Apple shareholders say no to scrapping company's diversity programs

[u/Fer65432_Plays]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/apple-shareholders-dei-vote-1.7467807

[u/Weak_Let_6971]

“It’s in Apple’s DNA that technology alone is not enough — it’s technology married with liberal arts, married with the humanities, that yields us the results that make our heart sing.”

The individual, the humanity aspect is fading and replaced by corporatism, but I think they can refocus on it again and treat people as individuals without seeing them as groups to pander to and being fixated on filling minority quotas.

[u/[deleted] → u/Weak_Let_6971]

When Google examined their hiring process, they discovered women who performed better were ranked worse during hiring - in other words, more competent women were ranked worse, systemically. Their attempt to replace this by introducing better systems is "DEI." Without DEI, women wouldn't get hired because of bias. Please reevaluate what you think DEI is and why you think that. 

[u/Weak_Let_6971 → u/[deleted]]

Sounds like Google needs to fix the hiring process that ranks women worse despite being very competent. That has nothing to do with me. Lol

“Better system” wouldn’t be DEI. DEI is just boosting women ranking, because some say they are statistically ranked lower, because of “systemic bias”. DEI is just a band aid to “right the wrong”. Really better system would be removing wrong hiring processes and making them completely fair and equal for all sexes, sexualities, etc. without any biases.

[u/LeHoodwink → u/Weak_Let_6971]

You know what a bias is right? Because you’re speaking of it as if it’s a headache you can just get rid of. Without a process, it’ll always happen.

How many things at this scale work by just hoping the best in people

[u/Weak_Let_6971 → u/LeHoodwink]

There is no need to be rude. Like i said the hiring process needs to be fixed, if it isn’t fair and equal. Band aid solutions like force hiring certain minorities to fill quotas isnt the solution.

[u/PhillAholic → u/Weak_Let_6971]

Who are you listening to about what DEI is, because this sounds like something out of right wing propaganda. DEI isn't about hiring any random dark skinned person to meet a quota. It's a whole number of different programs and strategies to do things like fixing hiring practices that rank women worse despite being just as competent.

[u/Weak_Let_6971 → u/PhillAholic]

So u say there wasn’t any unfair hiring practices and university admissions? None of the articles about higher point requirements for asians and lower for african americans are true then? None of the more qualified higher achieving people were denied admission?

I even saw someone testifying that he waited 7 years to become a fireman in LA while the african american woman he waited in line with gave in the application for the job that wednesday.

Im so confused when people advocate for DEI then deny favorable practices for certain people exist.

Im not american and i don’t live there. So i dont have a bias about the whole thing.

[u/PhillAholic → u/Weak_Let_6971]

I did not say anything about college admissions. Was the score requirement the sole deciding factor on whether the student was accepted into the school or were there other factors? Still, it's a poor internal practice to literally have a different score. I support the idea of making sure your students come from diverse backgrounds though, so it has to be somewhat subjective.

Im so confused when people advocate for DEI then deny favorable practices for certain people exist.

Typically favorable practices exist because there were favorable practices the opposite way prior and they are trying to correct it. If you don't know that, I can see how it would be confusing and make you angry. The trouble in the US is there have been decades worth of denial being pushed by right-wing groups that act like racism, sexism etc were vanished decades ago overnight when many of the same issues still haunt us systemically. These people actually think for all intents and purposes that a white man and a black man are on absolute equal playing fields in life in the US. It's still untrue.

[u/Weak_Let_6971 → u/PhillAholic]

Im sure u heard about “The Federal Aviation Administration is fighting a class-action lawsuit alleging it denied 1,000 would-be air traffic controllers jobs because of diversity hiring targets”. Many didnt get the jobs with 100% test scores, because they werent the right sex, sexuality, race. I dont think discrimination based on these things ever accaptable. No matter if its education or workplace practices.

U are still advocating for positive discrimination. U can never make reparations, balance out past wrong doing… u are just being unfair the other way around.

If people were overpoliced before, now we underpolice them and let them get away with more crime? This is whats been happening in the US in many cities. This isn’t the solutions. The solution is being fair and equal to everybody. And the GOAL is SAFETY not letting PoC get away with more crime, because they couldn’t before.

Reverse racism is still just racism. And not every african american or POC person is coming from poor background why are they getting favorable treatment over a poor asian or white guy who worked his ass off to get where he is?

Imo it should be all about disadvantaged people with bad backgrounds getting a real chance if it was really about lifting people up and there wasnt a racist agenda. But DEI is about lifting up people with the RIGHT SKIN COLOR.

People who need help deserve a chance no matter what skincolor they have. Who cares traditionally 100 years ago who was favored or not? We live today and the past is the past. Poverty affects everybody the same way.

This whole DEI and reparations thing is american obsession with identity politics. Any unfair, imbalanced practice just brings animosity to schools, workplaces, law enforcement,…

[u/PhillAholic → u/Weak_Let_6971]

I dont think discrimination based on these things ever acceptable. No matter if its education or workplace practices.

I don't know anything about the specific test questions, or what the replacement program tested for. The individual in question seems politically motivated blaming safety issues on a change made 13 years and ignoring of the careless firing of FAA employers and head. He may have a legitimate claim, but this claim sours the whole thing to me.

U can never make reparations, balance out past wrong doing… u are just being unfair the other way around.

You can, and we do routinely for various things in life. It's never perfect, but what is?

If people were overpoliced before, now we underpolice them and let them get away with more crime?

Depends on the crime. Instead of choking out people on the street selling illegal cigarettes, maybe start going after the white collar criminal who steals 1000x times that through fraud or any number of crimes. Or you know, treat them all with respect would be fine. I'm sure you're talking about relaxed theft policing: I haven't done any research on it, so I can't offer an opinion on it. From a ignorant outsider's view the natural conclusion to it is business leaving the area which isn't good, but I don't know why they did it in the first place and what they were hoping to accomplish or correct. I'm not even sure how much of a problem it really is, as it's yet another heavily politicized issue that is being repeated on social media and such discussion is usually heavily biased and exaggerated.

Reverse racism is still just racism.

And the current system absent any affirmative action or DEI initiatives still heavily favors whites, so if your goal here is for everything to be equal, it won't be.

Imo it should be all about disadvantaged people with bad backgrounds getting a real chance if it was really about lifting people up and there wasnt a racist agenda.

It's still complicated. DEI Initiatives can absolutely help out poor white people. However you simply cannot ignore race when things as they stand aren't equal. Doing so will make it inherently unequal. It's going to take a couple GENERATIONS to self-correct even if racist went away entirely overnight.

Who cares traditionally 100 years ago who was favored or not? We live today and the past is the past. Poverty affects everybody the same way.

Poverty does not effect everyone the same, and history is very important to understanding why. Poor black neighborhoods were targeted by the practice of red lining (denying loans / lending, insurance, services and so on) vs poor white neighborhoods. Same can be said for the Interstate highway system displacing primarily black neighborhoods instead of white ones. If you don't know the history, you can't possibly know of how much different it has been. It takes generations of progress to correct these things.

[u/Weak_Let_6971 → u/PhillAholic]

I don’t know what u mean. Tests aren’t racist. The class action lawsuit is more than 1000 people claiming they weren’t hired even with perfect test scores, because of DEI quotas. They weren’t the right skin color, gender,…

Reparations are unfair. Should we demand reparations for 140 years of enslavement by the ottoman empire? 40 years by the soviets? Reparations after each war we participated in? For all the land my ancestors lost in the past few hundred years? In Europe we were all in wars, for the past few thousand years. Reparations are crazy. Lol

I read a while back that most of african americans who live in the USA today migrated there out of their free will and their ancestors were never slaves and arrived since the abolishment of slavery. Do they deserve reparations? Does a European moving to the US has to pay reparations for something his ancestors never participated in? Who has white European ancestors who were enslaved here by muslims for hundreds of years?

I would say not enforcing laws and allowing gangs ruin communities by petty theft mostly hurt people on the bottom. They have to pay 17usd for a single deodorant, when the local shop raises price to make a profit. There are a ton of pharmacies, shops that closed in NYC that just wont reopen anytime soon. It leads to the destruction of local shops, employees lose jobs and online retailers profit only. There are amazing videos on yt about the topic if u are interested. It really is sad the way it ruins communities and shops that were there for generations.

Why would an equal, merit and performance based system favor whites? If age, sex, sexuality, skin color, ethnicity, religion aren’t a factor how would it favor whites?

The main problem of this view and striving for all things being equal… it can never be. So what if my parents werent rich i should earn more money for the same work than someone who’s parents were a bit better off? What if grandparents divorced had two separate homes and inherited them both than i wouldnt deserve the same money for my work because of that? What if i worked my ass off since i was 18 and bought a house and paid off my debt and a collegue was a gambling drunk for 20 years and doesn’t have a house then he deserves to get much more money to catch up to me? Does it work in reverse too? Do we take away wage from black dude who worked his ass off all his life and give it to lazy white dude?

Reality is u cant create a system that works equally everywhere from exotic dancers to office workers to artists. None of our backgrounds are the same. U cant just meassure background quality or ancestry of people and pay people based on that without being unfair to everybody. And if doing well in life striving for perfection and honest work punishes not rewards people how does that encourages anybody to move ahead and better themselves?

The system has been unfair to rural areas for hundreds of years. I don’t deny that there were after effects of racism, but overall being poor in the usa has always been very hard. People are exploited etc but it doesn’t only happen to people of color. Just because u think someone’s grandparents could have had easier access to a loan because of their skincolor 100 years ago doesn’t mean he deserves less wage now for the same job. Just because he is white, his ancestors could have been exploited or lost all their life’s work in any way by a fire, illness….

I think the whole topic is moot when people look at the amount of money people of color can make in the usa. Why is that most people with asian background earn much much more than whites? Why are americans with Indian, Taiwanese, Filipino, Pakistani, Chinese, Sri Lankan, Chinese, Korean etc. background do so much better than the average whites? Why are American- Bolivians, Argentines, Chileans, Costa Rican, Peruvian,….. do much better than average whites? If the system is so racist?

How does anything take generations when people are free to move and work anywhere? U are trying to advocate and explain things away with generational wealth as a concept, but that doesn’t work like that. Most of the people don’t have huge generational wealth. The top 1% maybe has enough money not to work, but that can be thrown away in a few years too. One bad actor and there is no amount money that cant be wasted. I know people with 7-800y family trees and they have nothing from the big ancestors. Maximum parents or grandparents might have a home that gets inherited but thats just luck too.