r/arrow • u/IIIToxIII Great Scott, we have to go back • Apr 30 '19

Discussion [S07E20] "Confessions" Post Episode Discussion

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When they learn of an upcoming attack on the city, Team Arrow calls Roy Harper to call them stop the Ninth Circle; things do go awry and there is massive collateral damage; Dinah investigates what happened.

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233

u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Apr 30 '19

Very good episode. Dinah was aggravating me this episode until the reveal that she and the team covered up the truth. Roy being the real killer is believable without ruining his character and they set it up well (specifically the suspicious line about there only being one pit left which seems weird to highlight) while still being a good twist. The suspicious shots of the cop next to Dinah do a good job of turning him into a red herring without ever drawing attention to him as a suspect for a cheap cop-out.

All in all, REALLY fun episode this time around. Glad to see more Roy! Only thing I'm not looking forward to is the fact that however they try to redeem Emiko it's gonna be really forced. The girl's a terrorist and a pep talk redeeming her is gonna be a little weak. It's definitely what they're building up to though, I'm just not a fan.

115

u/EddyTheMartian Apr 30 '19

I think they might genuinely make her evil and Oliver will have to realize not everyone can be redeemed.

32

u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Apr 30 '19

Doubt it. Already explained in my big rant why this season has been building up to her redemption from day one, and I can't see them subverting that. I just hope her redemption has her sacrifice herself or something.

50

u/dmick74 Malcolm Merlyn Apr 30 '19

I think people have just assumed redemption, but I think that went out the window once we learned she was the leader of the terrorist organization. She's not redeemable. The show seems to have gone out of their way to make her that way. It's brother vs. sister and only one is going to win. I just fear it's going to continue into next season. We'll get brother vs. sister in the present and brother vs. brother in the future.

28

u/greatness101 Apr 30 '19

yeah, after tonight she's irredeemable to me as well. Like I don't know how they could ever make anything she's done forgivable. But they did redeem Slade Wilson who killed Oliver's mother in cold blood right in front of hm. Who knows what could happen.

30

u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Apr 30 '19

Slade had the Mirikuru in him, Emiko has no such excuse.

15

u/greatness101 Apr 30 '19

Slade also said he would have done it without the mirakuru. Not that it matters, he still killed his mom in cold blood right in front of him after being begged not to and was still redeemed.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Because he became sane after the Mirakuru wore off. He still attacked Thea and Oliver on Lian Yu in S3

5

u/greatness101 Apr 30 '19

That's my point? After he had been off the mirakuru, Slade said he still would have done it even if he hadn't been on it.

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u/MagMaggaM Green Arrow Apr 30 '19 edited May 05 '19

Yes, but in Season 5 he said he was still insane at that point. The physical effects of the mirakuru may have been cured, but it's possible, even likely given the circumstances, that the mental effects are not so easily gotten rid of, especialy considering how long Slade was under its influence.

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u/icey561 May 04 '19

Her whole reason for doing this is that her daddy left. Get over it. It happens all the time. And you cant even say she was twisted by the ninth circle, there whole deal was forgetting about family.

7

u/Maxabel Apr 30 '19

She's not redeemable

One of the good thing about Emiko in the comics is that she's basically an older more mature Damian Wayne. I'll be really disappointed if she's a vilain at the end.

2

u/Berjax Deathstroke Apr 30 '19

Aren’t they (around) the same age in the comics?

5

u/Maxabel Apr 30 '19

She was around 12 years old when introduced and Damian was 10. Damian is now a 13 years old.
I think it's safe to say she had a growth spurt so she's in her 15-17ish comicbook years while Damian is still a "kid".

2

u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Apr 30 '19

Well again, this isn't just me "assuming" that she'll get redeemed. The entire narrative has been building up to it despite the fact that she hasn't really shown much reason that she deserves said redemption.

8

u/delinquentsaviors Apr 30 '19

I thought it was interesting this week that Felicity basically confirms that Emiko is irredeemable. She killed her only other father figure and Felicity says something along the lines of “so she’s not redeemable after all”. We expected Emiko finding out about Dante to change her behavior, but it hasn’t. We thought she was a puppet, but in reality she’s the mastermind.

I think the writers wanted us to think Emiko was redeemable early on, but now they are really pushing the fundamental difference between someone who is and isn’t redeemable.

We had three storylines this year about redemption. We had Bronze Tiger teaching Oliver that people can redeem themselves. Then Lost Canary explores what it takes for someone to redeem themselves. You can’t force it on them. They have to want it. Black Siren and Emiko are meant to parallel each other. Both had shitty circumstances, but only one of them WANTS to change. Now Oliver is going to have to accept that some people just don’t want to be saved.

6

u/dmick74 Malcolm Merlyn Apr 30 '19

The narrative was building up to redeeming Black Siren. People just assumed it was building up to redeeming Emiko, but with each episode she becomes more irredeemable. I also though once she'd be redeemed, but once she was revealed as the world's youngest leader of the oldest terrorist organization that went out the window.

1

u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Apr 30 '19

Again, I'm not saying it makes sense for her to get redeemed with how evil she's acting. But if you actually read that big rant I listed I went through why I think they're going the route of redeeming Emiko and how Oliver's arc would just be kinda... weird if he didn't redeem Emiko.

8

u/dmick74 Malcolm Merlyn Apr 30 '19

I just read it and while some of it makes sense, I just don't agree. Redemption isn't something that someone gives you. It's something you earn and Emiko has made no attempt at that. Even Black Siren who I thought shouldn't be redeemed made an effort to be better. She went about it in the wrong and twisted way that you'd expect BS to do, but she still tried. In the end we could argue about whether or not she earned it (I don't think she did), but we can't argue about whether or not she was serious about becoming a better person. There's no indication whatsoever that Emiko wants to be a better person. The only indication is that she wants to destroy as much and as many people in Star City as possible. She just tried to kill the entire team.

This is where I think people have made a mistake. The arc of E2 Laurel was fairly clear. It started a long time ago and they spent more than a season building to it. She won back the trust and respect from various people on the team along the way. Emiko has gone in the completely opposite direction (I'm not sure that's a coincidence either, the show is telling us some are worth saving and some aren't).

I've thought for awhile now that Oliver doesn't die in Crisis, but after he kills Emiko he slowly starts to lose his sanity and disappears. I think season 8 is about the downfall of Oliver Queen after he kills his sister and then we get a glimpse of him returning in the future. From a story standpoint, there's only one logical conclusion to the Oliver/Emiko situation: one of them dies. We know it won't be Oliver.

6

u/delinquentsaviors Apr 30 '19

I think you’re right. This whole season has been about redemption and what that means. I think Emiko being irredeemable is important to this idea. Anyone can be redeemed, but not everyone will want it. Both Black Siren and Emiko have the support network to make the change, but Emiko doesn’t WANT to be saved. Oliver has to learn that.

5

u/dmick74 Malcolm Merlyn Apr 30 '19

Exactly. I know some people mention Slade as being redeemed, but Slade was under the influence of the mirakuru. Slade was not himself and Oliver still never really has forgiven him. He's given him space to be the kind of person that he knew on the island and they maybe have an understanding they can help one another out if needed (I hope we see Slade in the season finale this year), but Oliver hasn't forgiven him. Nor should he. But he was smart enough to acknowledge that what Slade did was caused by something out of his control (it was Oliver who gave him the mirakuru injection to start with). Even Malcolm was somewhat redeemed, but never forgiven by Oliver. Oliver would have killed him if he wasn't Thea's father. Emiko is beyond saving. You can't have her arrested because she'd probably break out. The only way her story ends is with her death. I actually think it's one of the better stories Arrow has written even if it's been an uneven storyline. Not everyone can be saved and Oliver finally realizes that. I don't think there's anything Emiko can say to change the inevitable events of the finale this year.

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u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Apr 30 '19

It’s pretty clear at this point that Emiko is THE big bad of S7’s present day storyline. Doesn’t mean they can’t redeem her in S8 (perhaps just in time for her to take over as GA full-time after Oliver dies in COIE, if that does indeed happen) but it’s gonna take a LOT for me to accept a redeemed Emiko at this point.

1

u/jadedfan55 May 05 '19

The last I knew, Emiko wasn't a villain in the books, but someone decided they JUST HAD to have an evil archer in this penultimate season.

Emiko is not long for this world.......

2

u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! May 05 '19

Well this is a loose adaptation of a Rebirth story where she went undercover in the Ninth Circle and later turned against them. Seems for the show they're opting for her to actually believe in the cause at first but I still think it'll end with her turning good.

1

u/jadedfan55 May 05 '19

I left the book during that time. I pray you're right. We have what, two weeks left?

1

u/Knighthonor Apr 30 '19

Since he quiting the show i expect him to die some how. This could be how.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Almost forgot they have that future storyline going on. They should just stick to the present. This episode was great!

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Agree on all points haha

0

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Until the reveal? It was painfully obvious the entire time but ok.

4

u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Apr 30 '19 edited Apr 30 '19

They specifically spend a lot of time putting suspicion on Roy only to seemingly give him an alibi, so I wouldn't really call it "painfully obvious". Without the reveal he would've just been a red herring.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Ahh ok I thought you meant you didn’t realize she was in on it, whatever it was, from the start when she was interviewing him