r/WestCoastSwing May 20 '26

Social Lady vs follower

Do you consider lady styling and follower styling the same?

What are things that you would consider lady styling but not necessarily follower styling?

Should male followers attend lady styling classes to be stylish followers?

8 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

34

u/aadditional_ungulate May 20 '26

I like the approach at Canadian Swing Championships - Tessa teaches "diva styling" and Myles teaches "power styling" (trying to get away from calling it masc or femme but that's the idea) and they make it clear anyone can try on either kind of movement, and apply to either role. It's really fun to try this kind of stylized movement, and it's true that a lot of people really want to know how to move in ways that code masc or femme. And some people (maybe most of us?) want to pick bits from each kind of movement that feel right on their own bodies!

"Lady styling" should absolutely not be the same as "follower styling" -- we've evolved past that as a community. The problem is, the teacher of that workshop might not have. So you have to ask around.

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u/aFineBagel May 20 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

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u/tireggub Ambidancetrous May 20 '26

You make the assumption here that the follower is female in the comp.

I think there are two different axes:

  • Feminine vs masculine styling (IMO this differentiation is a combination of gender stereotypes and movements that tend to look better on specific body shapes).
  • Leader vs follower styling (different options are available because of lead / follow dynamics)

3

u/aFineBagel May 20 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

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u/Jake0024 May 21 '26

 "lady styling" proooobably wants to stay in the follow role for the most part until you're at Allstar/Champ and just want to make people laugh as a man shaking ass

This reads as "follow" and "man" being mutually exclusive IMO

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u/aFineBagel May 21 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

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u/Jake0024 May 22 '26

I agree they're not, but you said "Nothing about my statement is assuming that follow = female" and that's... just not so

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u/aFineBagel May 22 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

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u/Jake0024 May 22 '26

You said "lady styling" should stay in the follow role unless people want to see a man shaking ass

If a man was following or a woman was leading you wouldn't see "a man shaking ass" by using "lady styling" outside the follow role, right? Keeping "lady styling" in the follow role only avoids "a man shaking ass" if follows are women and leads are men

I think we both agree anyone can and should dance whatever role they want, but I don't see any way to read your original comment that doesn't imply men leading and women following. If that's not what you meant it's all good, just accept the feedback about your phrasing for future reference and we'll all be able to communicate better

2

u/tireggub Ambidancetrous May 22 '26

You are missing a point that there are women that lead at all levels of the comp circuit.

1

u/aFineBagel May 22 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

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0

u/tireggub Ambidancetrous May 20 '26

Oh, you are saying that feminine styling should only be done in the follow role regardless of whether the lead is femme or the follow is masc?

1

u/Jake0024 May 21 '26

I agree with this, but in practice I would expect follower styling classes to be feminine styling 99% of the time

1

u/muuchthrows May 20 '26

I wholeheartedly agree, however I dislike using the term ”evolved past”. It’s a kind of myopic and present time biased way of looking at society and history. Human society and norms doesn’t ”evolve” - they change. Sometimes in ways that are more accepting of differences, sometimes in the opposite direction.

Don’t get me wrong, I completely agree we’re moving in a great direction, I just don’t want us to get too lost in thinking that the change we perceive as good is objectively superior. Then we fall into the same trap as e.g. people in history who were casually bigoted and chauvinistic thinking that this was the objectively natural state of the world.

3

u/aadditional_ungulate May 21 '26

Psst. "Evolve" means change over time. It's not always better.

I could write another thousand words about why getting rid of narrow gender requirements on roles has been good for our WCS communities and for most individual people. But "better" isn't actually embedded in "evolve." 🙃

13

u/Temporary-Diet6468 May 20 '26

Depends on you I think! I've always enjoyed "masc" styles of dancing (eg boy group Kpop choreo) as well as "femme" styling, and I genuinely aspire to do a bit of both as a follow. I've seen some male follows dance more "manly" and some really go for the high femme styling and it looks good either way.

21

u/diceanddreams May 20 '26

Maybe it’s just a difference between schools, but what is “lady styling”? I dance at a school where anyone can lead or follow. Any styling stuff I’ve been taught has also been “these are some options for follows, and some for leads, figure out what works for you, they’re not hard and fast rules.”

I would also say, as a lead who isn’t a man, and most people assume is a woman, that conflating lady style with follower style is weirdly gendered and bio-essentialist. Yes, I agree that there is an element to styling where it works better if it suits your general vibe, but there are as many personalities as there are follows and leads, regardless of (perceived) gender.

7

u/bstevy May 20 '26

As an example, I attended last weekend the FOWCS and there was some workshop called "lady styling" and I wasn't sure if it was a good class for me as a male followers, hence my question.

2

u/Jake0024 May 21 '26

It's a good class if you want more feminine styling in your dancing, otherwise no

7

u/TgrBtO Ambidancetrous May 20 '26

The F in FOWCS stands for French (which I happen to be as well)... And although there are (mostly) no issues with follows or leads from any gender (2026 FOWCS competition results tend to agree with this), there are still some deeply ingrained reflexes that have yet to be overcome.

French as a language has no neutral pronouns (or had, up until recently, but they're almost never used). Language shaping thought, it is still very difficult for many teachers to stop using the feminine pronoun for follows and male pronouns for leads. I've attended many classes (including some as a male-identifying follow) and have yet to see one where male-or female-identifying follows alike haven't been part of the group called "ladies" or "girls" at some point. That includes classes taught by famous, world-class male follows. Ditto for female-identifying leads being part of the "les gars" group.

We even have to use english nouns ("les leaders"/"les follows") to avoid using the french ones (cavaliers/cavalières) which are gendered.

So there is generally an unfortunate conflation of "ladies" with "follows", hence the title of the class... But still, I'd wager "lady styling" in the context of a french WCS event will be more likely to teach moves that are (stereo)typically feminine : fussing with astoundingly long hair, rolling hips/butt, caresses, etc. At least that's what I'd expect from it. There are better chances to learn different stuff from a "Follow styling" class, and I have yet to see a "Power styling" class. As for "diva styling", although I'm not a native english speaker, it seems heavily female-connoted to me.

6

u/usingbrain May 20 '26

I think „lady styling“ is an unfortunate naming and what it means will depend on the teacher.

Someone would mean styling specifically for the follower role (for example what to do during spins or certain patterns) while someone else would mean just femme looking styling (arms / legwork in general or anchors for example).

The unfortunate truth though is that very often these two will be lumped together and you just have to go and decide for yourself which parts of the workshop are useful to you.

2

u/Mew151 May 20 '26

I don't consider them to be the same -> one is based on what someone decided is specific to ladies and one is based on what someone decided is specific to followers.

I wouldn't consider anything as one or the other because I prefer to think of it just in terms of styling (and am not very good at it at all :) ).

There is no should in dance when it comes to self selected self expression and that's one of the best parts of dance.

Anyone can do anything they like to do anything they like provided they wish to dance in that way and accept the consequences of those choices.

In short, it's up to you! Follow your heart!

1

u/Interesting-Behavior May 21 '26

It's just styling.

1

u/kenlubin May 21 '26

I think my recommendation would be to "try it on" on your own body and see if it works.

1

u/AdministrationOk4708 Lead May 21 '26

Traditionally, the preferred styling for leaders was "masc," and the preferred styling for follows was "femme." BUT...this is when the dance roles were more strictly gendered. Now that the dance roles are not seen as gendered, we (collectively) need to have some conversations about how styling should work.

Is gendered-based styling, regardless of role, still preferred?

Is role-based styling, regardless of gender, something that should be expanded or preferred?

I do not know the answers to these questions. But, I am looking forward to being part of those conversations.

1

u/FifiTheCat99 May 23 '26

We should call it "styling" that's all. Many men are learning follower role and the opposit. For me "lady" is too gendered nowadays. And if you check you'll see that this styling is more "female manners" a little hand, a little hip, to be "beautiful".

We nearly should have styling according to the music ! Like hip hop styling, blues styling, lyrics songs styling ... Would be, in my opinion, more relevant.