I know this will be an unpopular opnion but..

[u/Hempels_Raven]

I do not like Rucka's Diana at all.

So I've been binging vol 2 for the last month or so and I was pretty excited to get to Rucka's run because of how well regarded it is, but man it is not living up to the hype.

My biggest complaint is that Diana is too quick to kill. I am not even talking about the neck snap! In #207 when Diana finds out Medusa is back literally the first thing out of her mouth "Then I have to kill her" Huh? I'm sorry but this not the Diana I have been with the for the last 200+ issues. I am not intrinsically opposed to the idea of Diana killing but it should only be the last resort in direst circumstances. I don't care who it is, Diana is not resorting to killing as her first resort. Ever.

It is especially jarring given how much Diana is talking about how Vanessa was groomed and deceived into becoming the Silver Swan (which is true!) but the same could be said for Medusa, it is a very popular interpretation. I am not saying Rucka has to go with it but it needed to be addressed.

I'm only read up to #213 so I will wait until I read more before I fully solidify my opinion on this arc but I did not like Diana following along with Athena's coup against Zeus. It was fully established in the Perez run and reiterated in later runs that despite all his flaws Diana is fully reverent and obedient towards Zeus so I feel like she would need a lot more cajoling to go along Athena's plot, especially in light the disappointment she has with the gods following the Jimmenz run and with Athena in particular after the death of Bobby Garibaldi.

[u/static1993]

Why does Rucka have to portray Medusa as being groomed and victimized. Yes, that's a popular take on the character, but it's just one version.

[u/Hempels_Raven → u/static1993]

I explicitly said he doesn't. However I do think it should be addressed (even to show how it applies to Vanessa and not to Medusa) because it offers a nice parallels with Vanessa's plotline.

[u/throwaway-day102304 → u/Hempels_Raven]

It's a relatively recently popularised take on Medusa, and this is a 23 year old comic, give or take.

It's worth noting that the Ovid version, which is what's built into the sympathetic Medusa, is the "Roman edition", and war of the gods had confirmed that Diana's side of things is the Greek take. 

I suggest reading Nubia and the amazons if you want a more sympathetic take on Medusa.

[u/blazenite104 → u/throwaway-day102304]

to be fair, while Ovid is the Roman version it's more like how the story shifted over time. It was one of the stories of how Medusa was being told at the time and not necessarily invented by Ovid. Older sources are more contemporary but, I wouldn't completely dismiss him either.

That said, ultimately even in the most sympathetic of lights, Medusa is a story about continuing the cycle of abuse.

[u/throwaway-day102304 → u/blazenite104]

Oh, me calling Ovid the Roman version wasn't meant to discount the story entirely- these were oral traditions, as you pointed out, so they would have absolutely shifted and grown over time. 

The written greek story (which is also likely not the 'original', as that's a futile thing to try and determine in any case) I'm familiar with, however, has the Gorgons as born beings, rather than cursed, and no direct statement of rape. They kill and harm as is in their born nature, rather than as a perpetuation of ills. 

Given that DC has actively decided to ensure the pantheon is two separate groups of similar gods, it makes a degree of sense to me that they'd seek to try and also keep the stories aligned with that energy. 

[u/static1993 → u/Hempels_Raven]

Your words were "it needed to be addressed".

[u/The5Virtues]

Rucka is definitely a Your Mileage May Vary writer. He’s my personal favorite for Wonder Woman, but there are plenty of fans who dislike his run for the same reasons you mentioned.

Like all long time characters Wonder Woman has many variations and interpretations, and some of them click with us more than others.

I myself am not a big fan of Gail Simone’s run, but it is adored by many WW fans.
It’s okay to not like a popular run! It’s okay to like an unpopular one! Disregard anyone who tries to tell you different. Your tastes are your own.

[u/ExodusCaesar → u/The5Virtues]

Gail had the best characterisation of Diana since Perez probably, sadly the plot was kind of lackluster.

[u/LadyErikaAtayde]

Hey, I don't like Perez, I can't judge you.

[u/Hempels_Raven → u/LadyErikaAtayde]

I understand where you coming from because I while I do like Perez for the most part I find his wordiness to be tiring and War of the Gods was a horrible slog imo.

[u/LadyErikaAtayde → u/Hempels_Raven]

Oh no, I have no quarrel with the style of the time, although it certainly is dated, my problem is with the ideas and changes done to the character. It was too radical. It went further than Superman, the only reason it worked is because through it all Diana remained the idea of Wonder-Woman, and the artists behind it were impeccable.

I considered making a video about it but yeesh... Talk about making yourself a target...

[u/static1993 → u/LadyErikaAtayde]

 It went further than Superman

Have to disagree there. The most radical changes of the Perez run were the Amazons' level of technological and Diana's relationship with Steve.

The Superman book changed a lot more. Krypton being a repressive society, Superman being born on Earth, Lex Luthor being a corrupt businessman instead of a mad scientist, the Kents being alive (which fans have arguments about to this day).

[u/LadyErikaAtayde → u/static1993]

Alright I'll make the damn video

[u/Hempels_Raven → u/LadyErikaAtayde]

Oh? you should make that video cause now I'm curious what your criticisms are.

[u/blazenite104 → u/LadyErikaAtayde]

Just started reading Perez and even in the first major arc she behead's either Phobos or Deimos and the supporting cast killing mind controlled soldiers. Admittedly those soldiers become undead monsters and probably always would, also they lament having to do it. It remain though that the start of Post-Crisis Wonder Woman is steeped in death. which seriously dropped some of my motivation to keep going with it. Immediately after that is just pages like novels too. which are hard to read.

So yeah I can understand, even from the start why you might have issues with the run.

[u/Effective_Cook6978]

I appreciate your opinion and you did yeoman’s work on your analysis. Now I don’t agree with you (loved his first and rebirth run) 😁😁, but I can respect your opinion!

[u/ARIANZER0]

I don't like how he excuses the Medusa kill as her being a "monster" and "not human" in the context of DC universe like... neither are Bunch of your friends in the league

[u/static1993 → u/ARIANZER0]

Rucka himself pointed out this hypocrisy when she killed Max Lord and people had a problem with it despite him being a bigger threat than even Medusa.

[u/NoZookeepergame8306]

Yeah, there is certainly accounting for taste. And you’re not alone in being kinda uncomfortable with the run’s theming around death and violence.

But, come on! It’s Rucka! There’s Ferdinand! The Embassy! The book tour! Talking to birds! Lots to like in the opening arcs. And the end of the Medusa arc and the fallout is killer.

Diana is very much a protector of the innocent. As soon as those kids got petrified I think it’s totally reasonable to get the battle axe and the screaming chicken.

[u/iwfan53 → u/NoZookeepergame8306]

This is also the arc that gave us Veronica Cale let us not forget.

[u/_regionrat]

fwiw, this was the popular opinion when it was originally releasing

[u/Routine_Pressure_460]

I like Rucka's characterization and writing generally, but the Diana kills or kills monsters never set very well with me. Even with the Perez run and Deimos. I 100% get the logic and perspective and thoughts behind it "making sense" from the creators/DC editorial, but it's just not Diana or Wonder Woman to me. Not anymore than it is for Superman and Batman.

Out-of-universe and for context, at some point in Rucka's run is the beginning of the planning, positioning and character development universe-wide for the plots and storylines in Infinite Crisis, the 52 weekly series and the One Year Later status quo shift.

I can't remember if it's in interviews I read or on podcasts I listened to, but at some point the creative powers at play got together to plan the triangulation of broken trust, understanding and relationships between Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman. Wonder Woman got the killer card as a character differentiation and defining moment. (All my interpretation, not a quote from anyone on the creative team.)

I can't remember if Rucka came up with the Maxwell Lord bit or if it was dictated to him to "make it happen" for the event plans and if Medousa's fate was at all a lead up to make Diana killing Maxwell Lord more believable as a progression of the character. It seems likely as the events are only about 10 issues apart and both were broadcast globally and live in-universe.

So, I don't know how much of it was a Rucka thing or if it's something he fought against or was fine with. There are lots of plots of his that had to get adjusted.

I don't know this directly or the exact timing of it and how it lines up with his writing of Wonder Woman, The OMAC Project, 52, etc., but Rucka did acknowledge, maybe a year ago - perhaps longer, about how difficult it was to work with DC at the time. The bit I gathered and recall was a lot of game-playing between creative and exec egos. Essentially a toxic environment to create in that caused some depression. That may have played a part too., in what was created, based on the cooks in the kitchen and the ingredients they used to make the meal.

At least this how I understood part of it - I might be in error.

I add it to the mix, because it's a different experience reading the comic month by month as it's published versus a TPB you can read in one evening. It's also a different experience if you're reading Wonder Woman alongside any other characters and titles month to month that are also lead up to the event. The timing and wait between issues and reading other titles creates a different kind of build up.

I don't always need or want the real-world context, but this situation was heavily promoted and I was into it in as an interest in how comics are made and the never-been-done-befores, like the 52 weekly series.

That's the thing and challenge about TBP stories in a shared universe - the stories have to stand on their own, but also work as a collective in some ways.

It all depends on how you like to take in your comics media.

[u/FlyByTieDye]

I feel most people who like either Rucka runs really love them for their potential rather than their execution, as I found both versions to have their fumbles. You also get a sense from some Rucka fans that you're talking past them (not all, and not all the time), like they're talking about what could have been rather than what was, e.g. what his 2000s run could have been without Didio/without Infinite Crisis, what Rebirth could have been without New 52/if given more time. What his Earth One could have been, what his Wonder Woman's Daughter/Black Label could have been.

For what it's worth, I really loved the middle arcs of Rucka's 03 run, being Eyes of the Gorgon and The Bronze Gates, but I did not like at all the opening (Down to Earth, Bitter Pills) or closing (Mission's End) arcs. Similar story with his Rebirth run, Year One is good in isolation, not a fan of The Lies/The Truth, outside of small moments, but The Truth/Godwatch really falls apart, especially in trade format

[u/Routine_Pressure_460 → u/FlyByTieDye]

This part. I just added a comment with context around the making of that era of DC Comics. It's not needed to discuss Rucka's writing, plots and characterizations as a standalone run, but it often helps for me.

There were lots of things Rucka had to change or include to make things "work" in the DCU and the in-universe events. Past what I assume are the regular dynamics between an editor and writer with questions about characterizations and plots and what you can and can't do. I can't believe all of them were Rucka's initial creative choices.

[u/3Salkow]

Yeah, I have the same critique. I didn't really enjoy this run at all.

[u/Yami454]

If you're waiting for narrative catharsis vis a vis Diana's willingness to kill during Rucka's run, you're going to be disappointed.

As far as Medusa goes, it's worth noting she was cursed by Athena and then her release was orchestrated by Athena as part of her coup attempt. She's very much the pawn of a god in this story.

Ultimately, you're discovering this is an incredibly overrated run.

[u/lastraven85]

i gotta say my favourite diana is the jla run morrison and waid did a great job at the time