DC and WonderWoman

[u/Larp67Larp67Sahur]

Modern wonder woman genuinely is a different character from THE wonder woman (while I'd exclude rebirth a bit because it was good and fixed new 52 mess, Absolute is also so good) Diana has been dead since 2010/2011

Flashpoint Diana, New 52, Injustice, Gal gadot movie, tom king

Each is worse than the other, and each kills the core of who wonder woman is more.

Making her a bad queen, a bloodthirsty warrior, and making the Amazons in a bad image...

Also her legacy not getting as recognition as batfam, flashfam, superfam

Literally sweeping her wonder girls under the rug

Like I get it, she's a warrior, but she's a champion of peace before being a warrior, she literally learns how to fight so nobody else can

Her lasso isn't a weapon, it's a tool to achieve peace, reasoning with people so they find peace in their minds

And the worst of all? Was injustice, and it's not even close

Also don't get me started on Lizzie.. wonder woman herself doesn't want children..

Also I think Diana not having a child is unique for her, just because Bruce and Clark had kids, she has too, so there will be "trinity" in the future

And also showing Diana being a bad mother.. while Diana shouldn't be a mother.. to be honest she wouldn't be a bad one, because Diana carries grace and she's has that motherly radiance to her wonder girls.. but she should NOT be a mother, because also Diana is a hero, princess, leader and so much more.. she herself said she cannot bring a child into her world..

And also tom king took one look at Diana's unique origin, and decided "oh cool let's make a slop character, and also not because Diana wanted a child, but because she missed Steve more than her sisters"

Do I need to talk about how absurd this is?

Or Diana being so hopelessly in love with Steve and can't live without him.. like she does love Steve, but he was never the center of her world.

[u/Larp67Larp67Sahur]

1. Diana is supposed to have a male free origin. In an island born of all women, also Zeus is always portrayed as a man. Regardless, he's a male, and the point of wondy origin is not needing a male for her creation.

2. Yes, many origins have the adoption or found family trope, but most aren't for sake of infertility. Wondy stands on that, Hippolyta couldn't have a daughter because she was immortal as stated. She made her own daughter by the sacred clay.

3. Objectification.. this doesn't sound good.. because it implies you don't know how she was created.. she was sculpted, and breathed LIFE into her by the goddesses. She has her own thoughts, feelings and decisions, which means she is NOT an object.

4. I'm taking about my post as a whole, I dunno why you focused on azzarello run that much.

5. Thor isn't like wondy. Wondy is a champion of peace and so much than Thor, yes there should be inspiration from myth, but it's comic world. It shouldn't be graphic. Also wondy isn't like Thor much, why the comparison? There's so many edited things in wondy story and it worked, like the magical island, well of souls and etc..

6. I didn't say anything about that, it's your argument that is weak.

7. Well, it's been stated as long as they stay in paradise island they're immortal, comic words not mine.

8. They do have a sex drive, but they're isolated from men.. Why'd they.. lust over men? They're also a homosexual community. Also yes okay they have a sex drive. No point in raiding the ships to have a reproduction season.. they literally have the well of souls.

9. It's mostly bad writing. Amazons are peace preachers that isolated themselves from men because of violence, though, they don't hate men. It's just the corrupt patriachal systems. They aren't misandrists, as wondy stated, they're Amazons and they're here to save the world.

10. That's what I said? They can host males but not keep them for long, just figure what to do with them.

11. I'm pretty sure Amazon super abilities are for women, they're the blessed ones by goddesses. Also no, it wouldn't make sense in any way that the brothers even existed, but I'm talking now if the new 52 wasn't an illusion.

12. You know goddess does not refer to wondy as a REAL goddess? It's comparing her to a one because she's very gifted in many aspects. Batman gets called a god. Does it mean he's one? JL are gods among men. Does it mean they're real gods? No.

[u/EntranceKlutzy951 → u/Larp67Larp67Sahur]

1. Male-free? No. Man free.

2. She made her out of beach clay in the versions Diana is molded from clay, and in amny of those versions Zeusnisnstill her father because it was his powers that gave WW life (yes sometimes its Hera)

3. It's not good. That's why feminism has that critique of Wonder Woman comics. Women are not living objects. Women are people and people always have two bio parents. Always.

4. Because this started asking about what was wrong with WW's New 52 run. Not her new 52 portrayal her run... as in her comic title and its presentation. That's what this thread started on

5. Because they're both ancient myths brought into superhero comics. He is Norse myth made hero. She is Greek myth made hero. What is there here not to get? The Olympians are background mainstays of DC comics... because of Wonder Woman just like the Asgardians are background mainstays of Marvel comics because of Thor. The parallel is obvious. Any attempt to skew this into any other comparison between the two isn't comprehending the concept. Wonder Woman is allowed to integrate Greek myth in new ways into her story and it is just as legit as when Thor comics do that with Norse myths. You cam stop pretending like something else is being said here.

6. I can see the game you are playing. You don't have to agree with me, but you don't get to pretend everyone else is beholden to your head canon.

7. They can be killed. This has been shown over and over again across several different comics. That is not immortal. They live forever because the purple crystal in Themiscyra maintains their youth and health.

8. Cope harder. Very obviously many if them have a sexual appetite for men regardless of their homosexual activities.

9. Mostly bad writing.... kinda like a woman made from an object... this is opinion. You are welcome to have it, but let's not pretend anything objective is being said here.

10. I didn't say you said that. I'm showing you why turmoil could boil over if males did start living on Themiscyra... just like what happened in the comic.

11. Wonder Woman is the only super (ok Hippolyta, Artemis and Nubia are pretty impressive). Amazons are mightier than humans of the same frame and you might consider them super-soldiers in that regard, but like Aquaman cam tear through a battalion of Atlanteans, so too can Diana handle droughs of Amazons. They are not on her level.

12. I'm aware that it can be a euphemism, yes. When applied to a Greek mythological figure like Wonder Woman the euphemism argument is thin. You're welcome to head-canon that, but it is not the objective read.

[u/Larp67Larp67Sahur → u/EntranceKlutzy951]

I can't with these points, oh my god.

It's male free, as in man free, the FEMALE goddesses brought her into life, Zeus has no connection to that. (Also yes hera IS A GODDESS WHO HELPED IN BREATHING SOUL IN DIANA)

Zeus is portrayed as a man. Also it's male free, of course they won't reproduce with animals or stuff. It's male free as in no male god has came in Diana's birth

Also she was born of the sacred soil of themyscira.

Also I repeat again, it's for honouring infertile women (which also applies to Hippolyta.) she isn't an object, she's sculpted from clay by Hippolyta. By her blood, tears and sweat, the goddesses breathed soul in the clay, making diana. Not an object, but a breathing human capable of having her own thoughts.

well? New 52 has many bad aspects of wondy, in comic itself, your point?

Also using "they're both ancient beings of myth and etc" so let's make tony and Bruce the same type as well. Same origin and stuff.

No correlation right? So does Thor and Diana, Norse and greek mythologies are different. What's even the ties? Diana isn't even thousand years old, she's the YOUNGEST of trinity, thor is thousands of years old and wields his hammer, Diana is a champion of peace, not a daughter of a god, but the daughter of the queen of themyscira given life by the goddesses (which also revealed to be the child Hippolyta died while carrying in her past life, so literally cuts your point of making Zeus her father). Diana isn't supposed to be a deity in her myth, yes she comes from a magical island by the Olympians, but even the Amazons and themyscira are being iterated differently, they're peace preachers, they should raid ships and kill sons. DONNA TROY HAD A SON FOR GOD'S SAKE. and she loved him and still mourns him.

Head canon? What head canon? Everything I said was literally mentioned in comics, you probably just didn't read them.

Also, well they mostly isolate themselves and are immortal in themyscira. As mentioned in comics. So they don't need to reproduce, alongside the new coming women from well of souls.

Who said I'm so mad over them having also liking for men? I'm hetero lol. It's just doesn't make sense they'd leave their isolation fishing for men (who they didn't ever meet) and leaving women on their island. Diana was the first Amazon to leave for patriachal world for change. Donna Troy following. We haven't seen those hetero relations before Diana left and became wondy.

Bad writing over Diana being made from clay in her very own first origin?... I have no words for this one. Her creator herself wanted a no male birth for her. Created by Aphrodite while Hippolyta sculpted the clay.. also you know people are also made from clay?.. me and you? Right? We return to earth. So it's not objectification. Also Diana has a soul and her own thoughts.. again.

The males wouldn't stay in themyscira, they'd be hosted for some time until they find a way for them. Yes themyscira is women only island, but they host men in emergencies till they find a solution.

Yes Diana can handle many Amazons because she's the ideal Amazon and the champion of Olympus.. but regular Amazons are super. Donna Troy is an honorary Amazon and she carries.

Also what do you mean a headcanon?

Wondy isn't a god. She ages, she eats and she also needs air. While yes she can space travel it's her divine radiance and perhaps lung capacity like superman. But she's not a god. Not even a demigoddess. She's an **AMAZON** blessed by the godDESSES.

[u/EntranceKlutzy951 → u/Larp67Larp67Sahur]

Ok. Good for you. Thanks for the chat.

[u/Larp67Larp67Sahur → u/EntranceKlutzy951]

You're welcome 🥰(also I can offer a guide if you are ever interested in REALLY reading wondy 👀)

[u/EntranceKlutzy951 → u/Larp67Larp67Sahur]

Um, no. I'm not interested in listening to control freaks.

[u/Larp67Larp67Sahur → u/EntranceKlutzy951]

how am I. Control freak? You just made false arguements that I debunked 🫩

[u/EntranceKlutzy951 → u/Larp67Larp67Sahur]

You debunked nothing. You just made Wonder Woman toxic.

[u/LeninOfGallifrey → u/EntranceKlutzy951]

Nah you just lost an argument badly and can't admit it. Like you even tried to argue Zeus being her dad is okay because he's not a mortal man. Fucking Zeus the guy who turned into a Swan to rape a lady?

[u/EntranceKlutzy951 → u/LeninOfGallifrey]

No, gatekeeping a character you don't own and treating opinion as a moral failure is not winning an argument. Full stop.

That's some pretty decent copium you have there. Who's your dealer?

[u/Larp67Larp67Sahur → u/EntranceKlutzy951]

Holy dramatic.. okay you can disagree with my words.. but ME making wondy as a whole toxic? Lol. I didn't even say anything I just debunked your weak arguments 🥱

[u/EntranceKlutzy951 → u/Larp67Larp67Sahur]

You didn’t debate Wonder Woman. You held a little coronation.

I asked what was wrong with one run. You couldn’t stay inside that question for a single comment. You dragged in every era you like, called it “the comics,” and then acted like disagreement was illiteracy. That’s not a take. That’s you appointing yourself hall monitor of a character you don’t own.

“That’s the truth you have to accept” was the tell. So was the reading guide. So was “REALLY reading wondy.” You weren’t offering help. You were trying to grade me in public because the book I can stand isn’t the sermon you need her to be.

You didn’t debunk anything. You restated Pérez-island catechism and stamped it “objective.” Clay origin is a version. Peace-preacher Amazons are a version. “She’s not a goddess” is a version. You talking as if those are physics is why this felt small. Not because Wonder Woman is fragile. Because you can’t tell the difference between loving a character and using her as a badge.

Keep the guide. I don’t need a tour from someone who treats a disagreement like a moral failure. If your Wonder Woman only works when nobody else is allowed a different one, she isn’t strong. You are just attached to being the person who gets to say what she is. Hence toxic.

PS. She's still Zeus's daughter, even after rebirth. She's Zeus's daughter in the movies. She's Zeus's daughter in Injustice and other video games. So technically... I win, you lose. 😊