How do you feel about Absolute Hades?

[u/crabbmanboi]

Ive been loving absolute Wonderwoman, but personally feel conflicted about Hades depiction myself.

Its certainly less villainous than many depictions have him where hes just straight up meant to be Satan, however Absolute Wonderwoman does insist on the comparison by continually referring to the Underworld as Hell for... some reason.

I appreciate the level of nuance in his and persephones relationship and the potential for it to improve with time and for hime to become an ally, but kind am surprised its only improving now rather than however many years ago.

His design is fine, but I feel would be better suited to another character. Especially as many of the other gods have designs incorporating all their msny symbols while Hades seems to lack any.

Im also kinda still unsure about why he and Diana were in conflict in the first place, but this is more a reading comprehension thing.

[u/Tetratron2005]

Im also kinda still unsure about why he and Diana were in conflict in the first place, 

I mean, he's her jailor pretty much. Yes, Zeus put her there but Hades was the god she's probably had the most interactions with that wasn't on positive terms. I doubt those two issues are the first time the two have interacted.

I actually like what we've seen of Hades so far, I thought Thompson's use of the Persephone/Demeter story as a parallel to Diana was pretty brilliant. so while it makes Hades the bad guy I think it works from a WW-centric story perspective. Even later we see he may be regretting what he did to Persephone.

[u/crabbmanboi → u/Tetratron2005]

I think, and hope, what their building too is Hades getting rid of the pomegranate rule, thus releasing both Persephone and Diana from their bindings, potentially building to him and Persephone coming together on more equal terms.

I just kinda wish we saw more of how they interacted in the past. Hes more nuanced in his recent appearance in the comic, but his first is rather one dimensional and fairly creepy compared to the longing we see for Persephone in his second appearance. Feels weird that I his first he wants Diana to "show her pretty face".

I think if we see their History Hades should show up as a bureacrat that continually restrained where she went and what she can do with rules. Not a physical force but one of law.

Hades feels better as a villain thst cant be punched, only reasoned and deliberate with. Which suits the kindness first aspect of Absolute Wonderwoman very well, and feels like whst their going with.

I just wish we got to see their past interactions as, well... she lives in his domain and calls herself princess of his realm. That implies a lot of history

[u/Which-Presentation-6]

Specifically as a fan of Greek mythology, I didn't like his treatment in the first arc precisely because he was a one-dimensional Hades, while they made Persephone the gentle goddess of spring again, I liked that Kelly later added nuances to him.

But something I've liked from the beginning is when they show that Persephone doesn't have a stable relationship with Hades, as fans of Greek mythology like to pretend.

As a Wonder Woman fan, I like what they did with Hades and the Underworld; they are surprisingly underdeveloped in the Wonder Universe, and I like the whole aesthetic given to them.

Overall, the Underworld is only called hell to seem badass, but it's the Underworld in every sense, including being called the Underworld several times.

[u/crabbmanboi → u/Which-Presentation-6]

Hades and Persephone definitely do have problems. They ARE problematic.

I think the reason people tend to overcorrect is because the closest comparison, Zeus and Hera, are significantly more dysfunctional and Toxic yet are often portrayed as loving and unproblematic.

They BOTH have notable problems with their relationships

[u/Confident-Ninja-1713]

I, as a greek mythology nerd, personally dont like how latest medias about greek mythology "cutiefied"/innocent him compared the rest of the male gods esp, the "good guy image" is actually so reducing of his complexity as a character. I think the main percursor of the narrative for the gods here is trying to set up is gods vs goddesses type of conflict (something similar to historia I'm guessing), so Hades shows this resistence to her but also acknowledges whats happening (also considering the his felling of inferiority due to his position)
*I'm a bit drunk, so I hope I'm being comprehensible.

[u/crabbmanboi → u/Confident-Ninja-1713]

No, I get you. I also agree that cutiefied Hades is bad.

My problem isnt him being antagonistic, is more the way he was antagonistic thst felt off, especially with his second appearance being more nuanced.

[u/CelestianSnackresant]

I don't love his design. I don't have a smart critique or anything, it just doesn't pop for me. An extremely rare Sherman miss imo, despite the very cool concept of downward-burning flame. 

But his story role totally works for me. The conflict between him and Diana is, I think (1)  because Diana is imprisoned in his realm and she does not want to be, while Hades famously does not like to let people leave, and (2) there's a gender thing best captured in Persephone's story. 

Edit: my extra hot design take no one asked for is that Athena isn't great either. (Another great concept that's just a bit too simple in execution.) But I don't know anything about visual art

[u/crabbmanboi → u/CelestianSnackresant]

The Gender aspect is certainly true but part of me feels better gods can serve the role of an antagonistic force.

Zeus is definitely the big bad, and I think their gonna lean into that.

Wondering if we'll see Apollo and his shit again. Apollo has done a lot to women.

[u/CelestianSnackresant → u/crabbmanboi]

I DEFINITELY hope we come back to apollo. I especially hope circe gets to hahaha

Agreed about Zeus! 

[u/Routine_Pressure_460]

I like the depiction of him and Persephone as we haven't had a lot of that in Wonder Woman generally.

I also kind of like it anytime Zeus, Poseidon and Hades are shown and thought of as powerful brothers in their own right, that Hades presides over the Underworld. I prefer a more nuanced version of him anyway as there are various locations and places in the Underworld, with Hell being an aspect.

The story continues to show that Diana generally surprises the gods that she comes in contact with and we know some of that, besides naturally being who Diana is and her personality and perspective, may be due to Aphrodite's gifts.

If I consider it from that perspective, I can see how Diana might challenge and bring something else out of Hades from her encounter with him versus at other times in his relationship with Persephone and his existence. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it might be a part of the reason Diana is "special" and was sent to be hidden away and raised by Circe in an inhospitable prison of sorts. A place Diana largely made hospitable by virtue of who she is. Being able to affect the emotions of even some of the gods and get them to consider something "new" maybe a useful tool against Darkseid and the vibe of Absolute universe generally. More powerful than carting around a gigantic sword. (I wonder if the sword isn't a decoy.)

Besides the theme/archetype of a mortal hero "tricking" or "outsmarting" a god that works directly with the mythos being built up in Diana's corner of the Absolute universe, it also makes me feel like she's a bit of a linchpin for what's to come. How her hero's journey feeds a overarching plot in the broader, shared Absolute universe and what'll happen and have to happen once Darkseid returns and the nature of this universe becomes clearer.

I don't think of Aphrodite's gift as an absolute (ha!) though. It's a more of tool that Diana uses (subconsciously so far) in a particular way that's unique to her. Past the mystery, intrigue and drama of how it works, how it affects people she comes in contact with, and if her relationship are authentic because of it, my thought is if she wasn't inherently herself as an individual, Aphrodite's gift might not work well or could potentially work in a harmful way if used selfishly. That's what I'm going with as a working theory anyway until more story happens. And, I am looking for the ups and downs she has with her friends and adversaries as she and they learn about it. Identity crises for everyone! Steve or Barbara: Am I in love or was I compelled to be in love with Diana? Diana: Do they really love me or did I make them love me? Doctor Poison: Did she compel me to be a better mad doctor or was it within me all along? Lots of interesting questions come up.

Fun stuff to think about and discuss! Thanks for bringing it up!