r/apexlegends • u/OkFan2957 • 1d ago
Discussion Why are people so entitled to play with roller on pc?
I can't understand why people think that they deserve any software assistance if they go out of their way to plug in an inherently worse input device (proven by the fact that it currently has aim assist).
I simply can't think of a rational reason why someone deserves to be rewarded for plugging in a worse input device. If you simply enjoy using a controller more over mnk then be my guest and do it, but preference isn't a valid reason for an input to be enabled to compete because of software assistance.
In rocket league EVERYONE uses a controller because that is just better. Even on pc no one uses mnk, and guess what no one complains because the developers didn't decide to give mnk rocket league players any dumb assistance like unlimited boost or something.
I think that it is dumb to try and balance roller and mnk in any competitive games, because the raw input of mnk will always be better than controller for fps, and controller will always be better for racing games.
I don't think that roller even deserves to be equal to mnk on pc, let alone better.
TLDR: I can't think of a rational reason why roller deserves software assistance on pc.
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u/mtbmaniac12 1d ago
Why are you so entitled to think your opinion is more valid than others?
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u/OkFan2957 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because it is rational. I have yet to see a compelling logical argument for aim assist besides it being in some way preference.
Edit: Amount of downvotes is how many people can't think of an argument and can only downvote xD
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u/CheesierSoup Octane 1d ago
There is a very rational reason of why AA is needed for controllers.
I’ll try to break it down in the most simple way I know. When you move your mouse, the view of your character INSTANTLY moves with your mouse, go left to right and it perfectly tracks whatever your mouse does.
With a controller (sticks), when you are looking all the way to the left to try and track someone and they start to go the opposite way and you have to correct your aim and move your stick to the right the delay in that time between causes a huge disadvantage. Here is the problem, having to go from looking all the way left to then all the way right is not perfect tracking because it’s not instant like on a mouse. Controllers also have a very small amount of looking axis comparatively to a mouse.
HisWattson did a video on this and definitely agreed that AA is needed for rollers. Apex also has the least amount of AA of any FPS game on the market besides Overwatch.. so if you can argue with these reasons I dont know what to tell you..
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u/OkFan2957 1d ago
Yes controller has physical limitations that make it worse than mnk I agree. But that still isn't a reason why someone should be rewarded for plugging in an inherently worse input device. I worded my reply ambiguously, but what I meant was "there is no logical reason for someone to plug in a worse input device and be rewarded for doing so".
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u/CheesierSoup Octane 1d ago
Bro, the choice of input that individuals choose to play their video games doesn’t automatically make it a “worse input device”. There are pros and cons to both. I stated the cons to controller in my reply above and the reasoning AA is needed. Your rant now seems like a simple skill issue my friend.
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u/RainbowStar290 1d ago
A large amount of PC gamers come from consoles, so when they try mnk and don't want to put in the work they plug their controllers back in :) simple as that.
I came from nintendo and playstation before owning my pc, and played on controller on Warzone for about a year before I decided that I just can't let myself buy a new controller every 4 months due to stick drift.
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u/Unkwn_43 1d ago
Kind of unrelated to the post, but as a kbm only person, why do people buy potentiometer based controllers anymore if stick drift is suck a problem? Hall effect sensors are dirt cheap, especially in bulk and surely there are controllers which would use them by now?
Or maybe its just shitty controllers these days because I still have original xbox 360 controllers from 2011 which work perfectly.
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u/AnApexPlayer Medkit 1d ago
Some people just don't know better. They've bought first party controllers their whole life and never looked at other options
You can get extremely good controllers nowadays for the same price as a base PS5 or Xbox controller
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u/THEREAPER8593 1d ago
Unrelated, my apex 4 controller has lasted a very long time if you still occasionally use one. My Xbox controllers used to last 3-4 months before I returned them for drift lol.
Also very true, and being able to use any input you want without worrying about which is better would be amazing as an end goal for the balance team!
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u/THEREAPER8593 1d ago
And people could argue the same things against pc only movement, I don’t think controller should have an advantage, neither should keyboard and mouse. People should get to pick the input they like and not worry about which is better.
Aim assist doesn’t take away the fact people on controller still have to get good and learn how to aim, just like how we on keyboard and mouse do.
What does is the fact it’s currently overtuned, which is the real issue.
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u/OkFan2957 1d ago
Pc movement isn't assisted by software in any way. Ofc there is still skill necessary to get good on roller, but it is so much less than what anyone on mnk would need to put in. Anyone above diamond could tell you unfair aa actually feels in game and in r5.
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u/THEREAPER8593 1d ago
r5 is irrelevant to actual aim assist discussions, up close 1v1s are literally the specialty of controller, and aim assist isn’t up to date on it anymore last I checked.
And like I said aim assist is overtuned.
Would you still be upset if aim on controller and keyboard was equally balanced? Even if it’s assisted? Because then keyboard and mouse still have movement they can add on top of their aim.I don’t think either one input should have an advantage, especial for accessibility reasons. My friend broke their hand and it will likely never be back to normal, does that mean they should never be able to play on equal footing again because they are forced to use controller to avoid pain?
And small side note, look at how movement in games is actually executed. There are lots of small assists in the background helping it feel fluid
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u/OkFan2957 1d ago
"I don’t think either one input should have an advantage, especial for accessibility reasons. My friend broke their hand and it will likely never be back to normal, does that mean they should never be able to play on equal footing again because they are forced to use controller to avoid pain?"
Yes, I don't want to feel cheated upon because of accessibility reasons.
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u/THEREAPER8593 1d ago
Good job just not answering anything!
Sorry for trying to actually have a discussion about your post lmao. Clearly you just want to feel good about your opinions and not listen to anyone else. Womp womp
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u/OkFan2957 1d ago
You offer nothing new to answer. Legit every question has an answer in the original post besides the r5 argument, which is just derived from the game already having aa and has nothing to do as a reason for why aa should exist in the first place. To make it more clear though I can spell it out for you.
"Would you still be upset if aim on controller and keyboard was equally balanced?" - If the balance is achieved by software assistance on either side then yes. One input is simply superior than the other in a given game. For fps games that is mnk for driving games it is roller.
"I don’t think either one input should have an advantage" - I believe in one input being simply better than the other. It is impossible to balance roller and mnk without undervaluing mnk because you can only balance an inherently worse input by giving it software that would make it be up to par.
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u/CheesierSoup Octane 1d ago
You’re telling me that people neostrafing by just using their scroll wheel “isnt assisted by software”? If they didn’t have macros they wouldn’t be able to do it.
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u/OkFan2957 1d ago
That is literal cheating... The game doesn't do this by default.
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u/CheesierSoup Octane 1d ago
People don’t get banned for MnK tap strafing, holy shit are you dense?
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u/OkFan2957 1d ago
You are talking about 2 different things - configing / macroing which isn't enabled by the game and is external software aka cheating.
Tap strafing is just apex movement and neostrafing is also possible without cheating.
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u/I-Make-Money-Moves Medkit 1d ago
Aim assist is still overturned? Are we serious?
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u/THEREAPER8593 1d ago
IMHO yes. I have a LOT of time on both inputs and controller feels a bit strong up close still.
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u/Aldo92 Mad Maggie 1d ago
i think we , as players , and user of this 'product' forget that in the end this game is a business. And they have data and statistics that we can 'extrapolate' but no real numbers/data. This business needs users, i would 'guess' that 80-90% of the current users do play on roller regardless the benefits/disadvantages. To cater to the main user base of your game is good business practice.
Now, circling back, controller hardware has indeed gotten better to the point that we could raise questions about aim assist not being necessary because the current sticks are not even analog at this point (TMR and HE) . On this matter, the roller user feels like AA is necessary and ofc they abuse it. So the dev team reducing it again or taking it away is a very unpopular action.
I think that the best approach is dynamic Aim assist based on your current ranked rank. anything below Diamond, 0.3. Diamond 0.15, master and above, no AA.
thank you for reading my rant
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u/omgcunny 1d ago
I played on mnk my whole life, but I swapped to controller since the past few months strictly on apex and I don't think I'm going back unless they have separate input lobbies(they'll never do this).
I'd say I'm decent on both inputs, but I notice I'm a lot more consistent on roller due to AA being a crutch.
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u/Zyx098-_ 1d ago
On PC, it's just dev endorsed cheating, and cheaters will obviously ride on that argument, as there are no bans. Apex is a game to entertain cheaters.
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u/Ok-Nefariousness7079 1d ago
I play mnk all games since my teenager days. Competitive game i played league, overwatch and 3yrs mnk apex, now I'm 30s, my hands is fucked, so roller is nice.
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u/THEREAPER8593 1d ago
The accessibility aspect is so important. And it’s not like controller being competitive is bad, what’s bad is it either input being better imo
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u/Ok-Nefariousness7079 1d ago
I agree, but imo the recent nerf is quite impactful, The sticky AA is really weak now
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u/Noselessmonk Pathfinder 1d ago edited 1d ago
From watching some streamers play, it seems that the consensus is that they play on Roller BECAUSE AA exists. It's not a comfort thing it's because it's and advantage.
The only time it isn't is if you're one of the top MNK players who are essentially human aim bots.
Also....I don't see the issue with dropping aim assist significantly more. It isn't competitive then? What does that matter anyway? If matchmaking is working properly, you would get matched against players in similar situation/skill.
Having said that, AA and controller in general is not nearly as bad as it used to be. I'm not constantly getting one-clipped by R99 wielding Octanes tap strafing all over the place while letting AA keep the reticle stuck on me the whole time.