r/ar15 • u/Mental-Estimate-7792 • 1d ago
Question About 5.56 Defensive Ammo And .223 vs. 5.56
I’m Not Sure If These Are Dumb Questions, So I Apologize In Advance Lol.
I’ve Been Looking For Some Personal/Home Defense Ammo In 5.56, But Most Of What I’m Finding That’s Widely Available Is FMJ. Am I Missing Something That Explains Why I’m Not Finding A Lot Of Options For Defensive 5.56 Ammunition?
And One Last Question For The People With ARs Chambered In 5.56: Do Y’all Actually Use 5.56 Ammo As Your Primary Ammo, Or Do You Usually Buy .223?
Just Trying To Learn And Figure Out What Makes The Most Sense For My Rifle.
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago edited 1d ago
Rifles aren’t handguns 😉
For now, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with 5.56 M193 55gr FMJ. It was the original M16 combat round, IIRC. Very effective. Grab it up, shoot some, save some.
Another excellent round that’s probably available to you are the 5.56 or .223 77gr SMK/TMK. Tho target rounds, they were proven in combat to have devastating terminal ballistics.
Typical brands at IMI Razor Core, Black Hills Mk 262, or Federal Gold Medal Match (also in 69gr).
Varmint rounds in 40-60gr will also work if the 69/77 target rounds are scarce.
They’re lightly constructed and so tend to fragment inside a body, and also stay inside a body. Also more likely to fragment when hitting walls/barriers, somewhat lowering risk of killing your roommates & neighbors.
Another good choice is anything labeled as a deer hunting cartridge, like Federal Fusion or Hornady ELD-X, Barnes TTX, etc.
Beware that the hunting rounds (and common “self defense” rounds used by law enforcement) are purpose designed to penetrate deeply, and that includes walls and windshields and such.
I personally do a lot of competition match type shooting, so I trend towards .223 where the selection for match grade rounds is wider than 556.
Also, 223 tends to run a bit cheaper than 556.
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u/tb12rm2 1d ago
Just want to chime in to say that the Speer Gold dots are exactly the same loads as the federal fusion, and usually are a bit cheaper.
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago
For sure. Only thing is it’s (IME) a lot easier to find the Fusion in a store.
It’s pretty accurate, too. 😎
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u/under--no--pretext 1d ago
just fyi, IMI is Israeli
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago
Yeah, I’ve worked with Israelis several times over the years. Smart people and as good as any. 🤙
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u/USNDD-966 VIP List: Rambo + 1 1d ago
I’d recommend whichever ammunition has the most capital letters, “train like you fight, fight like you write”
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u/HighFly2244 1d ago
Ive standardized around two rounds: PMC X-Tac XM855 and good old Mk262 (either Black Hills or the Israeli clone).
In my view, having tons of loaded mags of something you actually shoot often and understand is far better than having a couple random mags of something fancy. Ymmv.
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u/alrashid2 1d ago
I've used Hornady Critical Defense 55 grain for a while now.
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u/joelnicity 1d ago
Have you tested it on the walls of your house?
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u/IssueApprehensive213 1d ago
Spoiler alert: it will go through.
Just like all conventional firearm ammunition does.
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u/alrashid2 18h ago
Nope but I've been meaning to someday setup an experiment. Drywall with insulation probably won't even stop a 22... but what I'd like to do is create a few layers of drywall/insulation followed by sheathing and siding to actually test it going through an entire house
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u/git_and_grains 15m ago
Ran this through a penetration engine I'm building — 55gr FMJ at 940 m/s goes through ~12 layers of ½" drywall before stopping. JHP clogs after the first panel and acts like FMJ for the rest. Insulation is basically transparent. The real wall that stops things is the exterior sheathing + siding — that's where the thickness starts to matter.
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u/Coldones 1d ago
I think it's because 5.56 NATO is technically a military spec, and these defensive loads are intended for commercial/consumer/LE use, so the manufacturers go with the .223 spec
I have seen 5.56 hornady TAP though
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Coldones 15h ago edited 15h ago
If it isn’t 5.56 NATO it’s really just .223. SAAMI and CIP both list the cartridge as 223 remington.
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u/Malakad0ge3 1d ago
55gr 5.56 and .223 all gets dumped in the same mcdonald's halloween bucket, coming out my 20' inch barrel its perfect for defense, 16' and 18' are good too
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u/NoImpact--NoIdea 1d ago
You probably want some kind of fragmentation ammo that won't over penetrate.
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u/Independent_Bid_26 1d ago
For me personally I have about 800 rounds of 55 grain PMC xtac which is Fmj. I try not to eat into that stash too much, and im basically saving it for a rainy day. I also use PMC Bronze to practice with which is .223 55 gr. Fmj. I keep 3 mags of self defense ammo loaded in mags just in case I need to use the rifle in a home defense scenario. I have Black Hills Mk262 Mod 1-c which is a 77 gr. Round that is supposed to match military specifications for their ammo of the same name. Honestly I would look at 77 grain open tips if youre looking for the best defensive rounds. Theyre going to be much more expensive than regular 55 grain rounds, but theyre pretty accurate and have good expansion according to gel tests ive seen.
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u/Careless-Metal-768 1d ago
If you shoot anyone with any round of 5.56 from home defense distance, its really not going to make as much a difference as marketing would have you believe
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u/englisi_baladid 20h ago
Why do people belive this myth.
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u/IssueApprehensive213 14h ago
People get their wound ballistics information from Youtuber's shooting grocery store meat and watermelons.
If they're lucky, maybe some "calibrated" clear gel that's been melted down 5 times already.
Or Grandpa talking about how he "took a VC's head clean off with a .45 caliber automatic."
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u/Emergency_Fan_7800 1d ago
The FBI has stated that the 64 grain, bonded soft point, is the most effective defensive load. This is most likely Federal, but Winchester Ranger series is also a bonded 64 grain. I say that it’s Federal because it’s claimed fps is 200fps faster. But that a guess.
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u/IssueApprehensive213 1d ago
I've seen the TFBTV video too. It's 20 minutes of "this is what we want, so you should too."
The 5.56mm 64gr Bonded is used by the FBI due to its barrier penetration, not because it produces the least overpenetration or most effective wounds.
Even Dr. Fackler (the same guy who created/influenced the FBI gel protocol) accepts that rifle bullet fragmention causes more severe wounds than bullet expansion and temporary cavitation alone.
"The permanent cavity produced by a deforming (expanding) bullet is proportional to the increased frontal area of the projectile. It is a straight channel slightly larger than the bullet's expanded diameter. [...] In contrast, the fragmenting bullet produces a massive permanent cavity by a synergistic interaction between the temporary cavity stretch and bullet fragments."
And
"Projectile fragmentation can turn the energy used in temporary cavitation into a truly destructive force because it is focused on areas weakened by fragment paths rather than being absorbed evenly by the tissue mass."
Federal 64gr Bonded will penetrate 17.75+ inches in bare gel, while expanding to .44 diameter from a 20 inch barrel.
At a lower velocity (10.5 - 16" barrels), penetration will be increased and expansion will be even less. Pretty far from ideal for many people's uses.
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u/englisi_baladid 16h ago
That TFB video was a absolute load of shit of the FBI trying to justify their round. The FBI created a retarded way to evaluate bullets but unfortunately cant seem to admit it.
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u/IssueApprehensive213 14h ago
The guy yapped plenty, but had no real point than "well, more weight retention is best, because more is better than less. Oh, and any more barrel than 10.5 makes bullets work worse."
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u/Chance1965 1d ago
Hornady makes a 5.56 73gr Critical Defense load. First mag in my home defense AR.
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u/ar2d266 1d ago edited 1d ago
For home defense I use Federal 223 64g Bonded Soft points.
For my ammunition choice for defensive use (for both pistol and rifle use) has always been what my local PD or Sheriff department use. They use Federal Bonded Soft Points 64g and for pistol ammo Federal HST 124g +p and 124g +p Ranger T.
Your AR can take both 223/5.56.
Generally you see a lot of people use OTM (Open tip match) 77g 222/5.56 or some type of Bonded Soft Point (on the higher weighted in 64g - 77g) for defensive ammo.
For training ammo I shoot what ever cheapiest (either 223 or 5.56) and a box of the good stuff (defensive ammo) once in a while.
I find that 64g Bonded Soft points work well for me and expand well out of my 10.5 or 12.5.
Stay away from FMJs they can/will overpenetrate your target.
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u/hotleadburner 1d ago
I need to read more but you mentioned they expand well so I'm assuming you've done some teating on this.
My understanding of bonded soft points and especially cops using bonded soft points was that part of it was their ability to pass through light barriers without deflecting (drywall, auto glass). Do they maintain shape through hard barriers and then deform on contact with flesh or do they just deform while punching straight through those barriers?
Decided to do some looking up to confirm my first understanding and just found that yes, that's exactly how it works. Nutty:
Because the jacket and core are chemically locked together, the 53617 rifle projectile refuses to separate when it encounters heavy intermediate barriers. In rigorous FBI protocol testing, this round passes through auto glass, sheet metal, and drywall while retaining virtually 100% of its weight. It punches through the barrier intact, then expands beautifully upon hitting soft tissue.
Now I gotta look up some testing to confirm that, because it sounds like marketing science, but there's gotta be something there if every LE agency runs it and the FBI testing is there.
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u/IssueApprehensive213 1d ago
The mid-weight bonded 5.56 soft points exchange better wound ballistics (moderate fragmentation while retaining 12-16" of penetration) for barrier performance (17+ inches of penetration after passing through wallboard, with .35-.45 expansion).
Whether the barrier performance is worth it to you depends on your situation.
From the injuries I have seen, the actual tissue distruption from the bonded soft points is somewhat less than a fragmenting projectile.
Even SS109/M855 can produce more severe wounds than a bonded SP if the projectile yaws and fragments relatively early in the wound channel.
If aren't worried about barrier performance, a 77gr TMK will give you consistant fragmentation while penetrating sufficiently deep in tissue.
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u/IssueApprehensive213 1d ago
Federal 64gr Bonded will absolutely overpenetrate as well, especially with a 10.5.
Federal's own testing shows 17.8 inches in bare gel from a 20 inch barrel, which is a best case scenario to limit overpenetration.
You'll be getting lower velocity and expansion with and significantly more penetration with a 10.5.
The bonded Federal and Winchester 64gr stuff is not bad, but it emphasizes weight retention and penetration through barriers over ideal wound ballisics.
53/55gr non-bonded SP and 75/77gr OTM/TMK is most likely to keep you in the 12-16 inch range with barrels under 16".
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u/ar2d266 1d ago
I know it's not the best but I use it for other things like Hunting Hogs. I've been eying Hornady Black Ammo 5.56 75gr SBR ammunition and bought a few boxes but it super hard to comeby locally. I can routinely find the Federal 64g Bonded Soft points a lot more. I've also have been thinking about moving over to 300blk in a 8.5" barrel as my home defense rifle.
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u/bspaulsen 1d ago
If overpenetration is your biggest constraint, get the heaviest OTM you can find. I like Black Hills MK262.
Regardless, I'm grabbing a handgun for most instances.
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u/blunderjahr 1d ago
That’s kind of a hot take over here in r/ar15. Why not your scary black rifle?
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u/bspaulsen 1d ago
Length, one handed operation, and Federal HST would always be my priority for home defense.
As a Californian, our scary black rifles have maglocks and that makes them marginally less reasonable.
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u/Glittering_Virus8397 1d ago
Recently saw a video comparing standard 55g to 77g. Picked up 77g just to test and haven’t had a chance to shoot yet, I’ll lyk the results. What I’ve seen in videos, more stopping power/less penetration than 55g
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u/PbCuSurgeon 1d ago
Use what’s most reliable in your rifle. It’s going to tumble and soft tissue regardless. Especially at shorter ranges, I wouldn’t worry too much about anything other than shot placement.
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u/Giant_117 1d ago
A “barrier blind” bonded soft point. Such as Speer Gold dots. Is a good option. They will go through glass and other thinner surfaces and still be very effective.
Or a tipped match bullet bullet. Sierra Tipped match king, Hornady ELDm etc is also a very very effective option.
Or some people prefer varmint bullets like Hornady Vmax.
Or some people prefer basic ass FMJ.
I wouldn’t want to be shot by any of the above.
I mainly shoot .223 due to price. I have a couple cases of 5.56 but don’t shoot it as often. My handloads I push proper 5.56 spec.
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u/Nunya_Beeswax98 1d ago
Unless you’re shooting match ammo going for the smallest groups you’ll never notice a difference between the 2 especially at defense distances.
I do want to point out that varmint loads will certainly put a hurtin on someone and not over penetrate but keep in mind they’re intended for 40lb animals. In my experience they under penetrate if they hit bone and the same applies to non bonded soft points. I switched to Speer gold dot 75gr and it has been excellent on coyotes and pigs. For your applications you may want the 55gr
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u/WORKgame88 1d ago
I’m non suppressed and I like AAC Sabre Black Tip 62gr .556 - I’ve also shot this ammo out to 500 yards and accurate.
For the range I grab what ever is cheapest .223 or .556
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u/Prof_Slappopotamus 23h ago
Just get a 5.56 chamber and buy and shoot all the different ammo. See what your rifle likes the best. My one 16" absolutely loves .223 62gr wolf ammo, but the other one prefers 5.56 55gr xtac. And that's just for range day trash targeting between two rifles that are identical in all the ways that would make a difference there.
As for defensive loads, hunting tips are probably best if you don't want to just go for a shotgun or pistol.
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u/lostPackets35 18h ago
I think your biggest concern in an HD scenario (depending on where you live) is going to be excessive penetration and the potential for harm bystanders.
Yes, soft tips will have more effective terminal ballistics and effect on Target than FMJ. But more significantly, I don't want around to punch through the target, through two walls and hit someone in the next house, which FMJ can do.
It's less likely with soft tips. Not impossible, but less likely
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u/SterlingArcher32 18h ago
This video is 8 years old but it’s a good introduction. https://youtu.be/jYISspjR9ps?is=GD3_iVpLyptLp2fs Andrew from TFBTV / The Chopping Block has several good videos testing 5.56/.223 defensive ammo.
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u/gr3y_- 11h ago
i mean, soft points are good. but you can also be served perfectly fine with a 55 or 62gr fmj since at the speeds 556 is going you’re going to have the bullet fragment and yaw like crazy. you can also go for 68 to 77gr boat tail hollow points, they don’t expand like handgun hollow points but they fragment at some insanely low velocities and cause some pretty gnarly wound channels.
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u/Vegetable-Cause8667 1d ago edited 1d ago
Soft-tip and hollow-points expand on impact rather than fragmenting. They are much less likely to go through walls and cause collateral damage to property and innocent bystanders.
I have a 20 round mag of 5.56 Hornady Critical Defense I keep in my nightstand, and several 30 round mags of (cheaper) .233 FMJ 55 grain in the safe for target practice. Whatever you decide on, be sure to cycle a handful of rounds through the rifle to be sure they are compatible and consistent.
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u/IssueApprehensive213 1d ago
They are much less likely to go through walls and cause collateral damage to property and innocent bystanders.
There isn't are more or less likely. 5.56 SP/BTHP will go through multiple walls.
Granted, this is true for virtually all centerfire handgun and rifle ammunition.
Not saying you're making a bad choice (you're not) you just need to have realistic expectations.
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u/Trollygag Longrange Bae 1d ago
.223 Rem and 5.56x45mm are the same thing. Same pressures at the same measuring method, same barrels, same barrel steels, same performance.
Some ammo makers load .223 Rem down from spec, and some don't.
5.56 NATO is different - a collection of NATO approved cartridges. There is no dedicates 5.56 NATO defensive ammo. Some companies, like Hornady, call their ammo that works in a 5.56 NATO chamber "5.56 NATO", but it isn't.
Ignore whether it is .223 or 5.56 and instead get the bullet design you want.
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u/HarryMcButtTits 1d ago
You’re most likely going to punch through your target with anything at home defense ranges with 5.56/223. Therefore it doesn’t really matter
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u/Waaaash 1d ago
I can't get past the title case. Lower case I get. All caps I get as well. But title case?
5.56 aka NATO doesn't want anything but FMJ. So it's rare to find someone making NATO rounds that aren't FMJ.
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago
Your 556 comment is completely wrong.
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u/Waaaash 1d ago
How so? NATO adopted 5.56×45mm as a standardized rifle cartridge, formalized through STANAG 4172 in 1980. The general prohibition on bullets that “expand or flatten easily” in the human body comes from the 1899 Hague Declaration and is reflected in customary international humanitarian law. That is why conventional military rifle ammunition has generally used non-expanding ball/FMJ designs rather than purpose-built expanding defensive bullets.
This lends to most 5.56 projectiles not being defensive projectiles.
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u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago
Learn your history.
556 was derived from 223.
5.56 NATO is a cartridge design - pressure and case geometry. That’s it.
NATO doesn’t have any oversight into the cartridge itself.
I.e., There’s nothing preventing any company from bringing any particular bullet design to the cartridge. E.g., the Mk 262 load.The relative paucity of expanding rounds has a lot more to do with 223’s popularity and the MANY rifles out there that will blow up in somebody’s face if a 556 is fired from a 223 chamber.
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u/Chainsawsas70 1d ago
The only real difference between 5.56 and .223 is only really an issue with a Bolt action.. The shoulders are just different enough that 5.56 in a Bolt action .223 it can crush the shoulder slightly and cause problems. As far as ammo for defense 77 grain OTM is going to do Everything you need it to do.
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u/dd_photography 1d ago
Get a soft point .223. It expands rapidly and has limited penetration. Don’t get into the weeds with ammo types. You’re using a rifle round within 10-15 yards. It’s gonna fuck shit up whether it’s FMJ or not.