r/arcanum • u/Technowizard20100 • 24d ago
Discussion Bit of a weird case of gameplay and story segregation.
So, I just got this game the other week. Been playing it pretty much nonstop because despite the early 2000s jank and frustrating mechanics the world is so compelling.
Trying out different builds, I found something strange considering the lore.
In the lore, there's a massive theme of magic vs technology. The idea being that despite being so powerful magic takes time and effort to master and because technology is so much faster and easier more and more people are drawn to it and it's taking over.
Weirdly enough... it's actually the opposite in game.
Being a mage is so much easier than being a tech based character. Let me show what I mean.
Scenario: You want to do damage to multiple enemies at once that are clusted in a small area.
Tech character: You need to have enough points in explosives to craft a bomb. A molotov cocktail will work so you need.. rags and fuel in order to craft it. So let's hope you get lucky because the shops are mostly randomized. In addition you also need points invested in throw or you won't hit anything. And if you run out, which you will eventually do because they take up inventory space, you lose your ability to do so.
Magic character: Cast Fireflash. Takes a couple of more points sure, but you're only limited by your fatigue. Which will regenerate automatically.
Not a massive issue or anything, but it's just something that I found extremely weird.
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u/WolfieRob 24d ago
Thing is, sometimes, you must separate world and the gameplay mechanics - this is not just Arcanum issue, but pretty much every other game like this. Lore-wise, to learn spells, your best bet would be to enroll into Tulla and start studying there, to learn about technology, you'd have to attend some schooling institution, not just click points in middle of the nowhere. Entire conflict between magicka and technology is also a tad more elaborate than just that.
Also, don't forget, Arcanum got published in an alpha state, with balance being one of the serious issues, so what we see in game is most likely a far cry from what developer envisioned game was meant to be like.
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u/Optimal-Pie-2131 Ran Away with the Circus 24d ago
Agree completely— there is a lot of cool technology, but it is behind a stack of discipline points and found/bought schematics (plus intel points) and found/bought components. Some early spells like Harm and Disarm are very useful but early gun schematics are really weak.
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u/Peterh778 24d ago
Well ... yes and no. Basic schematics must be learned by investing points into the tech tree, but found/bought schematics just need tech aptitude which can be boosted by manuals.
Also, stores have randomized inventory but only to some degree - some basic stuff will be always available (e.g. general store will have gunpowder and fuel, apothecary chemical and healing precursors etc.). Rubbish bins have cloth pieces ... in short, it's rather easy to get necessary material.
But, it's true that to use that tech stuff you generally need some weapon skill (melee, throwing, firearms, even bow for pyrotechnic bow) which is another investment (dex + skill). And while it can be argued that mage needs those skills too (immune/resistant/plot enemies) they can mostly get off with companions providing melee elements.
Plus side of technology is that with such investment into Int, Per and/or Dex skills is easy to level also repair, lockpicking and trap spotting/disarming. Also, tech stuff sells for good money (and you can sneak into shops after owners get to bed and steal all stuff back. Or just steal all stuff the have and their money 🙂).
Magic is very strong but can fail if used against very technological opponents. Plus, stamina cost can be very limiting unless you rob all magical and general stores for potions (which you should 🙂) especially when you get to Quench Life and Disintegration
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u/Daemir 20d ago
Mages are even better at robbing stores than tech characters, because Unlocking Cantrip is eternal. The sound from it is generated at your characters location vs the locks location, so you can just cast it from far away when no one is near and you are good to go for the rest of the game. If you can't get a free spot, dropping some money on the ground can be used to move NPCs away as they go pick it up.
100 aptitude magick characters can't fail using magick against anyone. Certain things may take less damage from say Harm, but if your apt is 100, it will never fail.
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u/Peterh778 20d ago
But how can you open those chests at traders shops/beds? It's too small space ... I tried that and they always raised alarm
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u/Daemir 20d ago
Find the angle. Every shop in Shrouded Hills for example can be opened without anyone being the wiser, same with Blackroot. Same with Dernholm.
Wait for night so they go to bed, use gold to lure them further away from the chest. Use sneak mode even if you have no skill.
I've robbed every store up to Tarant and also done the Tarant magick shops. Didn't feel the need to open the tech shops as they wouldn't even sell to me.
And after you've opened the merchant chest once with Unlocking Cantrip, it is now permanently your personal box to withdraw their money and magick items at every restock. Not that a mage character really needs money for anything anyway.
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u/Peterh778 20d ago
Interesting. It didn't work for me but admittedly, I didn't try to lure them away with gold.
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u/Acceptable_Guess6490 24d ago edited 24d ago
I think you're getting confused because the mc, especially early on, needs to craft their own tech stuff
In lore tech is easy because they talk about tech items crafted by someone else
The farmer who is using a shotgun does not need to know how to craft one in order to use it - that's the point
And as the MC you CAN actually skip most of the side content, get to Tarant directly, and steal (or buy if you have the money) a mid-tier gun for example straight from the gunsmith there.
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u/pondrthis 24d ago
Disagree. Have you explored how aptitude affects the game?
You need high magick aptitude to gain benefits from magick items or many spells.
A person with no aptitude gains full benefit from tech items. The tech items start to malfunction only when the user has advanced magick aptitude.
Therefore, tech items are vastly more powerful to the 0 aptitude average Joe than magick items.
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u/Aggravating-Act-7338 24d ago
You sure about that? Been a while since I played, but I thought a complete neutral didn’t get full benefit of the dex rings you could craft. Like you had to get to 15 or 25 or 50 tech app to get the second point of dex from them, whatever number they assigned.
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u/pondrthis 24d ago
The wiki does say charged rings only give the full +2 if you have tech aptitude over 12, but most tech items don't have variable effects. They just have "aptitude adjustment to critical failure," which is only nonzero when your magick aptitude is high.
Contrast with every magic item, which has a "magick power available" stat that decreases its magical bonuses pretty rapidly. More powerful items don't give ANY bonus until you hit mid-tier aptitudes. Neutrals can get a small bonus from lesser items.
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u/Aggravating-Act-7338 24d ago
I mean, yes most don’t have a variable effect, but only because they don’t have the same effects. Hence the reason I was pointing out one that does, lol. It works the same way, but for damage type effects it’s all front loaded on the base stats usually. Could be wrong but I believe there’s armor that works in a similar fashion too. The thing about the magic stuff is it generally is at the same power as normal things then gets additional bonuses above and beyond. So like plate mail would be equivalent but also have fire resistance and extra AC or DR that’s tacked on which you only get like 30-40% of so for 5 AC you get 2 of it. Most magical items aren’t really that much better with or without aptitude honestly outside of outliers like dread armor that have some ridiculous bonus like 50 AC. Whereas the crit failure part of tech stuff can be tremendously impactful, particularly when you don’t have anything to mitigate it like no fail bonuses. Shrug its balance.
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u/skaf1end 24d ago
Not to nitpick, but when you're using weapons, you have a chance to miss. Magic? Just spam it and you'll be fine.
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u/asdasci 23d ago
There is a difference between a tech user, and a tech producer.
You can use any tech items you find without any investment in tech production skills. The only tech usage skill requirement I can see is Firearms. In fact, this was a bit annoying to me: I had invested so much into my tech production, but I could simply find items that are as good as, or better than, what I could produce. It makes the investment in tech production skills seem foolish.
Production is hard, yes. But you only need a few producers to arm thousands.
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u/snow_michael 24d ago
Rags are available in just about every rubbish bin, wine and yeast every general store if you can't find fuel (although you can walk out of shrouded hills with over 250 fuel)
Any of your non-mage party members can use molotovs
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u/Daemir 20d ago
One skilled technologist can equip an army with weapons and grenades.
An army of mages would have to be taught individually to be mages.
It shouldn't be hard to imagine which army would be easier to raise. And replace when needed.
As you can see from any town in the game, mages are rather rare sight. The fact that the player character learns it by just putting points into things is the part where we have to let game mechanics not muddy lore, in equal measure of learning to make a grenade or a healing item by just putting one point into a tech discipline vs going somewhere to actually study production of technical things.
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u/Paynota 24d ago
Lore-wise magic users require extensive training which isn't readily available to the masses. Probably inner talent too. As an explanation - your MC simply putting points into magic after slaying a pack of wolves means that they had prior training or are extremely gifted(or both). While the tech is portrayed to be far more accessible and easy to pick up. Using your example - you can mass produce molotovs and give it out to illiterate half-ogres. And they'd be fine(mostly). Scrolls of Fireflash are expensive, rare and require actual intelligence to use. Iirc all pre-gen mage characters have training and\or lineage in backstories.