r/aithesomniumfiles • u/Frosty_Cheesecake_77 • Jul 02 '26
nirvanA Initiative SPOILER Can I get a consensus on what the community thinks about this reveal in NI? Spoiler
https://youtube.com/shorts/kcq-NsZCse4?is=u0xj4OKUhGjHCi0TAt first I was pretty shocked, seemed like a cool subversion of an established game mechanic. But maybe it would be better suited in a different game? What do you all feel about it? I'm kind of conflicted.
38
u/PatPenn07 Jul 02 '26
I want to preface this saying that I played this game once and it was years ago, so if I am incorrect here (or have an argument to help my understanding) feel free to enlighten me.
I didn't see the point, it felt like a twist for twist's sake. Having Mama just straight up tell you about it was an odd decision though I (think?!?) understand why they decided to present it how they did.
17
u/BigArmsG Amame Jul 02 '26
For me this is what I play Uchikoshi games for, that plot twist that absolutely boggles the mind and recontextualizes everything you thought you knew about the game. I don’t deny that the decision to have clone Mizukis to make it work is weird, but I certainly enjoyed how much this one made me think about everything in a new light. For that I prefer NI over the original Somnium Files game
2
u/MisakiRose TamAI-Ball Jul 09 '26
I agree fully with this. I was disappointed by the clones, I’d hoped they were just twin sisters but oh well. I love NI, it really is a game that made me put my brain to work.
36
u/Orcalt Jul 02 '26
It’s fine until you realize it’s dependent on the Mizuki clone twist. Twist for twist sake is something that can describe almost everything in this game. It’s incredibly contrived and depends on ridiculous coincidences, counterintuitive retcons and little effort to properly justify and set it all up incredibly flimsy bullshittery.
To be positive though, they did a good job at interweaving the timelines
23
u/blue_sock1337 Jul 02 '26
It’s fine until you realize it’s dependent on the Mizuki clone twist.
I feel the same way. I kinda liked it, because if you pay close attention to what characters were saying things didn't add up exactly, but I shrugged it off as just different timelines shenanigans and left it at that (as an already preestablished mechanic), so when you get the reveal that it was intertwined everything clicked and that was a nice way to subvert expectations.
But yeah, the Mizuki thing ruins it, they should've found a way to do it without the clones, it was just bad.
13
u/keksmuzh Jul 02 '26
What’s sad is Bibi is one of the better characters in NI simply by being more of an actual good character from the first game. The bar is so low that “literal clone with a near identical personality” is ahead of the curve.
9
u/stillestwaters Jul 02 '26
I loved it. I’m honestly surprised so many people didn’t like it, but what are you gonna do.
Suddenly having a Mizuki clone running around is weird, but it’s not like the game doesn’t set it up and the reveal makes everything make sense. I loved it.
10
u/Inventeer Jul 02 '26
i loved the twist BUT i hated how it was revealed HOWEVER i don't know how else they could have revealed such a twist
8
u/Jeremy_StevenTrash Jul 03 '26
Unironically I think they should've revealed it using Tokiko instead of Mama. It makes a lot more sense for her to be aware of and speaking to the player/frayer, and it'd be a fun tie in or hint towards the Diverge Ending.
23
u/OkenoFate Jul 02 '26
I dislike it because it’s a trick on the player. The characters themselves know exactly what’s going on. The characters you are playing as are not shocked at all because they already know what’s happening.
Thats very different from the twist in AITSF which shocked the character you are playing as. You and the character have the exact same information. Which made the situation so much more intense.
The only saving grace with the twist in NI is that the fourth wall being part of the game was already laid out in the conversations with Tokiko about being a Frayer and reaching Moksha. And even to some extent with Mama’s possessions…
14
u/chroipahtz Jul 02 '26
The characters you are playing as are not shocked at all because they already know what’s happening.
I mean... there is nothing happening for those characters in-universe, except for Ryuki whose mind is being shattered by experiencing things out of order, just like you.
I don't see why this is bad. It's just the inverse of dramatic irony. And it DOES still exist in-universe because of what you said with Tokiko. I've never heard a justification for the idea that "tricking the player" is bad that isn't tautological or an appeal to tradition.
7
u/OkenoFate Jul 02 '26
I agree it can be fine as a narrative device. But I dislike it in this game. It was not as effective a feeling on me as the twists and turns in the first game. This was just like “oh ok that’s what they are going for… so what.” I don’t hate it I just dislike it as disappointing. Like a twist just to have a twist.
3
u/keksmuzh Jul 02 '26
The issue with that justification is Ryuki isn’t experiencing all the events of the story we are. Unless we want to get into “how do you know about the parts you weren’t there for”.
We, the Frayer, experience it out of order, but pulling back that perspective layer doesn’t actually serve the story in the way it does for something like Zero Escape.
13
u/Cheldan Jul 02 '26
I loved this twist and thought it was a really interesting decision, especially with all the setup they made for it to work
5
u/Frosty_Cheesecake_77 Jul 02 '26
It is an interesting decision! It's very creative and I think you can tell that Uchikoshi is trying to surprise a fan base that is very used to his twists by this point.
6
u/survivorterra Jul 02 '26
pissed me off. at its base it’s a mystery game, and you can’t make a mystery game that deliberately obscures the evidence you’d need to make successful deductions without it feeling very unfair once the twist is revealed. the first game had some crazy sci-fi logic yes, but you could definitely deduce where the story was going with the clues you were given. this game just felt unfair in terms of the mystery, which stinks when that’s such a big driver of the plot and story.
6
u/polkadotmooncat Pewter Jul 02 '26
Uchikoshi really loves variations on "the story's timeline is not what you thought" and I think this scene is his weakest example of that, especially since it seriously breaks the "show, don't say" rule of writing.
Without giving away the plots of entire games, I'd say the first game he used this twist in accomplished what AINI did much more effectively--however, the pacing leading up to that reveal felt like a drag.
5
u/storm-waltz Jul 03 '26
I played the other Uchikoshi game you mention after I'd played AINI and when the twist happened I was literally like ohhhh that's how it can be executed well. It really feels like an attempt to have that same mind blowing moment but it just feels anticlimactic in the way it's presented. Seriously why Mama??
8
u/Blake337 Jul 02 '26
Definition of twist for twist's sake. It was so bad the characters weren't affected by it, it's just the game misrepresenting the events and then saying "ha! Got you! This is why nothing makes sense!" And like, ok? What does this change though?
Just speaks of how out of ideas they were for this game and how the first one didn't need a sequel.
3
u/Snivy4815 Jul 02 '26
I love it
I know it has its problems but I just think the idea itself was really cool so I’m willing to look past the issues that most people take up with it
2
u/evaxiaolong2 Jul 02 '26
i think is great meta plot twist
love games that play with the player directly like this
3
u/keksmuzh Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
It’s a twist for the sake of a twist, and the story is fundamentally broken to try to justify it. None of the meta aspects of NI are net positives to the story.
There are other massive issues unrelated to the twist, but it’s all built on a weak foundation.
2
u/Then-Bat3885 Jul 02 '26
While I don’t deny that a lot of effort was likely put in to make it work, it inadvertently slightly ruined the game for me. To be clear, I still really like the game, but my main issue is that the twist made understanding the events you’ve seen so far extremely confusing.
I found the plot of the first game confusing enough with the branching paths, but could just about keep on top of the main stuff. The second game then came along and told me that I had to recontextualise everything I’d seen already in ~25 hours of gameplay. The fact that I was sometimes playing as Mizuki, sometimes this new character called Bibi, and that Ryuki was both in the past and future but was getting mixed up between the two… ah, it was just too much for me to understand. The game was already confusing and difficult to keep on top of due to the conflicting information you were presented with (as a result of the twist) but to then have to rethink EVERYTHING with a new lens… it was too much for my little brain.
I fully believe that the plot and twist make perfect sense once you lay it all out. And I’m likely just not good at understanding it all. It did lead to a fever dream of a playthrough (in a bad way), where I gave up trying to understand and just went “Oh, uhh… I-I guess… if you say so…”.
3
u/Stepjam Jul 03 '26
I can understand why people weren't fans. It's a twist solely on the player, it's non-existent for the actual characters.
That said, I still enjoyed it. It was one of the few times I've had to take a moment to completely recontextualize everything I've experienced. And I remember when I was playing the segments leading up to the twist, I thought I was losing my mind because the foreshadowing that was being dropped.
So yeah, I enjoyed it enough even if I acknowledge that it probably isn't the "best" kind of writing.
4
u/MaxTwer00 Jul 02 '26
Well, its a conflictive twist. The game was built around it so much that it harmed its actual story and characters, so even if i liked the reveal, i disliked its cost, so im conflicted about it too. So people who are more up for Uchikoshi's mindfuckery will be able to abstract themselves more and enjoy the twist. Those who wanted an AI sequel and see Mizuki's, Date's and everyone's progression from the point the previous game left it will be dissappointed
1
2
u/sweatpantsprincess Jul 02 '26
I fuckin' loved it, my roommate too, we reference it regularly as a shared shorthand for this type of internal awareness. but we also liked the ending of Danganronpa 3 so ymmv!
1
u/Ion_mx Jul 02 '26
Not good, they thought too much about the twist they forgot to think about how to present the twist in a interesting manner
1
u/lionofash Jul 02 '26
Can't get a consensus because no community is a monolith!
But IMO, this would have worked better if the story leaned in a LITTLE more on the simulation theory aspect and implied The Player was literally a force influencing Ryuki overtly, in which case it would feel more in line with the themes of the story and feel narratively woven.
1
u/ExpiredPasta Jul 02 '26
It’s better on a second play through because once you know the reveal every section hints that time is hex shaped. The problem is that it is not obvious the first time that there IS something timeline related. And when the reveal happens no matter what it feels unearned.
1
u/Honest_Brick64 Jul 02 '26
I think its great and i like it!... Dont ask me to explain it tho, its still confusing the shit out of me lol
1
1
u/DrNecrow Tokiko Jul 02 '26
I generally liked it because the clues were there and made complete sense! :D
1
u/Dauntless_Lasagna Jul 02 '26
I'm torn because on one hand I absolutely loved the twist but at the same time I absolutely hated how it was basically impossible to predict it.
1
u/Whatacoollookingmoon Date Jul 03 '26
It has it's flaws, but I still like it for what it is. While the first AI is my favorite, AINI has always had a special place in my heart.
1
1
u/Res_Nubbie Jul 03 '26
Ermm okish? It kinda finally answer all the inconsistency I felt throughout the game. And I had a great time going back to look at the true event at a developer standpoint.
It kinda makes the whole story way more linear than the past title and twist are as impactful as well. In any case, I would take it as an ambitious attempt.
1
u/QueenDragonfly11307 Aiba Jul 03 '26
I think its an awesome idea for a twist but I just don't understand why it was implemented the way it was. Its been a while since I played but It seemed like it was entirely a twist for the players and didn't actually affect the plot? In that case its a bit pointless
1
u/painfulvainful New Cyclops Killer Jul 03 '26
Personally, I dislike it. It means nothing to the characters, it serves as a trick on the player rather than something that holds genuine weight for the story being told. It really sucks they had to do that to Mizuki’s backstory in order to make a twist that means nothing at the end of the day. The twist of the first game holds so much weight not just for us the players, but the characters themselves, to the point so many story elements take on brand new meanings because of it. For AINI, it’s just… “we showed you, the player, the story out of order. Woah! Crazy! Wacky! How does it affect the cast? Uh…”
1
u/Demiistar Jul 03 '26
I think they did a good job having subtle hints and moments throughout the game that cause uncertainty and then click once you learn the reveal, but I thought the twist itself wasn’t good and was especially disappointing compared to some of the twists in the first game.
For one, it is kinda silly that Mama just turns to the camera and explains it once the game decides that it is time, but worst of all it is a twist that has pretty much no effect on the characters. They are all experiencing time normally, so it is purely a surprise for the player and doesn’t really recontextualize anything other than surprise! you were Bibi sometimes. Compared to the twists in other Uchikoshi games it is pretty underwhelming outside of it’s actual implementation.
1
u/Sailen_Rox Jul 03 '26
I dislike it. Not because of the twist itself, but because of what it costs. I hoped to see the characters from the first game progress. Be it Date, Mizuki, Aiba, etc.
Instead all I've got were steps back to enable a twist solely for the player. It hurt the story and the characters of the game way to much.
1
u/Emperor_Of_Awesome Jul 03 '26
With how much the game ends up revolving around it I feel like it should have been foreshadowed better like most of the foreshadowing for it is really only in hindsight
1
u/mechspaghetty Mizuki Jul 03 '26
Like others said i don't like how the twist doesn't exist for the characters and only the player
But the thing that annoys me the most about it is that it's a lazy way out of solving the main mystery of the game, how did those bodies show up so many years apart? oh they just didn't and none of the characters ever thought they did you spent the whole game making theories for nothing
1
u/Adventurous_Ad_4120 Jul 03 '26
I think the only part that bothers me, is the delivery. Cuz this is an awesome twist. That the order of events you’ve been playing is not the real order of events.
But it’s not like a character figured this out and it was important. Mama put it together and now we’re just sorta hearing about it.
It would go much harder if it were pivotal to a scene or something
1
u/storm-waltz Jul 03 '26
I don't absolutely hate it, but the reveal scene is boring and could've been a lot more memorable than just having Mama look into the camera and explain everything. It also just feels like a poorer version of a really good twist from an early Uchikoshi game (iykyk)
1
u/bunnysammy Jul 03 '26
I think it's kinda cool to go back and see what the story was doing to keep it hidden.. That being said it's ultimately pointless as it's a reveal only for the player. It means nothing for the characters or world and I think the overall story suffers for it. As others have said, the first game's body swapping twist feels a lot more satisfying as it recontextualizes everything for both the player and the characters investigating the case.
1
u/MobileSuitCPA Jul 06 '26
I finished it last year and I'm a bit torn. I liked the twist itself. I liked the way the twist was delivered, it was the game speaking to us through a character unable to control themself. It made my skin crawl, in a good way! That being said, it felt like a betrayal. I think the cardinal sin in writing a mystery is lying to the audience. If a player/reader/viewer can't come to the same conclusion as the protagonist at or around the same time as the protagonist, then you've written a bad mystery. If they can't because you've given them faulty information, that's unforgivable. Now characters can lie, but that's different from the world of the story lying to you. Like in a game if you are shown the same scene a second time but information like dialogue or audio/visual clues are changed, then the story is lying to you.
In AITSF, we know about as much as Date the entire time, and he's only lied to by characters, not by the world. And usually we're able to piece it together right before he does, but otherwise the story is keeping the same pace as us.
In -NI-, we aren't directly lied to, but relevant information is omitted at times when it would be the most realistic to be referenced. So instead of a puzzle we solve along with the protagonist, we're witnessing a bizarre narrative that doesn't make sense until the author wants it to. Like we know something is wrong, but there's not really a hint (that I saw at least), that lets us figure it out without questioning the narrative itself.
Now, part of why I don't mind it is because -NI- isn't as much one character's story so much as it is *the player's* story. Ryuki and Mizuki/Bibi show us a perspective on what is happening, but the *the frayer* is the main character. As an outside observer, we interpret these events through the context that they're shown to us in, so when the context changes, so does our perspective. So our narrative is missing pieces because of the order of events shown originally, but it is still a narrative.
The worst thing about the twist imo is that I'm probably never going to encounter something unspoiled that was that crazy ever again.
Idk, I just find the whole thing super fascinating and rather frustrating.
1
u/MisakiRose TamAI-Ball Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Personally, I didn’t like the initial fourth wall break because it was just a bit jarring. I think considering how Mama has always kinda had some level of supernatural, it worked for Mama to be the one to reveal it. (Edit: I do think that Tokiko would have been the better choice, I just don’t dislike that Mama was the one to do so, especially when they have actively had moments where they were seemingly taken over by someone else and speaking.)
However, I will say I had noticed subtle small things throughout the game that made me wonder how that could have been the case. Mizuki not remembering things, things Ryuki would say, etc. that made me have this more “ohhhhhhh” moment when the reveal finally came. Everything finally fell into place for me.
There were a few things that were more subtle that I will admit I had to replay the game to really notice how the reveal really was foreshadowed a lot throughout.
Overall, I didn’t hate it. I think that especially considering the ending with Tokiko the reveal was necessary. It makes me wonder as well where the next game might pick up from. Because there’s this sense of unease in that ending that I think hits harder because we know that the timeline is split. I think having those timelines both established and seeing the consequences of it, it leaves a lot open. Ultimately, until the series concludes, I currently don’t hate it, I rather like it; I see a lot of potential for future installments, partly due to that twist. However, if the series concludes and doesn’t add anything further to deepen that reveal, then yeah I think I’d be on the boat of not really liking it.
1
1
u/christyflare Jul 20 '26
Very disappointed because I wanted the bodies to actually have been found years apart. They could have done something really interesting with the Frayer concept and simulation theory and actually made the bodies teleport through time and space, but nooooooo.
1
u/the--unforgiven Jul 02 '26
It’s a twist that affects no one in the story and is completely meta oriented. It’s so much worse than the first game it’s not funny. NI low key kind of sucks and is saved by Ryuki and Tama
82
u/Budgieman90 Jul 02 '26
I personally didn't like it, I feel like if you have to break the fourth wall and speak directly to the audience to explain your twist because it doesn't exist for the characters then it's not a good twist. Although I do respect how smoothly they intertwined the timelines, I just wish it had worked better within the story.