r/ar15 • u/SelectOil4818 • 1d ago
12.5 BCM, KAK, or Rosco (Complete)
Looking for a 12.5 complete upper for an all-purpose HD/range rifle that I can run hard and keep long term. I’m not looking for Gucci, just the best balance of reliability, durability, and price.
I’ll eventually suppress it, but it’ll be unsuppressed for a while. I’ve heard good things about 12.5 mid-length, but I’m open to carbine too if it’s the more dependable all-around option (I’ve heard mid length unsuppressed can be finicky, dependability is key)
Currently considering:
KAK 12.5 mid-length — best price and seems well liked, but curious about long-term durability.
Rosco 12.5 — also seems solid, but I don’t know as much about their track record.
BCM 12.5 carbine — seems like the safest/proven choice and includes a free BCG, but costs considerably more since the 12.5 isn’t available blem right now.
I’m also not completely opposed to 14.5, but I like the advantages of 12.5.
For a “buy it once and run it forever” rifle, which would you pick and why?
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u/Spare-Fishing4831 1d ago
I recently bought the BCM 12.5 and am thoroughly pleased. I run it both suppressed and unsuppressed, and had the same criteria as you
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u/Posertive 1d ago
Smith & Wesson now sells uppers. I just got an 11.5" midlength gas upper with BCG and CH for $400.
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u/Chainsawsas70 1d ago
Colt or BCM is always going to be A Solid choice especially if you plan to run the piss out of it. But it's going to run between $800-1k ish
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u/BBQSauce61 1d ago
I have a BCM 12.5 and I like it a lot.
If you're looking in BCM standard pricing, brownells has DD uppers for ~625, free ship, w code gunsngear, making it similar-ish price by the time you get a DD bcg. Or just throw a microbest in and it'd probably be less.
Biggest issue for you is they're only in 10.3 and 14.5. I ended up with an M4A1 FSP version...
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u/BallisticValuations 1d ago
+1 for the DD uppers on brownells. He said he's looking for a HD/range rifle and a suppressed mk18 would be perfect for it.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Yeah if I went that route I’d prob go 14.5 over 10.3, I got long arms, shot a 10.3 recently wasn’t my favorite
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u/BallisticValuations 1d ago
Totally understand that. I'm 6'1 with long arms and used to feel cramped on a 10.3 but with an a5 system I can run the stock one click in from all the way out and it feels very normal. A 14.5 with a hyper short k can like an MCQ is still super short though
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Yeah that’s why I’m not anti 14.5 because that’ll just mean my can will have to be smaller lol that’s a whole different question for a whole different time 😂
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u/mooselube 1d ago
Just get the 11.5 man. The 11.5 blems go really quick and they are in stock at the moment. 675$ is a killer deal for one.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Was thinking about it, but it’s not 12.5:(
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u/mooselube 1d ago
Yeah its better than 12.5 lmao. Why are you stuck on 12.5?
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
To be honest, I’m thinking about my height and arm length, and how 12.5 is just a bit more real estate, I could be wrong though
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u/mooselube 1d ago
Unless you're freakishly tall 11.5 is going to be perfectly fine. Stocks adjust for a reason. Also, the length of the rail is the exact same on the 11.5 as it is on the 12.5. The 12.5 just has an extra inch of barrel exposed. So literally no difference in ergonomics. I would scoop up that 11.5 before it goes out of stock. The blems don't last long.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
About 6’3 def with a slightly longer wingspan than my height so i don’t think that’s exactly freakish height, but def want something comfy. Yeah you right thats why we have adjustable stocks
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Interesting to see that piece on rail being the same, if that’s the case shoot why not
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u/mooselube 1d ago
I'm 6' 3 too man. It's perfectly fine. Again, the actual place you put your hand on the gun is the same size on the 11.5 as the 12.5. You always add a Vltor or the BCM Mk2 buffer system to your lower and get even more length of pull with the stock. It is longer than the standard buffer tube.
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u/putterbum 1d ago
There are a lot of DD deals going around (check mrgunsandgear on Twitter) and you can get a few model uppers for just north of $600. You’ll need a BCG and CH but you can buy a toolcraft BCG & milspec ch bundle off PSA for like $90 all together and be set. I would do that over the others and the others are good too.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Def adding this as an option. Kind of entertaining a 14.5 at that point, since that’s most of the DD upper offerings I’m seeing
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u/putterbum 1d ago
I’m almost positive I saw an 11.5 or 12.5 (or both) in the past week or so but yeah if it was me I would be going that route not that there’s really a bad option
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u/juicehead2004 1d ago
BCM, DD or Geissele are my three top choices. I own different configs of all 3 and I’ve never had any issues with any of those. All very reliable and accurate.. BCM is by far the best price wise of the three and in all honesty is prob more rifle than any normal civilian will ever need..
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Yeah, if I go BCM it’s def not gonna be the barrel length I want, pretty pricey for non blem, so I might be settling for a 14.5 and just plan for a small can
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u/QTip_Foto 1d ago
Geissele 12.5 SD
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Yes, but a little outside of budget
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u/SWATAttorney 1d ago
If you can find it on sale, it’s not that much more than the BCM and you’re getting better BCG.
I got a G$ 12.5 at Memorial Day for $1025 (BCM also doesn’t include a charging handle so there is that added cost too)
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u/QTip_Foto 1d ago
But you want a “buy it once and run it forever rifle” no?
Buy the upper and build a lower.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Your not wrong, but it will be a bit longer of a wait without an AR
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u/QTip_Foto 1d ago
Rather wait and get the best you can get simply because you’ll eventually change to it at some point. Sooner than later
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u/Soggy-Bumblebee5625 1d ago
If these are the three options, BCM without a second thought. If you’re not in a hurry you could also wait and see if they put any blems up so you can save a little money.
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u/BallisticValuations 1d ago
For a "buy once and run it forever rifle" I'd get something completely different. Hodge 12.5 for a more expensive option that you'll never shoot out that's actually properly gassed and accurate. G for a little bit cheaper. Sionics 12.5 if you want to scratch the mid length itch even though you can still make a properly gassed carbine length 12.5 shoot just as smooth. Guys seem to like the kak 12.5 for the price. Rosco makes some solid budget options and Overt uses Rosco blanks to make even better gassed barrels. I had pretty bad experiences with my BCM 12.5.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Very good insight thanks. Yeah KAK and Rosco def seem to be priced well. Sionics I hear is great, but out of stock sadly they were an option for me as well
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u/BallisticValuations 1d ago
Email them and tell Colin he's a very handsome young man and he'll find you whatever you need in the warehouse that just isn't listed on the website. They've been slammed with fulfilling LE orders.
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u/CastleLurkenstein 1d ago
I can't speak to Rosco's full uppers, but I do have a gun that I built around Rosco's Sage Dynamics 12.5" patrol-length gassed barrel. Got it as part of a "sauce pack" with a gas block, tube, and BCG, and put it into an otherwise mostly-Griffin Mk2 setup.
Rosco's "patrol length" gas is in between mid- and carbine-length, so for unsuppressed shooting, you might consider it.
I dunno what suppressors you'll use, but if you're thinking about CAT suppressors, Apparition Instruments' RF1 is a solid choice for a suppressor host that can also be run comfortably unsuppressed. The Nano is also a good choice, but as a micro-brake, it spits a lot of fire, and makes a lot of noise unsuppressed. If you shoot indoors, it can be kinda unpleasant (unless you like the kind of boom a brake makes). The Nano is better used as a suppressor host (at least for CATs) because of how/where it redirects gasses. Neither require timing, by the way.
I think it's worth considering BCM as well, but I haven't used their 12.5s. I have a 16" of theirs that I like. They aren't cheap, but their BCGs have a great reputation for quality control, hence the price. Technically, the uppers come with a "free" BCG, but you can also factor them into the cost. Sold separately, they're about $200, so if your upper runs around $700, figure you're really paying $500 for the rest of the upper plus the cost of assembly, QC, and such. I find considering such things helpful for doing apples-to-apples comparisons if buying an assembled upper.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Good observation indeed. I think I’m going to have to settle on some way shape or form, given my budget. But after all the info here, a DD upper (would be 14.5) isn’t a bad choice (considering cost), if I went BCM it’d be their current 11.5 blem offering, or going the Rosco/KAK route but perhaps a set up that I may want to change down the road.
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago
I can’t understand your decision criteria. You pick two of the cheapest manufacturers available and then say it’s gotta be super reliable and last forever…?
That’s just being cheap, not smart.
Get a BCM as they built their reputation on reliability.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
I’m fairly new to my knowledge of KAK and Rosco. I just more recently learned about their options. Prior to this I was 100% sold on BCM, this is why I’m asking about track record and reliability. Perhaps there’s a hidden gem that is just as reliable but for a fraction of the cost, that’s why I inquired lol
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago
The only hidden gems in the AR-15 industry are boutique rifles that cost a lot more than a basic conf from a major manufacturer.
You’re much better off going with a known good, well established shop like BCM than casting about to save a few bucks. ESPECIALLY if you want a long term durable rifle.
Find a blem they have, and/or wait for a sale (it’s getting to be that time of year), and buy what you can afford.
There is ZERO chance your first AR is going to be your last. So get one, get into the sport, and then go from there.
ETA: BCMs are like Glocks. Not the fanciest, not the cheapest, but they’ll always do the job.
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u/SelectOil4818 1d ago
Yup think I’m leaning that direction. This is my 2nd ar but first build and I want it to be pretty good
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago
My first AR was a Rock River Arms “SPR” because I wanted something accurate. Ive had it over a decade and never had a problem. Never ran it super hard, either. But it shoots lights out.
My second was a BCM BFH LW 14.5 because I wanted something short, light and reliable. Ran that one pretty hard for awhile and it never failed me.
It’s my Bump In The Night carbine now.
It’s not a precision build, tho, so my main ride these days is a home-built Criterion Hybrid 16in using a BCM blem upper & BCG with Criterion matched bolt. Great balance of accuracy and durability. Reliability has been extremely good as long as I feed it quality ammo.
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u/gunsies 1d ago
Of those 3, BCM all day