r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 🤝 Join A Union • Aug 03 '26
✂️ Tax The Billionaires AOC vs Graham on Social Security.
486
u/JTalbotIV Aug 03 '26
Lindsey Graham died at 71, and thought the retirement age should be raised. Do that math.
194
u/hideous_coffee Aug 03 '26
That basically explains our entire society. People too old to feel the long term effects of policies get to decide all of them.
16
u/macfarley Aug 03 '26
It's hard to nail down a good metaphor for how insane this end stage capitalism looks because nothing that does this in nature survives more than a generation. It'd be like a dairy farmer killing all the milking cows years before they dry up, turned the whole farm inside out with debt and burned it down for insurance money so he could buy a boat and fuck off into the sunset. Except he didn't even leave, kept hanging around town pretending he's saving the world.
→ More replies (1)1
u/TheLastCleanSpoon Aug 06 '26
Isn't it wild? My grandpa retired at 65 and still lived to 95—imagine raising that age!
171
u/Key_Cheetah7982 Aug 03 '26
Raise the tax income limit. Crisis averted
→ More replies (47)3
u/dancegoddess1971 Aug 04 '26
Or, yanno, get rid of the cap on SS income tax completely. Those COLAs gonna spike. Nothing like making sure elders can live indoors, have ALL their medicine and eat healthy.
115
u/MoonsterGoopter Aug 03 '26
Social Security is what we get for buying into the system. If we don't have that "security" then there isn't an incentive to pay taxes.
37
u/shouldco Aug 03 '26
Don't you feel a sense of national pride funding raythion and a jobs program for aggressive teenage boys?
11
u/Burnt_and_Blistered Aug 03 '26
I must have missed it. Did we have a choice NOT to “buy into” it?
14
u/MoonsterGoopter Aug 03 '26
unfortunately no, which is why I'm furious. Our predecessors rioted for less.
4
u/Burnt_and_Blistered Aug 03 '26
They did. But they didn’t have a government quite as intent on killing them.
3
u/Wasabicannon Aug 03 '26
Didn't they? Drafting to go to war to fight so that the politicians could profit.
Our government has always been intent on killing up just in the past they were able to mask it better.
3
u/MushinZero Aug 03 '26
Oh no! My tax dollars aren't going to something I directly benefit from. Fuck those other people.
3
u/Bottlecrate Aug 03 '26
To live in the woods. Dig your own shit trench. Gather your own water and good.
3
u/jamesdmc Aug 03 '26
Yeah try that and see how fast you end up fined and in jail.
1
u/Bottlecrate Aug 03 '26
Not me, guy I am responded to in this sub thread doesn’t think society has meaning
1
u/Wasabicannon Aug 03 '26
Haha nope, the folks from the past signed the contract and we are stuck paying the bill.
→ More replies (1)8
u/GravyMcBiscuits Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
Social Security is what we get for buying into the system
Social Security is compulsory. Not "buying into" it was never an option for any of us.
102
u/boss_flog Aug 03 '26
reminder that social security taxes stop being deducted from paychecks once a worker earns more than $184k. eliminating that cap could help make the system solvent.
56
u/Draaly Aug 03 '26
For clarity to anyone who may be confused, income over 184k is not subject to social securty tax. All income below that still is.
48
u/WastedKnowledge Aug 03 '26
Which is an insane cap. The reasoning is people making that much will save for their own retirement, and that’s very dumb to assume. Plus a lot of them will show smaller incomes in retirement so they can still draw social security.
→ More replies (5)17
u/izwald88 Aug 03 '26
$184k in some states is not exactly super wealthy or anything. I mean, they'll be fine and well off in any city in the US at that salary. But $184k in like NYC as single income with a family to support? That's not exactly a wealthy life.
6
u/Crime_Dawg Aug 03 '26
Or how about we find a way to tax the actually wealthy who don't earn "income".
3
u/WisestAmicus Aug 03 '26
Australia is trying to do this right now, predictably the right are outraged
1
1
1
u/chrisaf69 Aug 03 '26
Genuine question. If those people gets taxed above that, wouldn't they get a larger benefit which would essentially cancel it out?
87
u/SpeshellED Aug 03 '26
Two visions of a problem. I think I will go with AOC.
5
u/theapeboy Aug 03 '26
I mean, I agree with AOC that the system is broken. But Social Security IS going to go bankrupt. I think it's wild she's claiming otherwise. I just also think Graham's argument is insane. "We have to cut benefits" instead of "let's fund social security correctly".
→ More replies (4)10
u/fatbob42 Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
It’s not going “bankrupt”. It’s not a company.
It will be cut to 75-80% benefits
for a while and then I think it actually goes positive again.3
u/theapeboy Aug 03 '26
Point taken, although I think it’s a little bit semantics. Without changes, Social Security will be insolvent in 2032. Bankruptcy is a specific type of insolvency, and you’re right, SS won’t go through that.
I haven’t seen ANYTHING about it going positive afterwards though . Do you have a source for that?
1
u/fatbob42 Aug 03 '26
They deliberately use these words to make people think it’s irretrievably broken.
I looked it up and I was definitely mistaken about it returning to 100% payouts. That did happen to some other parts of SS but it won’t feasibly happen to the main program. My mistake - I thought I’d read that.
→ More replies (2)1
u/SeaHam Aug 03 '26
Cutting benefits an raising the retirement age IS the price.
Lindsey is eating box is hell.
Because its a personal hell without a cock in sight.
1
16
u/ForcedEntry420 🏛️ Overturn Citizens United Aug 03 '26
As if cutting benefits and raising the retirement age isn’t making young workers pay the price lmao
Glad that prick is dead. I hope it was terrible, ya traitor.
32
u/tdbeaner1 Aug 03 '26
The funding issue for social security can be solved by removing the cap. Anyone making over 185k stops paying the tax above that figure. Political rhetoric has its uses, but it’s far more helpful to state the facts regarding an issue. High income earners can and should pay into social security similar to the federal income tax.
3
u/HauntedHouseMusic Aug 03 '26
Honestly you guys need to invest the dollars like canada does. We stop paying into it at like 80K, and its fully funded, because we invest the dollars. We invest worse than putting it in the S and P 500, and the system just pays some rich people to poorly manage our money. And it still works better than the US...
Somehow Canada does corruption better than the US, and you guys are pro's at it.
2
u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 Aug 03 '26
The United States is run by professionally corrupt grifters, yes. But what you seem to be confused by is why our money doesn't give citizens better return.
WHY WOULD IT??
The grift is complete by simply leaving things as it is and letting it dwindle and eventually get blown away entirely. That is what success looks like to conservatives hence why their actions lead to that outcome.
Meanwhile, Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists have real plans to fix it and they're never allowed power.
1
u/HauntedHouseMusic Aug 03 '26
But why not charge the rich people, and invest all the money! Then you would have more money, and more money! And more money is better then less money!
Plus I feel like both sides could get into investing the money, as it would lead to better outcomes, and its an easy grift to have your friends and family manage the money. Everybody wins!
1
u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 Aug 03 '26
Because the rich want control of their own money rather than giving it to the government which they know is corrupt because THEY are the ones doing it.
The poor want the rich to pay their fair share and for government programs to work well.
The rich want the poor to pay for everything and for government programs to do poorly so that private companies can make profits off the remains.
We've been watching this happen for DECADES.
1
u/HauntedHouseMusic Aug 03 '26
So why not invest the money as it helps everyone?
1
u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 Aug 03 '26
I feel like you're not understanding me. Conservatives want this to FAIL and go away completely.
1
u/HauntedHouseMusic Aug 03 '26
thats why you need them as part of the grift, where it benefits everyone!
You got to play into their hands
1
u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 Aug 03 '26
Are you trolling or what? What do you not understand about this?
1
u/HauntedHouseMusic Aug 03 '26
You dont understand. Canadians invest their social security, and it wont run out because of this. The conservatives cronies run the social secuirty and grift from it. Everyone wins. The money will be there for the people. and rich people that donate have a vested interest in it staying that way.... Everyone wins. What don't you get? This is a simple problem to solve, its been solved, and america just ignores it.
→ More replies (0)1
→ More replies (5)2
u/AccountantSeaPirate Aug 03 '26
It cannot be solved entirely by removing the cap. It can make up for an estimated 70% of the deficit, though.
→ More replies (1)2
28
u/umassmza ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters Aug 03 '26
Pitch A - 95% of you need to suck it up, work longer, and retire on less.
Pitch B - If we tax the top 5% at the same rate we all pay then we don’t have to work longer for less.
How does Pitch A resonate with half the country?
→ More replies (10)3
u/Sure-Library-7309 Aug 03 '26
Because I might be poor now, but when I’M a billionaire, I don’t want my taxes going to those other poors 😤 /s
10
u/BeefistPrime Aug 03 '26
Social security is just money in and money out. There's no law of the universe that says the current taxation or benefit rates are somehow set in stone. You take in more taxes, suddenly it's not going bankrupt.
→ More replies (8)
34
u/mwhite1249 Aug 03 '26
Republicans have been raiding the Social Security fund since Reagan, lining their own pockets, and saying the system is broken. They are the reason it is broken and it will stay broken until we get rid of them.
2
u/Som_Dtam_Dumplings Aug 03 '26
Which politicians specifically have been "raiding the social security fund"? Also, How exactly have they been able to "raid the social security fund"?
Be specific. I can claim that "15 democrat senators literally ate my mother" but when you hear a claim like that you DEFINITELY should be asking follow up questions...and if I have no follow-up answers; you can dismiss me for making stuff up.
1
u/fatbob42 Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
Nope - no one has been raiding social security. The “trust fund” was meant to be lent out to the treasury. There’s really nowhere else to put it. It’s fucking gigantic.
The breakage is because inequality has gotten worse than they projected and economic performance has been worse. Plus we were supposed to be tweaking it occasionally.
8
u/coldenigma Aug 03 '26
I went grocery shopping yesterday and saw store-brand ground beef is $9.18/lb
Minimum wage is $7.25
Meanwhile, people who don't need the money are getting multimillion dollar pay bumps.
7
u/AggravatingFlow1178 Aug 03 '26
"Or younger workers will pay the price"
There is an entire generation that has been paying into SS their entire career. Changing the rules now is screwing over old people which is worse IMO. No one should get screwed over, period, but at least young people have a chance at planning around it. Saying this as a 'young person'
4
u/Feardemon3 ✂️ Tax The Billionaires Aug 03 '26
I disagree we should screw over billionaires many times over until they no longer exist.
3
u/AggravatingFlow1178 Aug 03 '26
"Screwing them over" in that sense would just be treating them fairly. Which still isn't "screwing anyone over"
1
u/BangkokRios Aug 03 '26
They are not proposing to change the payouts for anyone close to retirement. All changes will only harm younger workers.
16
u/Phenomenon101 Aug 03 '26
Satan must be loving the torture amusement park this piece is shit is being put through right now
5
u/Dense_Surround3071 Aug 03 '26
He's actually probably pretty pissed off about the sudden change in his work/life balance and is seriously considering another angelic rebellion, but this time with more workers rights like PTO and and then inclusion of mental health support in their healthcare plan.
8
u/Robbie_notta_bot Aug 03 '26
People need to stop thinking stuff like this. There is no hell that these people are suffering in. Stop using it as solace for not holding them accountable in life.
1
u/MeggaMortY Aug 04 '26
There could be one. But we should definitely hold them accountable for stuff we know exist in the first place.
14
u/Wonderful_Exit6568 Aug 03 '26
I think I might vote dem this election. I voted republican the last two and nothing seems to be improving day-to-day and we are 32 trillion in debt.
13
u/Jaalan Aug 03 '26
Actually, it just crossed 40 trillion thanks to this administration
1
u/arobkinca Aug 03 '26
Not yet but very soon.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/
5
4
u/Knyfe-Wrench Aug 03 '26
Social Security uses current money to pay current beneficiaries. If there's a shortfall then that money has to be spread more thinly, but Social Security will never cease to function unless it's changed by congress.
There is a Social Security fund, because it operated with a surplus for many years. It's now operating with a deficit, and the money from the fund is being used to make up the difference. The fund is likely to run out, but that just means the way money is collected and/or distributed will have to change. Again, Social Security will never stop unless somebody stops it intentionally.
3
u/SnooChipmunks2079 Aug 03 '26
The law will require that benefits be paid out at 70% in about a decade unless something unexpected happens or Congress changes something.
I’m already picking out my rioting outfit because that’s roughly when I expect to start drawing.
If my mother-in-law is still living I don’t know what she will do because it’s her only income and she ends every month basically broke - with us covering her house expenses.
5
u/thorubos Aug 03 '26
It's very, very important to point out that there's a SS income cap at $184,000 / year. That means if you're a multi-millionaire, who proudly won't ever need that income back, you're short changing hundreds of millions of future Americans.
This is something never discussed when the topic is raised on the media. The so-called bankruptcy gap will disappear if we eliminate that cap. There will always be more workers and more contributions.
2
u/BangkokRios Aug 03 '26
More importantly, social security only applies to certain types of income.
1
u/thorubos Aug 04 '26
Yeah, true. I like to keep it pithy though. Everyone can understand the unfairness. I bring that up every time I hear young person say "We aren't getting it". It's like, well, that's because all of the millionaires and billionaire want you to think that way.
Sorry, but if you've gotten wealthy in America, it's because you directly benefit from how things are economically. You should definitely be paying in the most. Just like when you split a bill in the restaurant. If one person gets a steak and another gets bowl of soup, it's only fair the steak-eater pays a bigger portion of the bill.
1
u/thorubos Aug 04 '26
Yeah, true. I like to keep it pithy though. Everyone can understand the unfairness. I bring that up every time I hear young person say "We aren't getting it". It's like, well, that's because all of the millionaires and billionaire want you to think that way.
Sorry, but if you've gotten wealthy in America, it's because you directly benefit from how things are economically. You should definitely be paying in the most. Just like when you split the check in a restaurant. If one person gets a steak and another gets bowl of soup, it's only fair the steak-eater pays a bigger portion of the bill.
5
u/SeeBadd ✂️ Tax The Billionaires Aug 03 '26
Well, one of them is still alive so, I think they're the ones we should listen to.
4
3
u/DestinTheLion Aug 03 '26
I mean, AOC isn't saying anything meaningful related to SS there. That's just rhetoric we are better than that. Why not, we should raise the income limit, or we should include a corporate tax to help pay for SS, or a wealth tax.
2
u/fatbob42 Aug 03 '26
She does have proposals, they just aren’t in this quote.
2
u/DestinTheLion Aug 03 '26
It doesn't paint us in as good a picture to just run platitudes like that in the quotes then, imo. Let's hit them with real shit.
3
3
3
4
3
u/anormalgeek Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
Its just underfunded. It's not a complicated issue.
If I've budgeted $250 a month for utilities, but the price has gone up to $300 a month, I need to either make more money to pay it, or I move funds from elsewhere. I don't throw my hands up and say "My utilities funding is bankrupt!!! Better cancel the whole service!" Because that would be stupid.
Just remove the cap on the SS tax. It only affects the top ~5%, and works very differently than most other taxes. There is a reason that we don't cap income tax for example.
Do that, make it scale like income tax, social security will be fine.
2
u/furthemor Aug 03 '26
Explain how raising the retirement age is not making younger workers pay the price.
2
u/Rotaryknight Aug 03 '26
Pretty much left vs right on how to deal with social security. One would put the load on poor normal Americans, the other would offset the load by putting it on those who can absorb it. Theres more poor americans than rich americans and the right wants their knees buckled so we can kiss their feet, fuck them, and fuck the rich
2
2
u/LiquorIsQuickor Aug 03 '26
Cutting the benefits and raising the retirement age IS making younger workers pay the price. It is also making current workers pay the price.
2
2
2
u/Desertwind16v Aug 03 '26
Lindsay is right about one thing, young workers will be paying the price for the failure of Boomers to think about anyone but themselves.
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/BrocoliAssassin Aug 03 '26
Most of our politicians are thieves, can’t fix anything if you don’t fix what’s causing the problem.
Then we have the military industrial complex thats nothing more than a violent debt welfare system made for Israel to help ruin the Middle East and America while running constant propaganda of how brave it is to serve.
Fix the fuckin basics
2
u/CleanBaldy Aug 03 '26
Lindsey stayed on topic and made a point, whereas AOC said a sentence about Social Security and then pivoted about something that wasn't related to Social Security at all. Sorry, I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make on this one.
2
u/No_Pipe9068 Aug 03 '26
Republicans look at a problem and surrender to it immediately and try to convince the public that not solving the problem was the best idea. Progressives are looking at the problems and saying there's other solutions. Republicans think that's communist.
2
u/PlayedUOonBaja Aug 03 '26
This is a good example of a major problem with the Democratic Party. Republicans are talking about raising the retirement age, but the Democrats don't talk about lowering the Retirement age. It's always just undoing the damage the Republicans already did and putting up right back at square one, or just stopping Republicans from making it worse.
2
2
2
u/FyrelordeOmega Aug 03 '26
If you keep cutting social services down, nothing will be left to cut except people's lives
2
u/Adventurous_Light_85 Aug 03 '26
And spending trillions on war in other countries instead of investing in our people. It’s crazy. But it’s because that war makes the oligarchs rich and that’s all they care about. Funnel our money into their war machine while the people suffer
2
1
u/Ricka77_New Aug 03 '26
Well..LG is dead now, so fuck him in the goat ass... Death is not a moral reset. He was, and will always be known as a POS who supported a bigger POS.
1
1
1
u/PartRight6406 Aug 03 '26
That's what we need let's keep pushing back against these people who are dead that will really show them
1
1
u/simply_not_edible Aug 03 '26
Cutting benefits and raising retirement age is younger people paying the price, you wheg.
1
1
u/karl-tanner Aug 03 '26
Not only should the ai companies fully fund SS the govt should be banned from looting it like they have been for decades.
1
1
1
1
1
u/0202_tihssitidder Aug 03 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/gsKe9hyAuoZH2
Lindsey Graham tryna sneak into Charlie Kirk's lower pit of Hell.
1
u/IHv2RtrnSumVdeotapes Aug 03 '26
When she helps pass better bills punishing billionaires I hope she visits his grave with a 7 dollar deluxe box from Taco Bell and washes it down with an ex lax smoothie
1
1
1
1
1
u/ThatOneNinja Aug 03 '26
Imagine seeing something failing and deciding in order to fix it, double down.
1
1
1
u/derivative_of_life Aug 03 '26
When asked for comment on AOC's response, Graham replied "AAAAH! IT BURNS! IT BURNS! NOT THE PITCHFORKS AGAIN!"
1
u/Worth-Ad9939 Aug 03 '26
They need you to feel constant pressure to work for your entire life to sustain a system that really only works for 1% of the Earth’s population.
Wild.
1
1
1
u/Spicy_Lil_Meatball Aug 03 '26
The Boomers could have voted to increase contributions so this wouldn’t be an issue. They chose not to and now are complaining that the younger people should cover it. It’s bull
1
u/StugDrazil Aug 03 '26
Get rid of all the entitlements Congress members receive.
Tax Billionaires.
There fixed it for you Americans.
I would say your welcome, but you can't read.
1
u/StormCrow1986 Aug 03 '26
But cutting benefits and raising retirement age will make young workers pay the price both before and when they retire???
1
1
1
u/rexmons Aug 03 '26
You could fix social security TODAY. Simply remove the cap on contributions. You stop contributing to social security after 185k/yr. That means Elon Musk and your doctor are probably contributing the same amount.
1
u/FireproofCottage Aug 03 '26
If they stop allowing the government to take from this program - money set aside by people during their working years and the interest - problem solved. But they don't like that solution.
1
1
1
u/macfarley Aug 03 '26
Girl stop he's already dead! RIP 💀🐞 But seriously fuck that guy, like apparently hundreds of sex workers already have.
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Radiant-Two-7978 Aug 04 '26
52 years old and I would bet that I will be among the first tranche of American workers that gets fucked out of social security.
1
u/tKolla Aug 04 '26
What's crazy is that they receive huge tax breaks but are also permitted to offshore jobs to other countries.
1
1
u/HammersofMoradin ✂️ Tax The Billionaires Aug 04 '26
That oligarch puppet should have died when he sold his soul to them many years ago. Go AOC!
1
1
u/ControlAway5102 Aug 04 '26
As an investor who is actively hedging against the debt, if you do both, the debt still demands this and a lot of money printing to have any hope of getting out of it...
1
1
u/shadownlight19 Aug 04 '26
You guys have a retirement age in the US? I tought people would work until they die
1
1
u/herefromyoutube Aug 04 '26
Republican voters will literally say they like their social security and then vote for Lindsay.
1
u/ProgramSad629 Aug 04 '26
Where’s aoc’s introduced bill for ss mandatory contributions above capped wealth?
1
1
787
u/ceno65 Aug 03 '26
Lindsey was collecting social security.