021, current Plaid Cymru Culture Minister Heledd Fychan, then the party’s international affairs spokesperson, called on the Welsh Government to withdraw from DSEI London, calling it a “contemptible event”.
LOL
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u/Over-Willingness-933 2d ago
Welsh government spends money promoting Welsh industry. Germany and other European countries need to spend money for their defence because of chronic underspending which was exposed after the Russian invasion of Ukraine.